Lecorbusier

29 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

May I, respectfully, suggest that those who wish to discuss Australian and other politics should start a separate topic in the Wheeltappers section.

Not interested in discussing politics ... there are many ways to skin a cat - and frankly climate change is too depressing.

Modelling is however good therapy!

My hope is that if a major player starts to invest seriously in green technology, it could create a paradigm shift from a technological and therefore an economic standpoint .... The fear that it would be problematic to be left behind as the economic focus shifts - industries of the future and all that.

Its coming anyway ... just not quickly enough. I find it fascinating that investors are pulling the plug on traditional power generation in favour of renewables because the payback periods are no longer workable due to the continuing tumbling of renewable prices. The problem of course with renewables is that the scope for money making is more limited as the generation of the power requires zero natural resource provision ... and so it becomes an infrastructure and maintenance model - with the infrastructure being much smaller and maintenance  being far easier. It should create a situation of plenty, so I suspect it will be monopolised in some way.

Hopefully all of this will lead to smaller and more powerful batteries for our model trains at dirt cheap prices 

for anyone interested ... this is an interesting web site

https://www.carboncommentary.com

and his last book .... the switch was fascinating.

9 hours ago, DougN said:

Just to put the Aussie fires in to perspective.

 

The entire world needs action on climate change. The lumbering dinosaur that is the aussie governments may actually do something now.  

It is a sad fact that currently everything seems to be being done to either play down, ignore or deflect from climate change by the mainstream.

Figures on American reporting on Australia ...

.... it seems pretty similar in the UK. 

Less important things occupy centre stage - often manufactured or presented polemically to divide opinion and create division ... think Trump in Iran, Brexit in the UK.... and whenever any serious proposals are put forward to try and tackle the problem they are attacked as being either unaffordable (whatever the economic underpinnings) or politically dangerous.

I will watch with interest the Sanders campaign in the US, which is proposing a 'Green New Deal' based upon the same underpinnings as the Roosevelt new deal with similar economic rational - it is bold and arguably could also address the economic stagnation in the US (outside of the financialised sector). It has been backed by some pretty serious  academics, but is currently being attacked as dangerously leftwing - an odd critique of American history - particularly as many of the major financial institutions are now calling for governments to seriously invest as a way of breaking the long term low/negative interest rate cycle.

I am however pretty pessimistic ... In the Uk very similar 'Green New Deal' proposals got next to no traction at all in the recent election with almost zero serious discussion or critique within the mainstream - this all but prevents the majority from being able to make an informed judgement either way.

Given the circumstances, perhaps Australia as a major nation will now provide a lead ... 

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Being one of those  'developers' these statements irk me somewhat. 

 

Planning policy as set by central government is what determines the density and what is built. Hence in this area the style of buildings changed overnight from 2 storey detached and semi detached, to 3 storey terraced as the density of housing increased per hectare.

I personally purchased a bungalow sitting in half an acre which had outline permission to demolish and replace with a large house, when I applied for detailed permission the local planning authority asked for the plans to be changed to multiple housing or the application would be refused.

 

The amount of amenity area associated with houses has decreased with recent planning policy, and shared areas such as green spaces are included in that calculation.

 

 

I take a slightly different view. Developers of all ilks (and I have both worked for them and been one myself in a small way) build as a business for profit  - whether to sell or to derive an income from rental. As such the main driver is not social need, but what within the market offers the most advantageous outcome. To some extent policy can drive and channel this by generating demand ... but choices are neither altruistic nor social.

If you want social outcomes, then it has always seemed bonkers to me to leave it to the market or expect the market to be a willing partner. The plight of developer driven social or "affordable"   housing is proof of this, and as far as satisfying demand is concerned, so long as there is a market and a return that is all that is required to drive the sector ....  outcomes do not prove to be predictable as far as social engineering is concerned. Housing associations have proved more successful.  In  London ... as well as many other city locations .... you will find many flats bought off plan as investments, often from abroad and often left empty, with negligible impact upon the housing crisis (and it often seems to be ignored that London has 3 boroughs with some of the highest levels of Poverty in the UK ). Again, if statistics are to be believed, it is not a shortage of property that the country suffers from, but rather a shortage of available property at affordable prices .... we actually have a surfeit of accommodation as things stand.

