russianlayout

But that is the same for my actors, they are insured the moment they go from my theatre to a outside venue somewhere, and they lot more expensive (well some are) just still wondering if another insurance comp can put a sim package forward for less for exhibitions.

Just got the quote for an exhibition with £48000 worth of layouts for £132, which for each exhibition I run, we fork out that or more for and it got me thinking. That actually is very high for the insurance risk and their is little or no competitor quotes. Example I run high risk business for insurance purposes, a theatre where we have actors who can trip, audiences who can fall over, a full theatre bar with all the hazards of that, lights, lots of things that can go bang if they are not watched and also we do large external outdoor events like Shakespeare in the Park, and our yearly £5 million public liability and employers insurance is £322 per year and it includes theft and all contents. At model rail shows, any damaged caused by say burst pipes, fire etc which isn't the fault of the layout will be covered by the venue's insurance as would any accident on the public on the premises if it was not directly caused by the layouts or event. Traders have their own public liability insurance and stock insurance, Caterers have their public liability insurance or is covered if the caterer in house holds a hygine certificate as part of the public liability standard clause. So the actual risk to £48000 worth of layouts for insurance purposes is low. My insurance company said if we owned the £48000 worth of layouts, our insurance would cover us for the whole show with no extra premium on what we pay per year and advised us to look around at general trade show insurance which may be cheaper. Just wondering, their must be people working in insurance here or those that calculate the risks in insurance, has any claims been made on insurance in the last few years on exhibition policies by exhibitors or exhibition managers, as it does seem a low risk policy. Surely with little risk on the whole £48000 etc, more like a claim for individual layout, someone in insurance can get their company to look at the risks and set a better premium. Just putting it out there!

The Bish above also runs a show in SE London and he checks with local clubs and with us in the past so that the show he runs does not impact on others, That is how it should be. I won't put a show on the same time as the one he runs in Lee. Mostly because in will end in a fight on who gets Colin Snowdens excellent layouts.

That's right, as it does undermine a show I am running on the same day. I pulled a major showstopper layout at Bexley as it is pre booked I found out for Erith Model rail show in Jan, and played by some sort of understanding over not competing with other shows and not putting same layouts out there as other shows locally. Also asked another exhibitor to change the layout as he wanted to bring same to both our show and Erith. Knockholt had a date and they decided to change it to a date which will effect both shows for people around the middle catchment area, reason I know as many from that area came to our Sevenoaks show. The connections you mention are not mentioned on the website for the event just they are event organisers. I am a assoc member of Southwark MRC , Selkent MRC and the OO gauge Association, so what! just means we like model railways. I would be surprised if any show organsiser anywhere in the UK does not have a connection to model railways in some form. I made a point of not doing this show on the date they had, however they had no problem trying to directly compete with us bu putting it on on the date we had our show. I already understand the concerns expressed by others, as have had numerous people state it is not right commercial shows operate, hence why when I do commercial shows, I do them so they dont compete with club shows or hinder anyone going to another show. However this one is a club show I am running and if it were me, doing one of my commercial shows, i wouldn't dare do it so close to another show with the same catchment area. Also when I run my commercial shows, I admit they are commercial from the off and say it is run by The London Theatre,ltd, some then say they dont do commercial shows, most exhibitors don't care, Many show attendees care as we see from this tread so at what stage would i have been told the Knockholt show was commercial, when they invited me it doesn't mention it on their website, are they doing it for fun or he works for a charity, so all the funds go there. I have 6 more trade spaces to fill, bring it up to 18 traders, meaning each trader will cover the cost of a layout, so can go up to 20 layouts and make more income for the club. Now I am competing with a two day local show, which on paper sounds better option, so am going to have traders go there instead, they have 15 already according to there event listing. If they are sending me requests to exhibit at their show to improve on their achievements last year, means some exhibitors /traders will take that at face value, However they could not cover the £60 for a major showstopper layout last year, so with my commercial hat on, I will have to now compete for traders, exhibitors and attendees to my show, so that the MRC gets a profit and yes as they decided to knowingly organise a show in competition with another with same part catchment area, then yes that is a threat, No one has the right to stop a show but I thought everyone here doing shows, be it clubs/ charities or commercial followed some sort of etiquette, Also on this thread, I have denounced Dekota for his previous actions, which he has, now looks like changed and taken away the club status, and that was someone who is a client of mine ie a trader who gives me money to trade at my shows. So please don't say that I am only concerned solely as it has an impact on my club show, if someone isn't playing fairly, I will say it. Dekota's actions did not bode well for other commercial shows, so stated what is was doing was wrong, that would have had commercial implications on me if he stopped hiring trade space or I felt I could not accept the hire anymore. Why did the Knockholt event send me something stating one thing, ie improve on their achievements, and wanting my layouts as part of it, no mention it is commercial and no mention what money goes to charity, although they state they supported the charity last year. when I know they couldn't pay costs last year to one exhibitor I know. so how could they have money to give to a charity. I don't even have a gripe that they do a show , within 2 miles of our Sevenoaks show as it is 6 months apart, in fact same people prob go to both, I do have a gripe if a show changes its date to hinder our numbers in traders and attendees, same gripe if say Southwark MRC decided to put a show on in Blackheath, the same day as us as will be taking from same catchment area.

