Steve T
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Posts posted by Steve T
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http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p661346788/h5C13D4D0#h5c13d4d0
I can only find that scrap line photo so far, and it is rather inconclusive.
http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p634483962/h18b1172b#h18b1172b
Here's another one of it with 860. If I were a betting man I'd say the skirts were a different colour but the photo is not entirely conclusive.
EDIT:
http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p634483962/h179afcc8#h179afcc8
Yet another, albeit even less conclusive. Although 864 is not mentioned, it's the in the centre of the photo.
Of note is the two phot's show both ends of 860 have a blue streak where rain water has washed the dirt away on its way down from the nose. 864 has no such mark - all appears brown.
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There's a book (forget which one) with a colour phot of it on the scrapline at Swindon and the frames do still appear to be brown. The rest of the loco appeared washed-out blue but below the solebar was all brown.
I think the fact all Western and Warship frames tended to get covered in brake dust and appeared to be beyond the reach of the wash plants meant it was not obvious the loco was any different to the rest.
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Would anyone care to have a stab at this one?
The 13:55 Paignton-Paddington takes the road for Westbury station at Fairwood Junction. August or September 1973 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrIt was probably taken in August or September 1973. The loco has "Swindon" electrification flashes and I can't see any allocation stickers (although that might be an illusion given the quality of the picture). The nameplate is almost entirely degraded to "noise" but I can sometimes convince myself that there is a suggestion of TALISMAN in there.
If i had to bet I'd say the nameplate suggests Pathfinder.
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Before the end of steam Andy - if I've got this right, the very last steam hauled Padd-Chelt'nam ran with steam as far as Gloucester Eastgate, with D1006 'Western Stalwart' working the final leg into Chelt'nam St.James. There are several well known colour photos of this working in various Hydraulic books, they're easy to spot as D1006 was running around with its 'marine' windscreen wipers at the time.
I think that was a tour rather than service train. Dad took a few of phot's of it, including a lovely one at Cheltenham St James with D1006 on the tour and a very tatty D1068 alongside on a regular Paddington train - I'd post it but it's his photo, not mine.
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There were two derailments in the area.The one was when a class 14 ran away from Avon Colliery and ended up through the catch points at Gelli Groundframe.The other was at Glyncorrwg when a Class 14 ended up going over the bank at the weighbridge.I suspect that the photo is at Glyncorwg as two cranes were brought in to put the loco back on the track.The derailment at Gelli was only a matter of lifting the loco back on but there were a few wagons piled up around the junction
I think we may have our wires crossed.
The phot of D6973 is with D9544 after the latter failed, not derailed. On the left of the picture you can see railings next to the track and on the right high level sidings. This fits Avon colliery at Abergwynfi, not Glyncorrwg (the latter was in a much more cramped setting).
Have a look at http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/GlamWest/Avon.htmand the photo of 9678 at Abergwynfi on Six Bells Junction (Y Draig Goch, 21/11/64).
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Brilliant weathering effect on that Western (D1042 Princess ??)- grubby except for the cab doors which are sparkling after being cleaned to prevent getting crew's jackets dirty ...............
More likely cleaned by said jackets brushing past...
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MAY 74 31. Class 52 near Dainton Summit, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrApril 1974. A short name. I think I can make out a final "E", which might suggest Duke. Is this consistent with a seeming lack of allocation stickers? I have seen pictures of 1043 in that year with stickers visible.
AUG 74 32. A Class 52 east of Bruton, August 16 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrThanks to the education I've enjoyed here, I think I've spotted the M-shaped cowl unique to 1065. Am I right?
Andy, the first one certainly appears to be Duke - Crewe loco, no stickers, short name, only Western with a name ending in 'E' other than Enterprise.
As you say, the second loco gives the impression of D1065's unique cowl and is it is definitely the right end for said embellishment.
It has to be said, it's been a bit of an eye-opener to me just how easy some Thousands are to identify with just a few clues - always assumed it was just the Warships that were so easy to pin down.
Great photo's, by the way.
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APR 74 20. A Class 52 near Scorrier, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrThere are quite a few clues: (1) Low-down electrification flashes (2) headboard brackets present (3) Sticker behind cab door (4) no obvious silver paint
After consulting Rugd1022's sticker data, the candidates seem to be 1009, 1016 and 1024. Can anyone narrow it down? It's April 1974.
Andy, you can rule out D1024 - it was withdrawn in early February.