All very interesting ... and something for which a solution will need to be found - you can't disenfranchise too large a section of society without repercussions as we found out during the 1920s and 30s ....  40 - 60% of a persons income (in many cases a double income) going on accommodation costs is not sustainable. It is already having a statistical downward effect on peoples choices of when and if to have a family ... a fact currently partially masked by an ageing and increasingly long lived population.

But I find that railway modelling is a fantastic escape from the real world, I just wish I had more time to devote to it .....and to other leisure activities come to that. As things are going it doesn't look as if I will have any hope of retiring much before 70, which is when my own mortgage will be paid off --- but then I shouldn't grumble as I am lucky enough to have a mortgage! By comparison my father retired at 59 and will be 94 this year.

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

As the older population leave us, there may be a glut of bigger and mostly unaffordable houses. If these are worth more as a building plot, they either get pulled down and replaced with apartments or flats or they get converted.  Many people with big gardens see them as an opportunity to make a chunk of money by selling off a building plot. So you end up with two properties, each with no room for a big shed. It is all about profit for developers, getting as many properties to sell in as small a land area as possible. Room for any hobbies is not on their agenda. 

 

By glut I mean .....if the statistics are to be believed.... a pretty large proportion of property outside the rental sector is now concentrated within the over 65 age bracket. When these houses come on to the market (which they will unless you are an only child and the inheritance tax rules change such that they don't force a sale (or the property is cheap enough to be below the threshold)), then there is likely to be a limited market for such properties at the current values. As such a glut will result and prices will tumble. Now whether  they tumble to the extent that they become affordable to those below the glass ceiling, or whether they find a higher level of value where they become pray to the landlord sector (re-enforcing that glass ceiling) only time will tell. It is certain that we currently have an unsustainable glass ceiling.

Some thoughts on layout types and sizes ....

It seems to me that large layouts and team efforts are the preserve more often than not of the club ... and I wonder how healthy this once ubiquitous institution remains from the stand point of exhibiting or visiting?

I also observe that there appear to be a raft of largish layouts under construction by those entering early(ish) (i.e. hale and hearty) retirement by means of the large garden shed as railway/craft room down the bottom of the garden/yard - the majority of these appear to be permanent and therefore private endeavours. There are a fair few largish endeavours occupying dedicated threads both here and the Scalefourum web site - though how many of these magnum opera will reach fruition will be interesting to watch.

If you still have a family then space tends to be limited and the small layout comes into its own.

Equally, there are an increasing number of people under 50 who rent (being unable to buy) and when buying can afford very limited space .... so the smaller layout is very much here to stay ... perhaps this will lead to a re-flowering of the club - though I fear the cost and availability of rooms may also be a dwindling resource.

I can't help feeling that there is going to be a glut of property at some time in the not too distant future as the glass ceiling continues to rise with age - though this may benefit the professional private landlord rather than the new home owner dependent on inheritance tax rules .... we shall see!

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Yes, but those are all goods yard scenes - no proof which way round the van was out on the road. 

true ... but where it is attached to a run of wagons I suspect one can assume that this is the way round it was attached on arrival? The final image would suggest your guess is correct.

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

One location that yields photos of the rear of goods trains comes to mind:

 

 

Verandah trailing. Post 1928 LMS, though. 

37 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The first challenge is to find photos that show the back end of a goods train at any period, let alone pre-grouping Midland. The photographic record is heavily biased towards the front end of express passenger trains.

10 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

When I started again after several years, I was fortunate to meet several modellers using P4 (including John Redrup of LRM, then working in Puffers at Kenton). Through their guidance and support and by using for the first time a consistent set of standards for which assembly jigs and gauges were available, I found I could build models that worked better than I had ever achieved before. Yes it takes more time to build and paint locos and carriages, as well as the time required to build the track, signals, etc. However I find the challenge worthwhile .....

That in a nutshell is what I am in the process of experiencing .... though pretty much at the start  Fantastic fun!

11 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

It all depends what you want from the hobby.

 

I always say that P4 modellers are usually people who want to test themselves and their skills and gain satisfaction from that, rather than people who want an "easy fix" solution to getting a layout up and running as quickly as possible with the least amount of work.

 

I do model in EM, which I see as a middle ground between P4 and OO. I don't use RTR and build everything but as you say, it is more forgiving and in those terms of difficulty, it is nearer OO just with the wheels further apart. There are a few clearance issues around slide bars and splashers but the levels of accuracy you need to work to are more OO than P4.

