Suffolk Rob

12 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Could be an N scale Class 60 though, maybe a Collectors Club job?  N scale Collectors Club models have been a bit lacking compared with the OO scale equivalents in recent years.

I rejoined about a year ago having let it lapse for this very reason

In that time they've released 3 from memory, 37, 101, 08. A decent offering in my opinion provided any or all are of interest. 

Compares well to what's been available if you joined as a "narrow gauge" member but I suspect that a quarry Hunslet must be in the offing soon as a collectors' special. Time will tell

Rob

This morning's  OO announcement as a bells and whistles (and sound) entry into N would be an excellent first step

Rob

7 hours ago, fguy said:

Last night, my cat pushed the clayton from the board to the ground (my fault, the locomotive was on the edge). A 4 feet drop 😲 . Many things are broken. The total price for spare parts is more than the whole locomotive. So I've ordered a new non sound fitted one and ... will make the surgery for the first time

Sorry to hear about your Clayton, I've been there and fully understand the perils of the shunting cat

Rob

Well I'd love a class 29 but wouldn't imagine it's a sensible toe in the water model.

If we're talking wagons I'd  love an OTA

If we're talking about shrinking something in the OO range then that means duplication although there are variations not offered in N as others have said. If choosing between 31, 37, 50 and 55 I'd look at 37 or 55 purely because of the lack of a sound upgrade in N. Of course they could be, and probably are in someone's  pipeline but, such is the enthusiasm for your models from the OO fraternity, and your reputation that I suspect most of us n gaugers would stick with you if someone else announced at a later date. Suspect it's the 37, with so many current untooled options that would stand duplication better. For me I'd like to see Scottish split nose or later DRS. Not all of the Scottish ones had the extra headlamp in a precarious position

Rob

18 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

The 25/3 has been out of availability for sometime and would be an obvious candidate for a retool with sound, but others have indicated that Farish don't feel they've exploited the current chassis 24/25 bodies enough yet which puts a sound class 25/3 followed by sound 24/25s a bit down the line.  The 37 given it is a contemporary loco on the mainline even today as well as the 47 should be obvious contenders for a sound upgrade, yet last year we had several dealer specials that are the existing tooling.

 

So with Farish it appears there are no guarantees of anything, which is why despite all indications that a much delayed 47 retool for a Crewe Cut should really mean a chassis upgrade too with sound, there could still be just a 6 pin DCC loco appearing in a few months.

I'd  certainly agree on the guarantees and there seems little consistency in the approach

It feels like there's only been a couple of batches of the new 25 and none for several years. Contrast with the 31 that went to upgrade after only one release including the addition of refurbished tooling. I suppose that allowed for exploitation of numerous liveries as we've seen with general and dealer special releases

Maybe there isn't the variety of liveries to do the same with the 25 but there are variations on green and the odd depot pet which Farish seem to like.

Ultimately you can only exploit tooling by releasing models but that just takes us back to the familiar and increasingly circular discussion

It does appear that the sound fitted stuff sells well unless the livery is particularly obscure. I do sense there's probably a few too many 08s at once but a quick re release of the staple blue and green is encouraging. There do still seem to be delays in some of the sound 08s, and some 31s too so I wonder if chip supply has also curtailed more sound upgrade Announcements

Who knows, not me for sure

Rob

Although it's impossible to tell with the move to quarterly announcement I have been wondering for a while if Bachmann are now focusing more of the farish development budget on sound upgrades than brand new tooling. It's speculation of course but it could explain why so much of the tooling, particularly steam, has not been used for a while if chassis upgrades are in development

There seems every possibility that anything scheduled may actually appear with a previously uunannounced sound upgrade, was this the case with the 4F, but of course some releases, such as the 37 buck that too.

I also wonder about much requested stuff like the 25/3. Would we realistically expect that without a sound upgrade to the 25 chassis.