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Here's a few more
APR 74 35. A trio of Class 52s at Penzance, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrI guess the middle one with the square vent could be only one of a few. I think the one on the right really does lack headboard clips - it is not a trick of the scanner.
APR 74 15. A class 52 on a Down train near Penponds between Camborne and Gwinear Rd by Andy Kirkham, on Flickr
APR 74 30. A Class 52 with an Up train about to enter Polperro Tunnel, April 1974 by Andy Kirkham, on FlickrAlthough this is distant, there are several clues: It seems to have a square vent and seemingly lacks headboard clips (although one perhaps can't be certain) and looks as if it is recently painted in April 1974.
I'd say the middle loco in the top phot is either D1056 or D1071 as the warning flashes appear to indicate a Crewe-built Western. On the basis the flashes on the engine nearest the sea denote a Swindon-built Thousand, it is one of D1005, D1025, D1026, D1027 or D1029.
Great photo's.
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Lovely shot - the only one I can see that 'fits' if the date is correct is D1048 which was released off Laira on 17th April '74, the nameplate looks the right length but according to Adrian Curtis the footsteps in the front valances were not painted silver as per the loco in the pic... needs a bit more investigation methinks!
Edit ; there are no other Thousands with a short nameplate which fit the date of the photo so I think Adrian has got it wrong regarding the footsteps on the valances.... my money is on D1048 and since there's barely a hint of exhaust muck on the roof then yes, it is most likely its first outing on the mainline after coming off Laira.
I reckon you're right. Definitely a Crewe loco and if you look closely the exhaust only stains the roof towards the coaches so looks like first working.
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Are these details from a public timetable or the working timetable perhaps? Based on the coach working diagrams, there was no loco-hauled train leaving Cardiff at 13:15 for Weston or anywhere else in October 1976. If you've got a WTT for this period that says there was a loco-hauled train, then fair enough, but it seems strange for it to be missing from the stock diagrams.
Public.
I would guess it was possibly booked a DMU but hauled due to either shortage of DMU's or capacity issues. The Marches went over to loco & stock around this time for the same reason. Out of interest, are the Cardiff - Crewe trains in the coach working diagrams?
Looking at the timetable (it was the first winter Saturday), there are no instances of two down trains being booked into Cardiff within 26 minutes of each other between 13:12 and 18:18 (other than where an HST is involved). Lighting conditions and the presence of what appears to be 1V92 certainly fit.
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Looking at my notes, D1022 was the second loco I saw at Cardiff, and Six Bells Junction says the Western Sunset tour left Newport at 0943. So 1315 would be about right after a leisurely walk to Ebbw Junction and back.
Was there a return working for the loco on the 1315 to Plymouth?
I ask because as it was getting towards dusk, D1022 returned to Cardiff. Sunset was 1730pm-ish that day, and I suspect that it would be between then and 1800 when I took this grainy photo of the loco on its second appearance of the day.
Of course it was a Saturday... but there's no sign of a 13:15 Cardiff - Plymouth in the coach working book for Winter 1976/7 either.
My mistake - misread the footnote in the timetable. It was a Weston train (no pun intended).
Taking into account the second phot it looks a fair bet to have been 13:15 Cardiff - Weston-super-Mare then 16:30 Weston-Super-mare - Cardiff. The latter was due in Cardiff at 18:12. Alongside is a Peak, and the 14:23 Manchester - Cardiff (a fairly soild Peak turn) was due to terminate at 18:18.
According to UK Weather, sunset in Cardiff on 9th October is 18:33, so that would appear to fit.
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14:25 SX Swansea - Cardiff looks a good bet. Due 15:27, 7 Mk1s, with BSK leading.
The 14:40 Fishguard departure only went to Swansea during the winter timetable, and was only a 4 coach formation.
Only problem is, 9th October was a Saturday.
I suspect it was the 13:15 Cardiff - Plymouth.
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The unexpected "fun" didn't stop at Swindon, because although by the time I arrived in Wales it was raining, the first stop was Newport and a walk to Ebbw Junction shed.
Imagine the surprise when D1023 turned up at Newport station with a railtour.
Poor lighting it might be, but I had no idea about railtour dates.
D1023 Newport 9th October 1976.
I was on that! We had it Neath to Plymouth, Totnes to Neath. Dad had a cab ride from Bridgend on the return as he was involved in the organisation.
Dad has photo's of my brother and I admiring D1023 at Laira after it had gone on shed for fuel. It is one of my few vague memories of Thousands in service (I was only four at the time!).