 

If you don't need dozens of locos and hundreds of carriages, it doesn't matter in the slightest if it takes you months to build one whereas somebody like Tony W knocks them up in an afternoon. If you both end up with all you need, then you have both achieved your different objectives.

 

I know some fine P4 modellers who can produce stunning looking and reliable running models but none of them would claim that it is quick and easy.

 

There are loco projects on my bench that have been in progress for years. I do a bit from time to time but there is no deadline and as far as I am concerned, I do a bit when I am in the mood. If I am building a kit and come across a part that is not quite right and will show to somebody who knows the prototype reasonably well, I will stop and put it in the "thinking about it" pile while I decide if the fault is worth correcting and if so, what is the best way to do it. Sometimes, like with my 4mm Valour, I find faults that I know others may never notice but if I know they are there, I still feel the need to put them right! It means that my loco builds can be very slow but as long as I get there in the end and enjoy the finished model, the speed of construction matters not one jot to me.  

As you rightly say, I have chosen P4 very much as a challenge, and certainly not as a judgement on anyone else.

I have huge admiration for many layouts in both EM and 00 and the modellers of these are people I very much look up to and learn from. I also think that building a true and smoothly running loco in any gauge is a considerable skill, even if it is less longwinded in some than others. TW makes the process look easy, but then I would expect nothing less from a professional. 

What I have found is that compensating or CSB springing a loco, whilst certainly taking longer, seems to me to require very similar skills to getting a rigid chassis to run true, just with a longer sequence of stages .... but for a beginner in P4 what it does do is allow you to build something which actually has a chance of running reasonably reliably on your beginner track work. Without it, I suspect that P4 would be far less achievable and far more frustrating.

30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm sure for P4 a more-sophisticated system for making frames is required, but for OO and EM, flexible chassis, in my experience, are of no necessity. Providing the track is laid properly, of course. 

 

As very much a beginner in P4 (alongside any other gauge of modelling) I would only make one observation .... it seems to me to be so much less forgiving as a gauge than 00 and I suspect also EM (having never modelled in EM I don't know).

That being the case I need all the help I can get.

I assume that were I a track building guru then I might get away with a well built rigid chassis (which is a considerable skill in its own right). Equally, if I were a compensation or springing guru I might well get away with relatively poor track work (Mike Sharman's matchstick test). I am of course neither, but to date my efforts with the simple compensation of an 0-6-0 loco and now a CSB sprung 0-6-0 loco, have proved successful in navigating my less than perfect first efforts in track building. ..... though I hasten to add not under exhibition conditions with all that that entails.

Perhaps ... just perhaps, it is this relative lack of skill, which dictates the full gamut of solutions available to prevent disillusionment from the outset - and yes it does take a fair old time to put these chassis together - though if you are methodical and take your time they are relatively simple.

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

The late Malcolm Crawley used to say, in his non PC way, that cars, radios and women have chassis, locos have frames.

 

For him, saying a loco, model or otherwise, had a chassis was about as bad as using "train line" or "train station".

 

He could not see why we would use the wrong terms when perfectly good ones were available for use.

 

His locos had frames and so do mine. A set of wheeled frames, with motor and pick ups is a mechanism.

 

Not that it matters what we call things at all but I used to really enjoy his reaction when we were out at a show and somebody would ask how he had built the chassis. "I didn't! It doesn't have one!"

Oh dear .... was unaware I have been committing a faux pas with gay abandon  Flexichass as a system is therefore a complete misnomer I suppose .... and I have always held the late Mike Sharman somewhat in awe !

23 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Possibly more worrying is the proliferation of quite large trees growing out of the sides of embankments and cuttings at often precarious angles. Many of these will eventually become dislodged under their own weight and take a big chunk of what they are growing in with them. In my youth, such areas got burned back regularly (usually in alternate years IIRC) primarily to prevent lineside fires set by steam locomotives, but with the additional benefit that nothing grew large or heavy enough to endanger the structure.

I am no expert in things arboricultural, but most of what I have read and gleaned working with tree experts over the years would suggest that erosion tends to occur when trees are not present. I know that in many instances trees are now actively planted to stabilise unstable banks and hillsides because the roots serve to bind the structure together and encourage other binding scrub. How this relates to railway embankments and cuttings I have no idea, but I would have thought they were more stable and better engineered than those slopes where trees are now being actively planted.

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for your responses, Tim,

 

A couple or more points regarding letting 'Mother Nature' have her own way.

 

Have you travelled by train recently? I did, yesterday, and for much of the journey there was no view out of the window but that of trees.

