Rexeljet

Since we know basically everything about the new range, I may as well post my thoughts. I'm glad they went through the trouble of touching the models up. They could have kept Thomas and Percy's unpainted footplates, Edward's angry eyebrows and Gordon's thousand-yard stare, but the fact that they updated them at all shows at least some signs of progress. Even changes as minuscule as the exact shade of green or the font of Gordon's number I was happy to see. A lot of my posts on here have made it look like I'm heavily biased towards Bachmann. In attempt to counter this, I will say that Bachmann's earliest models are in need of similar aesthetic updates as well. Thomas, Percy and Henry could all do with new faces, and James could do with being retooled entirely- as well as his face and paint application being off, his cab is literally a block that houses the motor- the Hornby James is definitely the better looking of the two. I would be lying if I said I wasn't happy with the visual changes the range has got, though at the same time, I'd also be lying if I said it wouldn't have been nice to see a little more. I'm glad that the faces have been toned down to look more friendly than they used to, but one of the things that Hornby's Thomas line was always praised for in the past, was their expertly-sculpted faces (especially in comparison to the early Bachmann stuff). So it's a shame they haven't exhibited their expert sculpting by making new faces to match the characters from the CGI series. Remember when Hornby made a limited edition Thomas model with a unique surprised face sculpt? I can't see that happening now. And since I am pleased by little nuances, I shall also be critical of little nuances. The unpainted axleboxes on Gordon and Henry's tenders make the whole tender body look like a solid lump of cheap plastic. Considering Gordon's tender has a plastic bodyshell and metal axleboxes, I don't even see why the axleboxes were blue in the first place! The paint application actually manages to make Gordon's tender look more plasticky than it actually is! All in all, Hornby's "new" range looks good from an aesthetic standpoint. A few things could have been done to make it look great, but all in all, a good offering. The biggest disappointment with the "new" Thomas range would have to be the decision to retain the tender-drive motors. Standardisation is the key reason for the Hornby Thomas range's discrepancies from the source material. Standard chassis types and body toolings are used so Hornby don't have to make unique designs for the Thomas range. So why, the one time where standardisation can be used to make the Thomas range better, do Hornby suddenly have a change of heart? It feels like a lose-lose situation. Hornby are having to manufacture a motor/chassis unique to the Thomas range, even though customers would prefer standard motors from the Railroad range. Also, the way that Hornby approached Sawyermodels' question about Railroad motors comes across as a little unprofessional. Of course they're not going to reply with "we're lazy" or "we forgot", but you'd expect them to have had some kind of stock excuse for a question like that.

The 70th Anniversary metallic edition has Thomas with a repainted face: It's possible that this repainted face is exclusive to this edition of Thomas. As I said in my previous post, Hornby are just churning out the same old product images, so until someone shows the new models on camera it's too early to jump to conclusions. However, updates to the faces would tie in with the samples looking like they had new faces at the Great Electric Train Show. Gordon especially would benefit greatly from a repainted face. ADDENDUM It's complicated. If you compare, say, the Hornby and Bachmann Henry, then yes, the Hornby one is close to the book illustrations whereas the Bachmann one is a good approximation for the TV model. Gordon is similar. The Hornby model has distinct lines of a Gresley Pacific, as Gordon looks in the later books, whereas the Bachmann Gordon has the larger boiler and shorter length, as is the case in the TV series and earlier books. But Hornby have always tried to match the TV Series, not the Railway Series books. This is why Annie and Clarabel are 4-wheelers, why Oliver and Duck are a much lighter shade of green than brunswick, and so on. The Railway Series doesn't exist to them- the only reason why Bear (D7101) and Flying Scotsman were added to the range was because they were lifted directly from the ERTL diecast range, and required only minimal changes to models from Hornby's regular lineup. Sometimes, Bachmann is closer to the books. The Hornby Thomas is accurate to the class Thomas is based on, but the illustrations have never depicted him being quite so long, or looking much like the Brighton E2 tank at all. In fact, if it wasn't for the Hornby model, dare I say that the link between Thomas and the "E2" tanks would fly over most people's heads! If you look at any illustration of Thomas from the books, especially those by C. Reginald Dalby and John Kenney, Bachmann is often the closer approximation. And indeed, any illustration of Edward from the Railway Series will look far more like the Bachmann model than the Hornby one.