As usual, Six Bells Junction has the answers.......
http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/70s/761009_1.html
Five and a half hours in Plymouth - what would the punters have done to kill time ?
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Even Argyle were away at Blackpool that day.
Brian R
We went to Laira, then the Dart Valley Railway...
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I don't buy many hydraulic images nowadays as I have lots already, but this one did come my way:
D860_D823_D819_Exeter_1A39_7-9-68 by Robert Carroll, on FlickrThe image appeared in Railway Magazine in 1968. Apparently all three were under power and D860 was added between Plymouth and Taunton, possibly as a positioning move.
I vaguely recall seeing that in Dad's copy of RM.
Imagine the noise!
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In the Summer 1971 diagrams for 63's there was a pair booked to work the following -
1B55 06.55 Plymouth (23.45 Paddington) - Penzance attached to the train engine (T-THo 01/06-01/07)
6B57 11.00 Ponsandane - Bristol Temple Meads Goods perishables (same date)
1B28 21.15 Bristol - Plymouth attached to train engine (same date)
6V07 07.40 Plymouth (19.00 Kensington Olympia) - Ponsandane milk ets (SO 12/06-04/09)
1A65 13.45 Penzance - Paddington to Plymouth (same dates)
1V83 17.20 Plymouth (10.03 Liverpool) - Penzance (same dates)
SPARE AT PENZANCE SuO (Same dates)
2B15 07.25 Penzance - Newton Abbot to PLymouth MO (Same dates)
Whether or not they ever did this job I do not know.... but i'd love to find out if they did do the work...
Blimey!
Have to say it seems unlikely they worked that on more than a few occasions, if at all. I would have thought those Saturday workings in particular would not go unreported by that date but you never know. Saying that, there are relatively few photo's / reports of the 20:10 Exeter - Newton Abbot that summer and by all accounts that was a regular turn for one, sometimes two 6300's.
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Looks like they've missed the shedplate mounting on the bufferbeam. Buffer-hung steps are there, though.
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Hi Steve
Here's some additional info i've had about the Bridgend derailment from someone who was there 35/37/47/52 did work these trains but no numbers
Iinitially trains diverted via Aberdare but route was blocked in the afternoon/evening.
Trains were then diverted via Treherbert and Cefn Jct.
The first was 2000 Padd Fishguard followed by discharged tanks from Provan
Durning the night Milk empties,Carmarthen vans and Sleeper,Bristol mail and a parcels train passed westwards.
Eastward trains were Carmarthen sleeper and 2nd Whitland milk
Saturday morning saw the Fishgaurd boat train and oil train pass eastwards with tanks westwards.
All eastbound trains were assisted by class 37 locos from Margam Moors to Blaengwynfi or Treherbert using Tondu locos and crews with the bridge restriction at Natyffyllon removed.
On saturday afternoon a track defect was reported between Blaengwynfi and Cymmer so the line was closed and the passenger trains from Bridgend to Treherbert. 1340 Whitland milk reached Tondu but was sent back.
The plan to clear coal on Sunday failed because the main line was not reopened but the Aberdare route had.
The main line reopened on Monday morning but the Vale lines were still blocked An emergency connection was installed to the down main on Weds 22nd.
The Cymmer to Blaengwynfi section reopened on Mon 20th.
All blocklogs of traffic in the Tondu area were moved by 28th Dec.
Hope this helps
Gareth, that is fantastic. Really detailed, interesting information.
I had been told some trains went via the Vale of Neath but had forgotten (was Aberpergwm - Hirwaun reopened for these?).
Seem to recall also being told that following the catalogue of line blockages detailed above a least one overnight train with a Western was rumoured to have run via Llandrindod and Wellington to London.
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Continuing with Glyncorrwg and Paxman's, interesting shots showing (a) the recovery of runaway D9529, and ( B) a failed D9544 being rescued by a 'six-eighter' can be found here:-
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http://www.tymawrpublications.co.uk/Resources/Articles/10-16%20Brian%20Penney%20part1.pdf
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Brian R
Well, my old man's checked his slides and confirms the phot of D6973+D9544 is definitely at Abergwynfi, not Glyncorrwg.
Thinking about I doubt it could have been at Glyncorrwg as I suspect 37's were banned there due to the weak viaduct at Cymmer. That would also explain why 08's took over from Teddy Bears, not something bigger and faster.
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Altho' I was a regular at the lineside by 1965, my parents would have something to say if there 9yr old was slipping out for 05:00am.