 

Cesses are not looked after any more (or not to the extent that they should be), and tree roots break and block them.

 

How can letting invasive plant species inhabit the mortar courses of wonderful brick structures be a good thing?

 

I'm all for wildernesses, but not in and around railways. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I was not advocating lack of maintenance ... whether that be invasive plants on structures or graffiti. Nor am I celebrating the reduction in numbers of lines or complexity of track work.

However, the increase in nature ... particularly the wild wood around railway lines is for me a real positive about the contemporary scene .... and there are still plenty of stretches riding high which overlook pastoral landscapes.

I travel regularly between London and Oxford ... both via Paddington and Marylebone .... and I really like the increased wildness and feel of passing through nature rather than being distanced from it ... something that I believe would not be possible with Steam due to the danger of fire in the summer. I also like the fact that even when commuting in London there are stretches as one heads into the suburbs where all is wooded and green.

So I suppose we must agree to disagree ... I do like stretches of wilderness around railways where all does not feel manicured and controlled.

29 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Grahame,

 

OHLE might be structurally-interesting, but it must be incredibly difficult to model, and also very vulnerable. 

 

My reference to 'infesting' is to how it makes real railway photography so difficult, especially if in an elevated position.

 

strangely for me this has a rather evocative almost french feeling  ..... the OHLE adds something to the photo which makes up for the relative sameness of the homogenous motive power.

 

 

 There's also a fair bit of Mother Nature claiming back what once belonged to her. ........not good for steam railways but one of the nicer aspects as far as I am concerned of the modern day scene.

 

 

 

 

 

Rather different from the past, in these (at least) 65 years ago shots. I know which I find the more-interesting! The trackwork is incredibly complex - and far more-difficult to model than today's arrangement. ...... track work definitely more interesting, but lacks the complexity and interest of the OHLE

 

 

 

And a water crane 'infesting' that RH platform as well. And, at least eight diamonds, but no blades of grass or overgrown shrubs to be seen. What a wonderfully mixed train as well! ...... the steam paraphernalia is indeed wonderfully evocative, but the absence of nature lends a certain satanic framing to the scene as does the black and white medium.

 

 

 

 

 

Mother Nature is 'behaving herself' here, ....... cripes - as a fan of 're-wilding' and the glory/messiness of nature this speaks overmuch of sterile control.

 

It's nice to see loco-hauled trains arriving from Scarborough still. ..... agreed

 

But how much more-interesting is this? ..... depends upon ones interest surely ! There are also boy 'spotters; something not seen today. Why not? They're not interested in the modern railway! Fact. ...... or perhaps they have more interesting/addictive pastimes now .... and given the competition it takes a more mature bent of mind to see/grasp the fascination. I wasn't a spotter in my youth, but find much of interest now, and strangely the majority of entertainments/obsessions of my youth hold little interest for me know.

 

 

 

Look how the whole scene is 'infested' with all that paraphernalia! Wonderful. ...... beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

 

Looking very nice, I like these little 1F 0-6-0Ts. I built 1667 a few years ago but have built another two this year, one for me and another for a friend. I'm not sure of the origins of the kit but am fairly sure its a Craftsman kit shot down to 2mm scale which provides an excellent basis for the body on a scratch chassis.

1667 was fairly straightforward as the motor extends through the cab and back into the bunker - the crew are glued to the motor sans one leg and some torso!

The two half cabs were a bit more tricky but I managed to keep most of the cab free. The worm just pokes into the cab low down but a slightly high floor and hollow backhead means its not visible. Few details still to go on one then its painting.

 

 

 

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Wow .... the idea of doing it all twice, but half the size frazzles my brain ..... respect !

14 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Perhaps we just have to accept that the modern railway scene just don't fire the enthusiasm in the way they did in older times.

 

I rarely bother even when a steam special goes by. The high metal security fencing and overhead wires just ruin the view at the places I have always gone to watch the trains go by.

I never really considered that .... but modern stations and other places are not really user friendly for watching trains. Most concourses are secure with barriers etc dissuading the casual observer, and trains themselves feel much more enclosed and remote somehow. The heritage lines on the other hand allow you to wander along the platform and watch the world go by. Terminus describes a relaxed and accessible railway world which seems a world away now.