No one was expecting new (body) tooling after the revelations in May. I'm pretty sure that what Brushman is getting at is the motors. There's still no confirmation whether or not Hornby have updated the motors/chassis in the Thomas range in conformance with the standardisations present in the Railroad range (e.g. loco drive for the tender engines, a slower motor for Percy, etc.) though considering the traditionally austere nature of the Thomas range, it'd surprise me if they didn't supply the engines with newer, standard motors to cut costs. One thing that's annoying me about the Hornby Thomas range is the over-reliance on older stock images. We know that Thomas and Percy are getting white footplates, and Thomas (and possibly other engines) are getting repainted faces, so it seems a little unprofessional that we're still getting dirt old stock photos. Minor paint application doesn't seem like much, but considering Hornby originally called it a "new range", you'd expect them to cling onto any signs of newness that the range has. I know that I was originally complaining at Hornby for making it look like the range was in for a change when it wasn't. Now it seems like the range is in for some (if minimal) change, and yet Hornby are making it look like there isn't going to be any change at all.

They're just the stock photos that Hornby have been using for years- note how the picture at the top shows Percy with a green footplate, even though a picture of the new sample model has confirmed that he's getting a white footplate.

I can agree about Mattel's offerings plummeting in terms of aesthetics; the weird thing was that the take-n-play Thomas line spent 2013 and much of 2014 improving to the point where they were almost ERTL quality (I recommend you google the Take-N-Play "Big City Engine", as it's a really nice representation of a Fowler Patriot), but around last September the range almost instantly regressed into a deformed, inaccurate shambles. I imagine that accuracy (though perhaps not so much detail) plays a part; my favourite Thomas toyline back in the day was the ERTL diecast line, largely because of how closely most of the models resembled their TV counterparts. If there had been a range of Thomas toys that looked identical to the TV Series models back when I was in the target audience, I imagine I'd have rejoiced, but I obviously don't represent the popular opinion in all cases, or indeed, nearly any case. I think Mattel are onto a winner with their current incarnation of the Trackmaster lineup, which has been given a fast-paced, action-orientated approach with their emphasis on steep gradients and the like. It makes me wonder if Hornby will market their Thomas range differently to how they've done in the past, even if there's no real changes to the range itself?

Fair point about Hornby's Thomas range not looking identical to Bachmann being a plus, though I'd have liked to see at least some new paint jobs; things like body-coloured footplates and axleboxes make the models look a little cheap and plasticy. I would argue that Hornby's range is trying to appeal more to kids (and their parents) than collectors, thanks to its "rough and ready" nature where the characters look "close enough" rather than identical to their TV and book counterparts, and the robustness, speed and pulling power help them to appeal to kids as well. (I don't know about you, but when I was little I'd always try to make my toy and model engines pull the longest trains I could possibly make!)

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I can imagine a new and improved four-wheel carriage with a CCT chassis looking rather fetching in a rake of two or three behind a tank engine. The ones that Hornby make at the moment look like cattle vans! On a similar note, I wouldn't mind seeing Hornby replace their Triang 08 for the Railroad range with the Lima tooling. My beef with the Triang 08 is less the inside frames but rather the use of the standard Jinty wheelbase, which doesn't really evoke the design of the 08 at all. However, I can't see this happening for two reasons. Not only would the Lima tooling be more expensive to produce thanks to its non-standard nature, but because it'd look closer to Hornby's premium 08, the sales of the high-end 08 model would probably drop. So if Hornby were just to make a longer four-wheeled coach then I would be a happy camper. The interesting thing about the Hornby Toby is his sheer size, which is a bigger problem than just mere inaccuracy. He's so tall that he can't fit under certain sheds, tunnels and bridges that are marketed by Hornby themselves! Toby is very much a main character and is one of the "Magnificent Seven" that the Thomas brand focuses on, so it seems odd that Hornby would take him out of their lineup. Now, this is really just heinous wishful thinking on my part, but is it possible that Hornby have removed Toby from their Thomas range so that they can make amends to his scaling problem? A man can dream, I suppose. Yeah, Silver Fox Models make a J70 tram for £75 ready to run (with DCC). bit pricey but would make for a very accurate Toby.

