Chamby

10 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Tony and fellow followers of Wright Writes.

I have some disappointing news regarding Shipley MRS's exhibition layout Leicester South (GN).  The layout has been referenced several times on this blog and in particular by Headstock who has previously been a prolific poster to WW although in recent months it appears he has stopped posting.

 

The layout was the third large finescale layout to be built by a core group of Shipley club members.  Their first was Evercreech Junction and then came Tebay.  These layouts were all well received and popular on the exhibition circuit. 

 

Sadly many of the core finescale group's members have now left the club due to moving away from the area, old age or worse.  As a result there are insufficient members to stock and exhibit the layout.  As a result the club has reached the regrettable decision to dispose of the layout to recover the not insignificant space in the club rooms currently occupied by the stored layout.

 

Despite our best endeavours to find a new home for the layout no one has come forward.  As a result we will commence final disposal of the layout in the new year.  A great shame but I suppose this is the inevitable end for many a fine club/exhibition layout.

 

Regards,

Frank

It would be great if, before dismantling, the layout and its operation could be recorded on video and posted up on RMWeb.  There should be a ‘remembrance’ thread for layouts such as this!

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Thanks.

 

I am pretty sure that the speaker will have some indication printed on it but if not, then at least I have a rough idea as to what sort of reading to get.

Zooming in on the image in the Amazon ad shows that it is an 8 ohm, 0.5W speaker. 

51 minutes ago, Farang said:

An unwanted video is breaking into this thread when I view it, other threads, too.

You can avoid video’s and adverts popping up on RMWeb by either signing up to RMWeb ‘premium’, which costs £12 per annum (=£1 a month) or else installing ad-blocking software on your device, such as AdGuard.  

I used the software for a while, but found that it also had unwanted effects on other sites, so I have now subscribed to ‘premium’.  I feel it is a small price to pay for the level of engagement that I have with RMWeb.

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

...Yet a whistle, either from a loco or from a guard giving "right away" isn't just a noise, it is an intrinsic part of the operation if a railway. I have considered fitting a sound system under a station or a loco shed and just having a couple of buttons to press to give a guard or perhaps a selection of loco whistles. I am just not clever enough with electronics to do it and can't justify spending hundreds of pounds on it by buying existing DCC sound chips.

 

I do know some clever people though, so perhaps I may enlist some help one day.

If you are already using DCC, you can achieve this with a single sound chip.  Sound chips don’t have to be fitted into locomotives, they can be wired permanently across the track circuit and the speaker sited at a static location, with different whistle and horn sounds installed.  

In theory, multiple speakers could be located around the layout and a simple rotary switch used to select which location you want the sound to emanate from.  Under the track adjacent to a signal, or within a tunnel, for example.

Also, with static mounted chips, there are no issues re: speaker dimensions...

Retaining Walls

A minor milestone achieved today, with the installation of the arches at Leicester station.  The real station was raised above the surrounding cityscape on an arched viaduct built of Staffordshire Blue Brick.  After some deliberation about the best way to capture this in model form, I decided that the best approach would be to line the baseboard edge with a representation of the arches.  Once you start looking, there are a number of different manufacturers who produce these, in different materials and to different profiles.  The closest I found to the Great Central arches at Leicester, are the 3D laser cut versions manufactured by Scale Model Scenery... so I measured up and duly purchased 27 of them (nine kits of three arches) to line the front edge of the layout.

The kits as supplied go together very well, albeit a little time consuming.  SMS provide printed sheets of both blue and red brick, but after some experimentation I decided that I just wouldn't have the patience to laminate every piece of each kit, so I assembled the basic components in their raw MDF state, and painted them instead.

The kits were assembled on a backing board of 4mm ply, in runs of six arches at a time to simplify their installation and aid future removal for maintenance:

This old photo shows the baseboards before installation of the arches.  The accessory control panel was attached to the baseboard edge: I had to remove it, and reposition it below the baseboards:

The new arches installed along the baseboard edge, secured by sticky-backed velcro:

And a view from the other end, showing the resited control panel:

Not only does this improve the station area visually, but it also provides some protection should anything decide to leave the rails and head towards the baseboard edge!

