Lecorbusier

Thanks for the link ... thoroughly enjoyed a browse ... there is some wonderful modelling there

Being a discussion thread I suspect it tends to meander rather than following a set course or itinerary. Discussions will reflect the interests/worries/hopes of those currently contributing (until/unless Tony wishes to pull it in some other direction). I doubt anyone is meaning to be exclusive and a personal view is of course a personal view. Of course tedium could always prompt a positive interjection to take the discussion off in to more conducive pastures

I have to say I build a kit for the joy and entertainment of building a kit ... just think - you get the joy of building a loco/coach, Hours of fun .... you then get the joy of painting it, again hours of fun .... and then wow you don't simply put it on a shelf/hang it on the wall with a warm glow of satisfaction ... no ... you then get a whole 'furthermore' load of hours of fun playing with it! Same with building the model. Wow!!! what a great hobby. Given the hours of fun and manifest rewards kits are surely a bargain

Which class?

Its not just the painting and weathering ... for me the kit built locos feel weightier - more real ... it might be because they are 'less perfect' I don't know - as soon as you stop focussing on the perfection of the details and look at the whole the kit wins hands down .... just my preference. If you prefer the RTR then fine but I would take the kit every time and this has nothing to do with reliability, good running or the ability to pull big weights.

MR 700 Class I'm definitely on for one of those.

Tony, This may just be personal to me, but I find that your models have a greater sense of weight and mass when compare to the RTR offerings. Even when adapted and weathered RTR always feel to me slightly plastic, where as yours have something of the 'massiveness' of the real thing. It may be that the 'perfection' of the RTR doesn't scale so well. The thing that never ceases to set my heart racing is the sheer size and elemental power of the big mainline express locos .... getting something of that sense in both the stance and when moving has always been one of your talents. The exquisite painting by Geoff further emphasises this difference.

Lets hope that the RTR market falls back to a sustainable position .... we certainly don't want any of the manufacturers going bust. If we take pre grouping Midland ... I think the slim boilered Johnsons, the rebuilt Kirtleys and the original Kirtleys are only ever likely to be comprehensively covered by kits ... and there is certainly room for more kits than are currently available. I assume the same is true of other companies. The same is also true for the coaching stock and pre grouping wagons.

Tony, I sincerely hope you are wrong. Interestingly on the kit front I think the signs are encouraging, I hear on the grapevine that at least 2 new kits are being developed for LRM. Southeastern Finecast and Branchlines are of course currently working on the updating of the old Nucast/Keyser range, and unless I am much mistaken, the Falcon Brass range seems to be re-emerging - the etches if not the kits appear to be available again. I also hear that some new coach kits are currently being designed ... although I have to admit to being sad that Mousa Models seem to be going away from etched brass in favour of 3d printing for the new stuff they are producing - it is very good but there is far less for the buyer to actually put together. I have perhaps a different take to you on all of this being from a slightly different generation. I see the position of the RTR market as being very precarious. Over the last 10 to fifteen years it has benefitted from the baby boom generation retiring with ready cash and fond memories and thus reinvented itself away from the 'toy' and towards the 'scale model' ... this I would suggest is an anomaly reflecting a specific set of circumstances, rather than a new norm. The strong emphasis on BR steam and post war pre grouping by the RTR manufacturers reflects this .... and remember all of this coincided with the emergence of cheap manufacturing in the far east ( a phenomenon which is rapidly tapering off). I don't think the generation following the baby boom generation will have anywhere near the same numbers wanting to buy (not make) the trainset they would have loved in their youth. My view is that the RTR market has passed its zenith and over the next 10 years sales figures will fall back. I suspect that (as with Hornby recently) manufacturers could well experience solvency problems. Add to this the likelihood that folk will be retiring later and (I hazard a guess) with far less cash, and the future for RTR is not exactly rosy. So I would be surprised if the RTR manufacturers continue to invest in many more new models. I also think that kit manufacture goes in cycles. I certainly want to have a bash at designing some of my own kits ... but I am not there yet. I think that as tastes broaden in the hobby relating to the periods people want to model, (reflecting the fact that demographically - with reference to Steam at least - knowledge and memory of the real thing will be limited to the heritage scene) I would not be at all surprised to see a new raft of kits emerging over the next 10 years (particularly for pre-grouping). Now whether these follow the 3d printing route or we see a healthy mix of all the different media we will have to wait and see. One other thing I would mention in passing ... it is interesting how the young are returning to things that a few years ago were deemed to be dead. The 15 to 25 year old generation are currently buying vinyl and the old portable record player has made a come back. Polaroids are very much back in fashion and people are rediscovering the joys of photography using film. Similarly I think the urge to make using actual rather than virtual materials is resurfacing. Time will tell.