This article has shown up: http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/80397/Hornby-to-remake-thomas-the-tank-engine-models-on-characters-70th-anniversary-80397.html Poorly worded article, or are Hornby throwing us off with their stock images? Hmmm. I wouldn't get my hopes up, but meh.

Ah yes, looking at it again it would seem that the current James stock picture is different from the earlier stock pictures I've seen: However, the existing stock picture of James is not new. This is the exact same picture, dated 2009. You can tell it's the exact same picture because of the lamp irons. Not only are they upside down, but they're not level with each other.

Whilst I can see your point, kids can identify discrepancies from an early age, and may be more blunt about it than adults. One thing that caught my attention when I acquired a Hornby Thomas set at age 5 was the fact that Annie and Clarabel were shorter than Thomas, whereas the opposite was correct for the books, TV Series and all the other toylines. It's also worth noting that the Tomix Thomas is often regarded as the most accurate representation of the character that money can buy (unless you buy an actual model from the TV show), but in fairness that's beside the point. @jivebunny: I wouldn't go looking at the stock images for differences between the old and "new" models; I think Hornby have been trotting out that same James picture since around 1988 or so.

After coming to my senses a bit, here are some slightly less vitriolic views from me. I wholeheartedly agree with JBM that taking so long to announce something that is no different to what came before just led to disappointment. But maybe there's still hope for some differences? New tooling is basically out of the question now, since I highly doubt they'd show pictures of the older tooling during the announcement if the models were to look completely different. But they called the range "New" and have been keeping things under wraps before this point. If this is literally exactly the same as previously, then why would Hornby call it new and act secretive about the models? Ideally we should at least see new paint jobs. I've already mentioned that Gordon could be fixed with a simple paint job, but in honesty all of the engines they've got available for pre-order could be brought to life with just a repaint (apart from Edward, whose tooling is quite frankly unsalvageable). All Percy needs, for example, is a white footplate. All Henry needs is for his tender axleboxes to be painted black. James could easily go into production without any changes at all. Slight modifications to the tooling would be nice, though maybe a bit much to ask for at this point. I can never get over the fact that the Hornby Thomas' funnel just seems too tall. A widened cab and a straightened rear footplate would be nice to see, but I think it's the overly tall funnel that throws me off the most. My guess is that the engines will receive CGI-styled faces. The packaging, advertising and such for Hornby's Thomas range have been using stockart from the CGI era of Thomas for a while now, so updating the character's faces to suit is somewhat likely.

It may not have directly stated new tooling, but the fact that Hornby called it a new range, and not a reintroduced range, or even just a range, would seem to indicate that there was some form of newness present in the reintroduced Thomas range. That could have been anything, from new tooling to new paint application to DCC support. My expectations were all over the place but I imagine many people felt that a new set of toolings to reflect the brand's current image could have been a distinct possibility. As the range currently stands, the only "new" thing about it seems to be the price. It's complicated. It's not a simple case of me hating Hornby and liking Bachmann. If this was the case I'd have been nowhere near as passionate in my post. I'd have likely just replied with a dismissive "Pfft, typical Hornby. You wouldn't see Bachmann doing this! Hip Hip Hooray for Bachmann!". I just don't think that dredging up the old toolings with literally no changes at all is a model for the future. Hornby's Thomas range should evolve and progress, but it's just stagnating and has been doing so for years prior to the discontinuation. It's nice to see that the prices have come down, but I don't think sales will pick up significantly from before the range was discontinued. This all just comes across as a glorified publicity stunt. I'm not sure if I could see Hornby Thomas lasting for too many years in the state it's in. If I considerably preferred Bachmann then I'd be happy about that.