I'd now like to replicate this process on the far side of the layout as well, though I won't need the full kit for this.  Perhaps I'll have a chat with that nice Mr Justin at SMS, and see how easy it would be to do a series of partial-kits...

Without wishing to prolong yet another DCC sound debate, the difference between steam and diesel sound projects needs a little further definition.  
 

Diesel sounds are relatively simple to install, assuming that a good quality speaker is used then they are often ‘plug and play’.  The body shape also tends to provide more scope for a larger speaker installation, enhancing the bass effect and improving the perception of a good tone to the sound.

Steam projects are altogether more fickle to install properly.  There is less space available in the body for a speaker, unless the tender is used - as is the case with most factory installed sound.  The best installations will place an additional small cube speaker in the smoke box to reproduce higher frequency sound at the front end of the locomotive, where it mostly belongs.

The other thing that most steam installations don’t get right is (perhaps bizarrely) how the sound file looks.  Whereas diesels just glide along, steam installations will only sound right when the sounds are synchronised to the valvegear.  Four chuffs per rotation for a 2 or 4 cylinder loco, six for 3 cylinders.  Not only that, the ‘chuff’ rate needs to continue to match the motion as the locomotive accelerates, until the speed at which the eye can’t keep up with the correlation.  This requires a level of programming skill that most modellers simply haven’t acquired… or bothered to learn, more like.  It also needs to be tailored to individual locomotives, I have transferred a well matched chip to a sister model of the same class/manufacturer and found that the motor has slightly different drive characteristics, so the synchronicity was out again.

I suspect that this lack of synchronicity is a significant reason why an otherwise excellent steam sound project just doesn’t seem to be right.  It can be done, but I’ve only rarely seen it achieved - including at premier exhibitions.

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

....  So, I'm sure poor availability of parts militates against kit-building, but the current RTR stuff is much more responsible for this in my opinion.

 

All the above said, I still prefer to make my own locos. If nothing else, they're unique. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Theres a bit more to it than that, Tony.  Accuracy is one thing, I suggest that robustness and durability come into the equation as well.  Brass versus plastic...?

How many super-detailed RTR models will still have all their ‘bits’ complete after a few years running?  My brace of Accurascale deltic’s are the most superb models, but with everyday handling those bogie chains and other details still keep falling off...  they require regular maintenance to keep that detail intact. 

If you build your own model, you know what has gone into it, and how to maintain it.  If the finely detailed valve gear breaks on an RTR model, how many owners can fix it themselves?  Often the solution will be to replace it with another example, rather than fix it yourself.   I suggest that the life expectancy of a well built kit, if the builder continues to own it and maintain it, will likely be much better than the average RTR purchase.

Your layout and it’s most impressive locomotive roster is the culmination of a lifetime’s work, both in terms of input effort and acquired knowledge and skill.  In my case, having started out with my layout build and accompanying model collection upon retirement, I haven’t had that luxury and therefore have a much greater dependency on RTR products to achieve my goals.  But RTR does make those goals achievable, and more!  The range, quality and availability of RTR has opened up a level of modelled accuracy and detail that significantly enhances my enjoyment of this hobby.  Yes, if it’s available RTR I will buy it... and modify every one to suit.  And with items like the A5 tank becoming available soon from Sonic models, the list of what I can’t buy off the shelf also gets shorter every year.

But are the RTR models better than your own kit built models?  That very much depends upon your assessment criteria.

This week is, apparently, National Tree week, formerly known as 'plant a tree week'.  Co-incidentally, I was impressed with the products of Primo Models as demonstrated on their stand at Warley last weekend, and bought some Larch trees to embellish the layout.  These are hand-made and much more realistic than the more widely available commercial products, and reasonably priced considering the work that goes into them.