The Club I am part of got approached by a pretend model railway club to exhibit at their show, Anyone find any club records on here of the Modelfest Club in Knockholt. They run a show at a garden centre. We politely refused as my personal layouts were at Sevenoaks in July and also at our show in Bexley in Dec and didn't think it would help them or us having layouts shown so close to other exhibitions and locations. Sevenoaks Show was a commercial show and well documented as being, I know as I ran it, the Bexley show is to raise money for a our new club and running costs which I am a part of. I know as I helping run it. I would have thought that after the Dibden saga no one would again try and run an exhibition commercially using a fake club name as a front. Double annoyed as they obviously not playing fair, ie we as a commercial show in Sevenoaks have another show in the same vicinity pretending not to be commercial, and this pretend club have moved their exhibition date to the same date as the Bexley show and so the draw of people we might have got from Orpington/ Dartford Bromley will poss now go to that show. They were originally doing it a few weeks before. One thing Dibden never did was start up a show to compete with another show in the area and at the same time. My yearly Sevenoaks show - always held on the same weekend in July when no other shows in the very wide area and run as commercial shows with commercial staffing and money goes to my theatre as part of its profits Our clubs Bexley Show - chosen as nothing else that weekend in area apart from one in Manchester and all money goes to the model railway club on ticket sales and run by volunteers apart from the catering, which remains commercial. We actually saw the original weekend the Knockholt venue were doing, so not to compete with them, did not run our show on that date. Can I openly ask the organiser of this show, is it commercial, as there is no Modelfest club, and you are as it states event organisers. When I run a commercial model railway show, I only repeat it if it made a profit the year before, I also have money pre pigioned holed for all expenses, before the show begins, however I have spoken to a exhibitor at your last years show, who is at our Bexley show who states they won't do your show again they were not given the agreed expenses as you stated you did not make enough to cover the agreed amount. They had expenes at our show of £60, so would have been about the same for your show as same distance travelled and it was a major showstopping layout. If you made such a loss on the show, how can you say that money raised will go to a named charity, if the same thing happens again. How much went to the charity last year,which you are supporting this year again surely expenses agreed to exhibitors should be taken off first. If you didnt have enough money to pay the expenses, that means the charity would have got no money last year? or did you instead give the expenses money to the charity If you are commercial, what percentage of profits go to the charity, or is it done on say 50p of every ticket sold, or maybe the way we did it two years ago and separate our commercial income to charity income and have a raffle where all that money went to the charity minus £18 for the ticket printing. This is what you sent us, again can you explain if last year was a success, why did you not have the funds to pay expenses at the agreed rate to a exhibitor, how many exhibitors got their full expenses and how many wish to return this year? email reads: I saw details of your new club on Facebook and wondered if you'd like to promote your new venture and bring a layout to our show? Last December we staged the first Garden of England Model Fest with an excellent range of excellent layouts and other models drawn together from clubs and individuals from Kent and SE London. We are going to be staging a further show this November and l have the pleasure of making a formal invitation to the club to bring a layout to the show. The event being held on 19th & 20th November 2016. Once again supporting the work of Demelza Hospice Care for Children. Please see attached for full details. We want to build on what we achieved last year to make the event bigger and better. We’d love have you with us. The venue is again the purpose built display area at Coolings Garden Centre (http://www.coolings.co.uk/) at Knockholt Kent (just of Jct 4 M25) Attached is a full information. Reason I want to know is as mentioned on this tread, I have had stick from people on here in the past as they don't like the fact I run a exhibition for profit, that is fine and in return I have always admitted it and get exhibitors returning to my shows as we hopefully have a well run event for them to be part of. We made a profit at one show in New Cross two years ago and last year although making a profit, it was down on what we wanted, so we stopped doing that show and venue. Our Sevenoaks shows make profits. The Bexley Show hopefully will make a profit for the club. , The expenses are covered by the trade stand hire, which is prepaid, so I know the club has the money to pay the exhibitors. The club hasn't the money yet to pay the venue hire and flyers, banners etc, so I have covered that for them, well my company has. Simple option is to just put the show on myself and take the profits. Instead I have agreed to risk the hire fee which the club must pay back and the cost of flyers etc. To limit the risk and get a partial return, the theatre runs the catering and the profits go to the theatre. The stewards, front of house staff will be volunteers from the club, catering staff are salaried. Once the club takes the cost of the hire fee in ticket sales, they keep all the money. If they dont make the full hire fee, they dont have to pay the extra to cover it as hopefully the catering side will. £610 of trade space booked and £420 expenses for exhibitors, so already they are up and paid off part of the venue hire debt. (the flyer and banner printing part of it anyway). If Erith MRC still used a venue which is 1.4 miles from our venue in Welling, I would not put a show in Welling as it isn't fair, even commercially and defo not via our MRC. Same reason I would not put a show on in Welling the same weekend as their show in Dartford, as I would be an idiot to compete with them and basically, an unwritten agreement you dont. At last years New Cross Show I even had talks with the nearest show which was 34 miles away and not even in London, and we agreed people could easy get to both if they wanted, hardly likely unless a real die hard. Erith MRC have moved out of London now for their shows, we always invite them to exhibit, they always don't have the members to do it, but we ask them out of courtesy. As now no show in this area and actually competing with myself with any show I do in the local boroughs again, When we started New Cross, we first checked that no shows were in the area and got the local MRC on board (Southwark) as they could not afford to finance their own show. If you were a MRC I would maybe say, OK you made a loss, many MRC do when they put on shows. the none payment of full expenses can sort of be justified, via bad account/show management. However, you are not, you are like me, on some of my shows, doing it for profit and so then play fair and admit you didn't achieve what you wanted at last years show and couldn't cover agreed expenses. As layouts and traders now have two shows to consider, both with the same middle catchment areas, I know our club may lose some traders to your show and also some layouts we might want, may be committed to your show. Traders make own decision based on risk, but exhibitors, please be clean with them over last years show. How can you afford the costs of running this years show and not have made provision to at least paying money owed to exhibitors last year first and starting with a clean sheet. Or is that just a company write off and start again.