The HST was a classic design and a remarkable achievement .... the APT if the plug had not been pulled might also have been ground breaking - I find it interesting that the Pendolinos  make use of similar technology (or so I understand?). But even if you had dedicated tribes of Youthful spotters with little else to fill their time, I find it hard to believe that either would have held the attention long after their original novelty had worn off. Maybe it is because the separate identity of the locomotive and the separate personality of the carriage stock made for a more interesting life?

..... but even if we were catapulted back into the heyday of transporting, I suspect in todays market it would only ever have been niche ... given all the other attractions and entertainments  available.

1 hour ago, johndon said:

The last scheduled HST in to King's Cross.  Can't help but compare it to the last scheduled Deltic where you couldn't see the platform for the crowds...

 

 

I do vaguely wonder if this has more to do with the vastly reduced numbers and popularity of trainspotting as much as anything? The Deltics ran during a vastly different era.

I found this BBC Timeshift programme on the nationalised railways and particularly the modernisation including the APT and HST trains very interesting.

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There wasn't much rain and dew in January 1963, Mick.

 

Remember the big freeze? Ice and snow, yes. 60028 never moved under its own power again, and it is not covered in muck. 60003, 60014 and 60033 were all in the same condition (the first A4s, along with 60028, withdrawn).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

1955 rather than 63 .... but just had to post this.....

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I tend to agree about being "beholden to behemoths" but not just in storage of history, but economically.  I wonder if we are sleepwalking into an era of our lives' expenditure being dominated by perhaps half a dozen corporations.  But without drifting off-topic:

 

I am more optimistic about preservation of images though.  Yes some will get lost but we probably overlook how much film-based imagery is already lost.  I know so many people who when receiving their family snaps back, simply threw the negatives away.  Millions more images will have been lost to fire. flood, poor storage (slides especially) and the uninterested/unknowing family clearing a house after the death of a relative.   Perhaps it is upon us all to ensure that our images are backed up to two "sets of discs", one accessible to the family and the other with a trusted enthusiast friend.  The family disc would have that person's details ("to be notified in the event of my death" etc.).  Alternatively, we get it documented in all our wills that the images are to be passed or sold to one of the railway image libraries.  The latter might get the attention of the worst money-grabbing relatives, knowing they can make a few hundred quid from what they thought was junk, but at least the history is preserved.

Interestingly we all now have access to cheap self publishing. I find increasingly I make printed books of my best images (particularly of children) for posterity with headings and descriptions. Apple offer such a service as do Blurb ... there are others ... the quality is very good and the cost (depending on how big the book is) in the £20 range.

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

Perhaps I was a bit too criticising when I said the 69's have silly names - silly me - I stand corrected !!!!!!!!! (The one I saw, my first, was "Splendid" )

 

Anyway, loco hauled trains are a bit of a reprieve in our overall DMU / EMU rail scene. I plan to have a ride on one soon.

 

 

My thoughts, nice modern livery. Sides / roof / cab back / windscreen Ok - BUT the "cut off" flat front bit is the look spoiler, as are the odd shaped buffers. Pity she was not made at Doncaster, Derby or Crewe (Swindon wouldn't have dared to make this !!)

 

Brit15

I see them quite regularly out of Marylebone in what I find a much nicer livery .... I have always quite liked them - its nice to have a separate loco. The buffers are much less obvious when viewed from the platform.

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

For me functional and purposeful is exciting. And for me the class 68 has more style than the Wainwright which I don't find elegant. With artistry and style being a very personal and emotive thing I don't think it's a mater of one locos aesthetic design winning out. So there is comparison in the looks department.

Likewise I am far from convinced that it is a case of either/or. We all have our preferences. Personally I think the class 68 has merit .... though on the other hand I think one could argue there is a consensus beyond the bounds of this thread that the Wainwright is indeed elegant (whether it is to your taste or not). I have a particular liking for the style and elegance of  Johnson's slim boilered locos (as a set from 0-6-0  tanks through to the express singles) ...  which I think are very elegant and well conceived as pieces of aesthetic design enhanced by a wonderful and harmonised colour and lining scheme (not so fond of the class 68 on the livery front). However that doesn't preclude me seeing the merit of the more powerful stance and lines of the later compound. Ditto for Gresley's masterpieces or indeed a King or Castle class. Nor does it preclude me having a soft spot for the Deltics and indeed the 125s. It gets more difficult where the contemporary scene is concerned as  time and a retrospective eye can be cruel (as indeed it was to a fair number of steam designs if we are talking about pure aesthetics.

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 - bar one!