So my contribution to National Tree Week - although perhaps not quite what the organisers envisaged, here they are on the layout.  Apologies for the poor depth of field, the photo was taken on my phone.  The largest tree still has its small ply base affixed, it is awaiting some plastic tube of sufficient diameter to accept its trunk, before being properly planted into the scenery.  I'm very impressed with these, and sorely tempted to acquire a few more...

https://primomodels.co.uk/

In the context of the post-Covid exhibition scene, attending The Warley show was an interesting experience.  I attended on the Saturday, with a couple of mates, this year as ‘general public’ rather than an exhibitor.  

Owing to the increased local accommodation costs we decided to travel there and back in a day.  First impressions weren’t great despite a smooth journey up from Cornwall, once we entered the NEC site it took 30 minutes of queuing traffic to park up, and for some reason we were directed to a car park with a much longer walk to the exhibition hall than in previous years, so we missed out on the benefit of early entry with our pre-booked tickets.

Once inside, on the Saturday at least, it seemed quieter than in previous years.  The aisles were wider, exhibits were more spaced out and there seemed to be fewer large layouts on display.  The general feeling was that the train strike hadn’t helped footfall, and fingers were heavily crossed that Sunday would be busier as a result - I don’t know if that actually transpired.

Re: layouts, a member of the modelling press commented that the Covid period had resulted in more small, single owner layouts being built over the last couple of years, larger group projects being impossible for a while.  Those layouts that were on show, however, were mostly of the usual high standard.

Was it worth the cost and effort of attending?  On balance, although it didn’t feel quite as impressive as previous years the reduced footfall made it a much more pleasant visitor experience: everything and everyone was easy to access and/or view.  The three of us all felt ‘yes’, we would still do it again, despite the 18 hour-long round trip.

It was interesting to see that even the big shows have a different feel after Covid - I hope that the numbers still added up for the Warley team at the end of the day.  Their efforts - and the hard work put in by all the traders and exhibitors - contributes much to the hobby, and is still very much appreciated.

On 24/11/2022 at 13:57, Pacific231G said:

Hi Tony

It is a challenge,  harder than representing snow,  but there was a Leeds tram layout* a few years ago that represented a wet day very well with puddles on the ground and judicious use of varnish as well ISTR as very flat lighting, rather muted colours and a slightly mistiness in the background. 

 

It was traditionally very hard to use actual water in TV studios  (too much electricity around) so the set designers concentrated on just making the scene look wet. Add the sound of rain and maybe  water running down a window in the foreground of a shot (far more manageable than trying to get more widespread rain)  . In any case, if you try to film actual rain you don't actually see the falling rain drops but you do see its effect on the ground.  That's also true with all but the heaviest rain if you;re just looking at it. It's raining here now but I only know that because there are rain drops on my window- I can't actually see the falling rain. 

Take a look at this photo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/34700681730

It's very obviously raining quite hard but you're not actually seeing any falling rain. Shiny road and pavement, people with wet umbrellas and macs, misted up windows of the tram, misty in the distance, very flat light, even the way people are walking,  all say what sort of day it is.

 

*I think it may actually have been called "a wet day in Leeds"

We're used to seeing falling raindrops in Cornwall - locally its known as liquid sunshine!  Here are some rather atmospheric raindrops captured on film... not in Cornwall, but on the SVR whilst on a driver experience day a few years back.

Nice work again, Trevor!  Some lovely attention to detail on the dries.

Co-incidentally I was just writing about Scale Model Scenery on my own layout blog at the same time you must have been.  We had an arranged visit there last week with the Bodmin Club:  Justin and his crew made us very welcome and showed us round their workshop and showroom.  The materials they use are of excellent quality, and their bank of industrial-scale lasers is both impressive and mesmerising!  I came away with quite a few bits and pieces...

A little more progress on the layout over the last couple of weeks, in between family visits... the warm Autumn has extended the tourist season down here in Cornwall, to everyone's delight but it has meant rather less modelling time than expected.  