A dedicated club for modular built layouts has started up in SE London with a wide catchment area due to excellent transport links. We will be meeting twice a month and working with the Timhope baseboard and each module will be 1000mm x 450mm 00/Ho and 3ft x 1ft N gauge using Peco 100 track, the club module which will act as the mother board and track datum point. The idea is your module fits in your car boot and bring it each time or we can store some at the venue for non drivers. You chose the theme of module and period set and there is a continuous single track running along each one and will be DCC. Have to agree track height from baseboard and standard electrical connections and backboard and sideboard standard heights. Membership is £20 per year plus the cost of your module which is around £40, which of course you then own. The venue has a well stocked bar and we have a van which is set up to carry about 12 modules to exhibitions. see www.selkentmodelrailwayclub.weebly.com We have a meeting on Tues 9th Aug from 6pm to 10pm

A dedicated Modular MRC has been formed based in SE London with easy access from North Kent and Surrey with premises and working on the same TimHorn baseboard. I felt that having a uniform base and wiring system each to the same club standard will help this part of the hobby become more accessible to more people, basically this is the baseboard, this is the track you should use, these are the connectors and here are your track datum points, now go and build what you want and come every two weeks and lets join them together over a pint. The group is called SELKENT Model Railway Club and I have put a little start up money into it for advertising and getting some initial club boards with will act as the mother board for others to work from. The idea is that each module can be taken home in the boot of the car, some can be stored at the venue and some of the proceeds of a recent model railway show I run is going on a big steel shed at the back of the theatre venue (very secure) to house modules and tooling. Membership will be £20 per annum plus the cost of the module board you will be working on, which of course you own. We have a dedicated van, kitted out to carry 12 modules max to exhibitions, which is one of the main remits of the club, the second is to allow members to be part of a big layout and still live in a 1 bed flat and have a layout to work on at home and at the club. Please pass the word around to anyone you know into like you is interested in Modular group layouts. Here is the website, first meeting Tues 9th Aug www.selkentmodelrailwayclub.weebly.com Harry

Finished building my T gauge 'Train to Plane' layout last night ready for Sevenoaks Model Rail Show on Sunday. Well pleased as uses 1.450 aircraft (usually have to get 1.500 or 1.400)

My Russian exhibition layout has just been updated from end to end to loop and will be at the Sevenoaks show on 10th July

yes, as I said in post he has annoyed me in the past so won't get free trade space in return for bringing a layout ever again, but he as a trader is still great on customer service and the models he sells are presented with care, hence why is going to be allowed to trade at my show and from reports here, other shows run by other people.