I promised a rant, so here we are! Aren't you lucky! WHAT AN ABSOLUTE FREAKING JOKE. Why, Hornby? Why, Mattel? What is the point? Hornby discontinued the range, and then decided to "review" it. What did the review consist of? If they originally planned to discontinue the range, then what nimrod decided "You know what we need to make our range sell better? Keep it exactly the same!". Are Hornby even aware of the competition? Do they seriously think that less accurate models that are more expensive than their competitors have any chance of surviving on the market? Hornby appear to be suffering from what I like to call "Household Name Syndrome". In short, this is when a company, which is the market leader, becomes complacent and begins to sell lower-quality products than the competition, knowing (or in some cases, believing) that their products will sell because of their monopoly in the marketplace. This is the Hornby Thomas range in a nutshell. I imagine that when the range was being reviewed, Hornby came to a conclusion along the lines of "We're Hornby, we make model trains. Everyone knows that. Who needs effort when you've got brand recognition?" It's got no chance against the Bachmann range. Currently, Hornby have six engines available for pre-order. All of them are available in the Bachmann range. All of them are the same price or less in the Bachmann range and, with the possible exception of James and (depending on your view of the face) Percy, all are more accurately modelled in the Bachmann range. The prices have been brought down, but that's just not enough to justify the range's return. Bachmann's recent announcements show that they're listening. They are making a range that appeals to the adult modeller whilst still being accessible to children. Hornby's announcements just seem to exibit their complacency, and show that they're out of touch with the fans. Like or loathe Hornby, you must admit that they are far from flawless. Sure, some characters are more accurate to how they would look in real life, but that's not because Hornby want to supply the customer with a "finescale" Thomas range. It's because repainting existing models requires minimal effort and costs. The models that actually share an engine class with the original characters are just flukes. Many of the better looking models, like James and Percy, are the result of Britt Allcroft being disapproving of earlier, lazier designs. If Hornby had been allowed to do whatever they wanted, the Thomas range would look even worse than it does now. And yet, so many aesthetic problems could be fixed with minimal effort! Hornby is just too lazy, self-smug and detached to put any changes into fruition. Gordon is a prime example. Simply repainting him would do wonders. As he currently stands, he's got blue axleboxes, a battleship grey footplate, angry eyebrows and tiny, forward-facing pupils. If they painted his axleboxes black, whitened his footplate, toned down his eyebrows and enlarged his pupils (and had them facing downward or to the side) it would look perfectly acceptable! Would Hornby ever think to try such a thing? Nope! But do you want to know the biggest insult of them all? The fact that Hornby went and called this outdated mess "NEW!" How is it new? Do they really think that people have such tiny memories that they won't remember the "old" range, despite the fact that many models are still being displayed and/or catalogued in shops? All it managed to do was raise people's expectations; it had people believe that Hornby would reinvent their range to produce something that could put up a decent fight with Bachmann's range. Had they simply stated that they were reintroducing their existing Thomas range, and didn't keep everything so secretive and under-wraps as if they had something to hide, then these high expectations and the disappointment that followed could have been avoided. Anyway, I've lost all hope for Hornby's Thomas range. The only thing that could save the range would be if the negative reception of the not-new-at-all Thomas range serves as a wake-up call to Hornby, and make them realise that progressing with the Thomas range is the only way it will survive. Somehow, I don't think that's likely. The range will just wither and rot, and presumably give way to Bachmann's range within a few years.

The Thomas license will definitely put the price up, but bear in mind that Hornby are listing their Jinty model (sans DCC) for about half the price that the "new" Thomas model bore when it was briefly listed. I don't think that the Thomas license will add £28 to the price of a model! As for full-sized Thomases on preserved lines, whilst it's true that some of them don't much resemble Thomas at all, they also have the drawback of being real engines that would be very expensive and time-consuming to convert to an accurate-looking Thomas. Plus, doing such a thing would likely result in outcry from historians. Even then, many of the Thomases that run on preserved lines to a better job at evoking the character from the TV series than the Hornby model, with the exceptions probably being the outside-cylindered ones.

Maybe the "Mistake" is the picture of the old tooling? We can only dream. I did spot this stockart that the Hornby Thomas page was using: I made a note about this on Sodor Island Forums yesterday. It's not identical to how Thomas looks in the show- the proportions are slightly different, and Thomas has a straight footplate as opposed to the curved one from the show. So my (almost certainly incorrect) theory is that this could indeed be a silhouette of the "new" tooling. The "off" proportions and the footplate imply that this wasn't supplied to Hornby by HiT/Mattel and that Hornby may have made the picture themselves. If that is the case, then if nothing else it signifies that Hornby are aware that the old Thomas tooling isn't a dead ringer for how he looks in the TV series. I shall not emit my promised monograph until we get an official announcement (or equally reliable evidence of the range's future), but I will say that if the Hornby Thomas range will see no aesthetic changes, then I can't see the range surviving. Especially not with Thomas at £60.