I have been working on the second signal box conversion, again a modification of the Bachman Scenecraft model of the GC box at Loughborough.  I decided to be a bit more brutal with the Dremel this time to get a more accurate representation of the Leicester Passenger South box.  The original toilet, staircase and brick chimney were removed, and the box sliced in half just below the wooden walkway underneath the main windows.  The walls were raised by approx 2.5cm using plasticard sections to achieve the required increase in height:

It looked a right mess at this stage, fingers were crossed!  The windows of the interlocking room were given more prominent frames, in anticipation of the additional timber cladding, and some of the resulting gaps in the raised walls (my Dremel work is not pretty!) were filled with Liquid Green Stuff - a very useful liquid filler that hardens off in about 30 minutes and is easy to carve when set.   It's a Citadel product, used by wargamers and available from Games Workshop.  

Thereafter it was a case of attaching the cladding (plastic strip), making good the downpipes across the raised section of wall, fashioning a new stovepipe chimney, building a new staircase and adding interior detailing as with the first box.  I also added an LED under the roof, and wired it up ready to link into the layouts accessory bus. The result, after repainting and seen here temporarily placed on the layout, I'm quite pleased with:

The first box I modified has been renamed Leicester Pass Nth and now sits comfortably but rather less prominently at the other end of the station.   There's still a lot of work to be done with the signalling and all its associated paraphernalia still to install, so for a while the two boxes look the part, but sit in splendid isolation!

After a club visit to the premises of Scale Model Scenery last week I came away with some bits and pieces to work on over the winter.  We were made very welcome by Justin and his team, who plied us with tea and coffee, whilst showing us around the workshop and showroom.  I was very impressed with the quality of materials used, and the range of items they have: seeing so many of the models assembled and painted in the showroom is far more inspiring than looking at pictures in the catalogue, or browsing a bank of packaged up kits at exhibitions!

Firstly, some plants and park benches were purchased, which now reside in an awkward corner on the layout that has been turned into a small civic flower bed.  Also visible here is the (very) short tunnel and the main line where it runs, normally out of sight, behind the raised roadway.

Other acquisitions from SMS included more line side fencing, a long run of 27 blue-brick retaining arches and parapet walling for the station area, and a terraced house.  The latter is to trial assembly and see how I might be able to fit a terrace of housing at the opposite end of the layout to the raised roadway.  Provisional measuring up suggests that I will need a run of about 18 terraced houses...  more on that later, no doubt!

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Well, the petrol store is now installed on Little Bytham.............

 

 

This is the picture I showed earlier, with the store visible above the carriage.

 

I've tried to reproduce the shot in model form...........

 

 

Quite impossible exactly..........

 

Why not? Certainly not because the relative positions of the structures aren't correct, but simple physics (if ever physics could be described thus). No, the physics of my camera and its lenses. The camera's body is twice the size of the stationmaster's house, and I couldn't possibly get the same angle. I had to perch it on the top of the embankment, but the top of the embankment isn't wide enough.

 

So, this is the best I can do (I tried several angles). However, I don't think this diminishes the value of actually modelling a prototype location.......

 

Even though I'd moved the wooden planter beforehand when doing some videoing!!!!

A truly remarkable similarity between the photographs, Tony.  Though it does tempt one to play ‘spot the difference’... Which proves to be commendably difficult!  Just two minor observations then: the foliage on the far embankment, and the length of the ‘headshunt’.

That’s being really picky though, and to a degree of scrutiny that far exceeds what my own modelling can bear.  To achieve this level of accuracy in three dimensional modelling on such a large subject, is surely exceptional.

I seem to recall that, when reviewing the then new Thompson coaches introduced by Bachmann a few years ago, that Tony Spoke highly of the teak examples reviewed but lamented the absence of maroon liveried examples.

Whilst browsing through Rails’ website this evening, I noticed that they are now taking advance orders for a new batch of these coaches, in maroon livery, as part of Bachmann’s winter releases.  They got there in the end!

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

How's this for an interesting loco?