Still the main stream always seem to forget .... for earlier periods and more eccentric choices RTR is simply not available .... so yes very much so!

I always come back to the fact that in my opinion teaching is everything ... yes you can be self taught, but I would still argue that you need to get to a certain level to be able to establish basic principles such that they can then be applied to your own learning and explorations. What is needed is the equivalent of the good old apprenticeship. This is of course for our hobby best done through clubs or friendship circles, as taught courses can be expensive and are therefore exclusive. However, simple videos or you-tube tutorials can be a great alternative ... particularly if questions and requests can be made. For example watching, the 'loco builder' build a high-level gearbox completely demystifies what are excellent instructions. With modern technology we now have the chance to create a collective resource which could capture a large part of the immense skill and knowledge that is currently out there ... I wonder if it will happen? One problem is that there are a great preponderance of silver hairs within the higher skill levels in the hobby and these tend to be uncomfortable with the digital world. However, I don't see why a wikipedia style tutorial platform could not develop over time, where videos from club and private tutorials might be deposited. Interestingly, if you have the time, skill and inclination to search the web, there is already a lot out there ... but its access could be described as chaotic/hit and miss at best.

My take is that its been the opposite ... namely trying to get people to have a go complete with full encouragement and help/advice - agree with the rest though.

would love to see some pictures if you have any? I have been watching Sparkshot Custom Creations with interest for a while now.

The sports analogy is good here ... ....some seem able to pick up any racket stick ball etc and have an innate ability to control things ... practice makes perfect but their control is amazing. ...others through dint of hard work and much practice develop a modicum of control. .... some, never mind how hard they try just can't do it. Interestingly, there is an element of self selection here in terms of enjoyment. I suspect the same is true of modelling. The great thing about the hobby as a whole is that it can find niches for most .. you may not be the one who builds loco kits, but you may well be a whiz at organising the running schedules, understanding the signalling, delving in to the minutiae of historical research etc etc etc....

Thanks for the input Jol, I bought my kit mid November a year ago ... so I assume that the etch will be missing. I will ask Jon the question and see what he comes back with ... if he can help it will be piggy backing another order for a Ballast Brake Van - so there will be at least be a positive connected with the enquiry.

Thanks for drawing this to our attention Stephen ... I have one of these on the list to do, so will drop John a line.

Tony, What particular aspect makes you say this? I can fully understand the sentiment if the goal is to run express trains in excess of scale 60mph on a large layout ... particularly if the aim is to exhibit. St Merryn if I recall is a small terminus station where everything is slow moving?

again ....

I would add to this ... just think of our standard hand eye skills. The majority can write ... and if necessary write neatly. This is a high level of hand eye coordination and it is learnt - just have a go at writing with your other hand. We will not all be great calligraphers, but proficiency is certainly achievable.

Time will tell ... the truth of the pudding and all that. I don't profess to any preternatural skill and have no idea if I will succeed ... just keen to have a bash. I fully accept that there will be a skill level which will need to be achieved and we will see if I am up to it, but I also suspect that there will also need to be a fair degree of bloody mindedness coupled to a high degree of determination as well ... ie succeeding needs to be important enough to you.

As I am having a bash at P4, this is encouraging ... particularly as I am currently embarked upon some trial track building. Fingers crossed.

This may be heresy, but I love the loud sound the trains make on little Bytham as they pass by at speed in the various videos posted.

I may be wrong ... but i suspect this has as much to do with commercial drivers as anything. I would suspect that the mass international condemnation might potentially lead to an element of boycot ... anyone doing a risk assessment on behalf of the studio would be likely to advise the action taken given the amounts of money involved ... just a thought.

Programme can be found here