yes, a number of people objected to the fact that New Cross and Sevenoaks are commercial shows and are run by a theatre, not a MRC. Maybe Dekota did what he did, as he saw how some people reacted when we made it clear from the start that we run commercial shows under our company banner. Maybe instead he did it as a marketing ploy or for a higher ranking on google, I don't know, you will have to ask him. Everyone has the right not to exhibit or attend as a customer a commercial show and as an exhibitor they may charge higher expenses for attending commercial shows. I personally would not follow Dekota's style of business plan which is high risk, low return and hard maybe to manage with the growing number of exhibitions and far widespread for a single operator, but good on him for doing it and taking the risk. I have seen some of the shows he runs like DEAL which was heaving, so he defo made money, some reports on here of shows they attended where numbers are down, so he might of made a loss. The thing is he went for it and is a hard worker and great to see someone run a business from the age of 17. Yes, he made a mistake and misjudged how some would react on here to names he used in relation to who ran the local shows. From posts on here, he has removed some of these already. I made it clear in the previous posting on here, he is not a personal friend and he has wound me up in the past and no doubt will do again in the future, but give him a break people. If someone can come back with a list of more things they have done this year to promote this hobby to new blood more then Dekota has - things like supporting traders by buying things doesn't count as you are actually supporting commercial operators who use the hobby for commercial gain. Better still is to list those things on the numerous forum groups set up my model railway fans and not on here, which is a forum group set up as part of a commercial enterprise and a successful one, and sole purpose is to gain readership or advertising revenue, again nothing wrong with that. So anyone who bleats on from this forum about they have a stance and will not support any commercial operators making money out of the hobby for their own gain, please prove you mean it and delete your account from here. No readership, no advertising, this forum will shut very fast. by the way, I am not asking cromptonnut to justify the above and deleting their account, he has made some valid points and raised questions which should be asked. I am aiming it at anyone who wants to make a public stand about we should all not support any show which isn't run by a MRC.

Look, anyone who knows Dekota, accepts he can be annoying, secretive, pushy, very easy to wind up for fun and a bit Heath Robinson in the way he does things. He is also one of the most committed and hardworking people I have come across at exhibitions, and get below the surface actually a very informative bloke on model railways, and I allow him to have a trade stand at my show as he has excellent customer care and although selling secondhand, takes pride in what and how he sells, including shrink wrapping locos etc. He also p&^sed me of last year at our New Cross show when he got free trade space as he said he will be bringing narrow gauge layout, and turned up with a baseboard with a grass hill on it! no trains, just a hill, but at the same time, he is easy to forgive as I don't think he winds people up on purpose. He has a style that can sometime get the better of him and tries to emulate other commercial shows by taken on board bits that work the Dekotaing them, which sometimes works and sometimes fails. He has started to copy our marketing model which is why he is getting many non modellers to the shows, which is great and always has flyers at exhibitions. It doesn't take long to work out all the different model railway clubs are from the same source as all the flyers have the same format. I know like us, he often does own in-house catering and has asked how we do it and all the food prep certificates you need, and from it we should see a more professional aspect to that side (past shows he ran had family members arguing over who is serving which cheese roll). I don't know why the events he runs have fictitious names, commercially many brands do that, a local farm sausage in Tescos at a farm that does not exist. It will obviously work for the public but for the modelling community, obvious to spot. I am not saying he does it for the following marketing reason, but I know when we advertise our shows on UK modelshops which as a site gets lots of hits, the event is formatted that the club or organiser is listed then the area of the event ie THE LONDON THEATRE then Sevenoaks Show. This can show that the event is in London, not Sevenoaks. He may have just used a name so that they don't all say DEKOTA DIBDIN, as is proved from posts on this discussion, that will stop some attending an event he runs. I am not saying it is a good marketing plan he is operating, just given a suggestion maybe why. The format of being the only trader there is a odd choice I admit and he is getting more into general toys to reflect the attendees at the shows he runs. I have noticed at a few shows he runs other traders so hopefully he is starting to accept trade stands bring modelers as much as the layouts. One thing I must praise is that yes, he is building a little empire of shows,but he is careful I found not to tread on any local club and do a show in the same location. He isn't competing with local shows but bringing a new show to a new area and that can only be good for the Model railway world. Some shows he does he raises a portion for charity, some may be fully commercial. He lists the charities he is supporting and so easy to check if money is going to them, as by law he has to declare that, and how much was raised. So questions on here about the charity aspect of his shows, shouldn't really be raised. If anyone is annoyed at the fictitious model railway clubs, he does events for, he isn't doing anything wrong, just a bit misguided but for retribution, and I will come clean, a few of the exhibitors and trades people have been having a joke on him for the last few years playing him at the same game and making up a number of exhibitions , which they all attend. These include three I fictitiously run in Offenbach, Germany, Calais and off course the big one I run in MOSCOW oh and Caterham! Knowing he will try and tap into that market or try and work out how we do it has been endless fun. We did it because he is Dekoka, and he is a main player and character in the exhibition scene and bottom line is we do all actually at the end of the day like him.

A good local research on a area is the local long standing coach or bus company as they always take a piccy of each new bus or coach they buy and often keep records and so you will see the actual type and colour schemes of local transport for that era. For rural stations, try the local parish news and ask if anyone has piccys of the station at that time and they will circulate your request