 

 

It's part of the Brian Lee collection. 

 

It was a non-runner. I'm not surprised. It had a Zenith motor from the dawn of time (with an eccentric worm wheel) and every time I tried to test it, it shorted out everywhere.

 

What to do? I have no idea who built/painted it (not Brian) but appears to have a much-modified Hornby 'Princess' body, with much in the way of scratch-building. It's sitting on a set of Comet frames and tows a Comet tender. So, I installed a DJH motor/gearbox combo, fitted a new set of Romford drivers (the originals had been altered on one side by breaching the insulation, but it was unsuccessful and intermittent), filed the front frames to give bogie clearance and made new pick-ups (the originals were dire). I also packed it with ballast. 

 

I'd not normally go to this 'trouble' in a loco from a collection I've got for sale, but I thought this was worth it.

 

It goes like stink now. 

 

I've got to paint the wheels and tidy up any odd paint chips, then I'll decide what to do with it....................

 

 

Did it come complete with the winding-up key, Tony?

Latest copies of both Hornby magazine and BRM arrived chez nous in the post this week.  They both seem very advert-heavy (possibly in the run up to Christmas?) and having flash-read them both yesterday I felt that they were rather light on reading material.  

I agree with Tony's comment that digitisation of print has made a big difference, enabling the big switch towards more photography and less written copy.  This it typified in the number of 'photo-sequence how-to' articles that BRM in particular seems to favour, but whilst this shows the process better, it does also make for a less absorbing read.  

Yes, a picture paints a thousand words.  But which is the more absorbing when sat in an armchair one evening with the magazine and a glass of wine?  Looking at a picture, or reading an article?  The reality, I suggest, is a balance of both - enough text to provide an absorbing read, and sufficient imagery to properly illustrate the article.   Although it can't be easy for publishers to maintain a consistently high standard month after month, after month.

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

A 9F at speed?

 

These do?

 

 

 

 

Presumably these are guest locomotives on LB?  I’ve been reviewing the former GC’s 9F’s recently and the tender types varied between regions:  I note that these are London Midland and Western region allocated locomotives respectively.  Eastern region allocated 9F’s typically had a BR1F tender with a higher water capacity.  I have gained the impression that over their short lifespan, 9F’s and their tenders didn’t transfer much between regions.

A browse through my reference books for the GCLE showed the majority of allocated 9F’s to be single chimney variants with the BR1F tender.  There is a photographic record of other variants, notably Western region 9F’s, working through to Annesley from Swindon, though even a Crosti visited for a while.  Evening Star apparently was ‘borrowed’ over a weekend by Woodford when she arrived with a train from Swindon one Friday afternoon in 1964, and given a spin up to Annesley on a ‘runner’.  She was regarded as a celebrity loco even then.

I find the intensity of this recurring 100mph debate quite bemusing.  There seems to be general agreement that City of Truro was very close to 100mph, A remarkable achievement in itself.

Thinking of it as 160.934 kilometres per hour, versus slightly less, tempers the frothing somewhat!

9 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

Knowing there’s a fair amount of knowledge among contributors here on ‘Wright Writes’ regarding the Great Central London Extension, I wonder whether anyone can help with a little conundrum I’ve run into, please?

 

After Nationalisation, the GCLE initially remained as part of BR's Eastern Region, but in 1950 a large part of it (especially the northern end) passed into the administrative control of the London Midland Region. Operationally, however, it remained run by the Eastern until 1958 when the ‘anomaly’ was adjusted and everything changed.

 

My query is therefore:  what regional colours would the station buildings and associated platform and yard signage have been painted in during this period, assuming they'd been repainted from a pure LNER scheme during the early 50s?

 

The obvious answer would, of course, be “Look at colour photographs” - but having tried quite a bit of that it appears suitable colour pictures from the early and middle 1950s are rather few and far between, and I cannot so far find anything thus dated that shows the stations south of Annesley but north of, say, Woodford clearly enough to put the matter beyond dispute; nor published written material that touches explicitly on the point.  After 1958 it’s very clear pretty much everything was LMR red and cream, not least because colour photography was becoming more widespread and affordable by then so there’s no lack of evidence; but of course that doesn’t help with how long they had been those colours.