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My notes and research start a bit later, and are at home - off the top of my head tho'..........................
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By 1971 there was a BCK on a Sundays only early morning Cardiff - Treherbert working that conveyed two GUVs off the 00:55 ex-Padd.
This employed a Cl.37 outbased at Radyr.
The BCK had worked up from Swansea earlier
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By then Merthyr had a parcels/news working that didn't have passenger stock attached,
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There was also an early Cardiff - Merthyr DMU that was only advertised to Ponty but conveyed mails to Merthyr.
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In the mid-60s there had been a (Sunday ?) Cardiff - Rhymney DMU with a 'swinger' on the back (e.g. ex-LMS 50' BG), but by 1971/72 that too was a DMU that also carried 'mails etc'
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In addition there were two loco hauled weekday Cardiff - Ponty parcels workings that could be a solitary GUV, and that was either a Cl.37 or Hymek, and later occasionally a Cl.25.
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Brian R
Thanks, Brian, interesting stuff.
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Hi
Yes the Teds were used on Cardiff to Merthyr Parcels by night worked by Radyr men, a few of the hands i worked with at Radyr use to tell me that they always stopped at Black Lion box to allow the engine to cool down.Teds also worked coal trains to Merthyr as well.here's 48 in Merthyr coal yard 66
Also Teds were outstabled at Treherbert sometimes.
Cheers GARETH
Thanks, Gareth. Sounds like this was the working I was told about.
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Was this a newspaper working? I think Brian Rolley's mentioned such things in the past; doubtless, he's checking his notebooks as I type this...
Not sure. All I was told was it was something which conveyed a BSK so could have been newspapers or parcels.
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Hi Chaps
Couple more for you
Peak and D9502 at Derby
D9527 BTM
D9527 AND 4f
D9521
cHEERS gareth
PS If your getting bored with just say and I'll stop
Whatever you do, please don't stop!
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Hi Steve
Yes i have i worked a few blokes who told me the sleepers, mail trains ran that way after the Bridgend derailment so it's very highly likely there were Westerns somewhere.
Also what about a Hymek over Crumlin viaduct,1963 a mate of mine who was a Signalman on the VON told me towards the end a Hymek with a Inspection saloon came up from the
Neath direction no photo sorry.
D1054 Western Governer took the Royal train to Merthyr with Queen after the Aberfan incident 1966.
I have photo somewhere of a Hymek on a breakdown train at Ystrad Mymach in 1967.
Thanks, Gareth. Good to have a second source.
On the subject of Aberfan, I used to work with someone from there who I asked about a Teddy Bear working I'd heard about twenty or more years ago. My original source told me there used to be a very early morning parcels train worked by a D95xx from Cardiff to Merthyr which used to work back at something like 05:00 and was available for passengers but was unadvertised (it had a BSK in the formation). Anyway, I'd never heard this mentioned anywhere else so had sort of dismissed it but the bloke from Aberfan said he remembered it - he was 16 in 1965, I think. I don't think it was advertised and understand it could only done back to Cardiff. Not sure which year(s) this is supposed to have worked but the fact two independent sources told me the same thing a couple of decades apart leads me to believe there is more than a grain of truth in it. Anyone got a working timetable from the period?
Waterloo - Exeter Warship Workings
in Diesel Hydraulic Group
Posted
When sorting out some stuff a couple of months back, I came across a set of diesel diagrams for the South Western Division I thought I'd lost years ago. Dated Mondays to Fridays from 4th October 1965 until further notice, the Warship diagrams (listed as 'D.800 Class') had the following passenger workings:
501.
09.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids
18.00 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo
502.
01.15 Waterloo - Plymouth (via Okehampton)
10.55 Plymouth - Salisbury (to Brighton, via Okehampton)
14.36 Salisbury - Waterloo
19.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids
503.
07.25 Exeter Central - Waterloo
15.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids
504.
06.20 Exeter Central - Waterloo
13.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids
505.
11.00 Waterloo - Salisbury
13.06 Salisbury - Plymouth (10.25 from Brighton, via Okehampton)
18.00 Plymouth - Newton Abbot
506.
06.33 Yeovil Junction - Exeter Central
10.25 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo
17.00 Waterloo - Exeter St Davids
507.
14.20 Exeter St Davids - Waterloo
There's much more besides, with Hymeks, 33s, 31s, etc. all listed, together with ECS, freight, light engine moves and driver duties.