 

Any assistance would be most appreciated, thanks.

You are not alone!  

What I have been able to discern is that Leicester Central was one of the first stations to be repainted in the new LNER colour scheme introduced in 1936/7.  The Eastern Region was also notoriously slow to repaint it’s infrastructure post nationalisation so I have used these colours for my own model, 1950-ish.  Exact rendition of the colour scheme at individual stations is open to some interpretation in the absence of colour photographs, But you might find the following link helpful:

https://www.stationcolours.info/london-north-eastern-railway/

4 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Oi

Shouldn't that be  !O ?

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Mick,

 

It might be 'sensible' to remove the DCC wiring, but how does one do that (with ease) when the connections are soldered to a decoder which appears to be glued inside a smokebox? I've tugged at the wires, but it just won't budge! 

Tony, removing the chips is usually straightforward and you should be able to preserve them.  Try to leave the wires attached to the chip and re-wire the loco if necessary, so snip the wires leaving a length attached to the chip, rather than unsolder wires from the chip itself.  Orange and grey will go to the motor, red and black to the pick-ups.  All the other wires are used for working lights, stay-alive, firebox flicker etc. which often aren’t fitted, so those wires are probably just hanging off the chip.

If a sound chip is fitted, there will be an additional two wires of the same colour for the speaker, often brown (ESU) or purple (Zimo).  Again you can just snip these if necessary, leaving a length still attached to the chip.

If the chip has a protective plastic coating attached to it, and the coating is glued rather than the chip itself, you might be able to remove it intact.  Otherwise the chip might have to be sacrificed.  

Just to say, John, that there are some really nice views along that beautifully flowing trackwork among your recent photo’s.  The ballasting and signals make a big difference, as will a bit more scenery when you get around to it (!)    Watching a train potter along the branch line must now be a very rewarding experience...

A credit to all the thought and effort you must have put into the planning and build.  

Proper job!

A few observations from the OP:

Re: catering, making a cash profit from it is not essential, if it adds value to the exhibition in other ways.  Better to have a burger and bacon butty van onsite, than have no catering at all... especially if you can negotiate exhibitor lunch vouchers with the proprietor as part of the deal.  

Re: fundraising, we have been able to tap into some interesting alternative sources of additional funds recently.  Our local county councillor has a fund to support local activities and events, as does our Parish Council.  There is also additional support for communities in ‘clay country’ here in Cornwall, following the local decline in the extraction of white stuff.  We have successfully tapped into these sources to fund materials and equipment for a new layout, and are also assessing the possibility of financial support for an exhibition.  So although things are getting tougher re: the traditional way of running things, there are other options out there.

I agree with earlier posts that holding an exhibition isn’t just about raising funds.  Ask the question, if your exhibition was just break-even in financial terms, would you still do it?  Is it a highlight of the club year, or a tedious chore of necessity?  If the latter, you should perhaps explore other funding options.

Getting back to the original question, before Covid we had maybe 6-8 outings a year, taking our club layout all over the country.  If we want to maintain that level of activity, the discussion so far seems to point us towards having something smaller, more manageable and with lower associated costs, so we can offer exhibitions either the ‘big’ layout or a smaller one.  We are also discussing among membership whether we would be prepared to accept additional personal costs for the privilege of exhibiting the big layout elsewhere.  We have mixed views on that, as you might expect - our members personal financial circumstances vary hugely.

But as others have said, time will tell!  Thanks for all your helpful and varied comments so far...

On 25/09/2022 at 01:59, St Enodoc said:

I haven't thought of a simpler way yet - anyone?

If the wire is long enough, you could insert an omega loop that can be eased open or closed, as required.  I haven’t tried it with signals, but it works with ‘wire in tube’ point control.