Of course sound isn't for everyone but I would think there are sales in, for example, the first 66 in N with sound alongside a wide choice for dealer specials. Same with the 37 but perhaps the recent volume of liveries released suggests that's further away

But as I said, just speculation, my track record on predictions is not good

Rob

The e mail to club members describe it as "the largest number of new items to  be announced in a British Railway Announcements to date covering multiple scales and across the eras"

Make of that what you will but sounds promising

Hoping I'm not back here tomorrow with egg on my face

Rob

Great to see yet another n gauge exclusive from Kernow alongside their key part in the EFE n gauge releases to date

I hope they are all selling well and encourage further investment in N. These dries would be topped off nicely with an n gauge Well Tank!

Rob

I ordered a BR one, pretty much to see what they're like. I'd agree with everything PMP says above but the stand out thing for me, unless you're into fitting alternatives, over the Farish models is the coupling distance. 

It's just one of those things that the Farish models were one of their final models before NEM became standard for them, as it is with the 12T vans and minerals but the gap between wagons was always what drew my eye, ahead of the underframe detail.

Nice model that bodes well for further over hall of the range

Rob

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Just as I was sure of an 08 with sound (and now delivered) I am sure there will be another set of Peaks, don't forget the 44 (true Peak) in that list.

 

The 25/3, 44/45/46 will be in their plans, I suspect with all the noise over at Accurascale with the Deltics coming I do wonder if we might see something Deltic shaped with beefy speakers in N announced within the next 6 months - not one for me though.

 

Given there were 08s already awaiting when the latest announcement was made, is it possible that other new arrivals listed are also going through upgrades in the background and when they arrive they too might be Next18 with speakers - so a 24, 37, 47 and a 42 for example - great though perhaps I should consider upgrading my existing locos rather than a wholesale replacement.

 

Clearly it is cheaper to upgrade the existing chassis that go through whole design and build on locomotives, perhaps that is why there is a lack of new steam at present, though getting a chip into the 03 has demonstrated they can now do very small DCC ready tank engines and the 08 with sound proves medium size DCC ready tank engines can have sound too RTR.

 

 

Agree, Peak aside there doesn't appear to be anywhere left to go on diesels that seems compatible with the Farish business model. Steam, electrics, units being a different debate of course

All the sound models with the exception of the more obscure 31 liveries seem to have sold through so their focus is understandable, sound models aren't hanging around in their warehouse

The hope is that the sound upgrades also bring with them some new body shells such as the 25 without end doors, missing 37 variants etc. If they can add sound to the 08 they can do it with any diesel, 03/04 aside and maybe a question mark on the 20.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a sound 66, they seem to be typically slower of the mark on the new liveries than Dapol (my impression that may not be backed up by fact) and sound might tip the balance of 66 sales their way?

Whether we welcome that depends I suppose on our view of sound. I wasn't bothered but my 31 got me hooked. If  I'm correct on their strategy and we see a steady flow of sound upgrades I agree it presents a dilemma regarding my existing collection

Rob

12 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Also, as the 56xx already exists in N, then this statement would make no sense if the intended new model was a 4mm 56xx!

 

That said, even though everything Woodenhead said is correct, some early Revolution announcements about the 56xx were headed “our first steam locomotive”, so a bit of confusion is forgivable.

 

I’m a bit disappointed to see Revolution, of all companies, moving to the “4mm first and we’ll see about N afterwards” model, given how & why the company was set up in the first place. I suspect that the model will be too modern for me anyway, so I’m reserving more of my steam hopes for Sonic…who, after their J50 have also now decided to produce their next loco in 4mm only with no sign of an N follow-up!

 

Sometimes you wonder if someone’s trying to tell you you’re in the wrong game…

 

Richard T

But if it's an exclusive for Rails then surely it's about the scale Rails want to do it in rather than any move to OO first on the part of Ben & Mike. 

10 hours ago, mdvle said:

I suspect the idea that Revolution is not pursuing a business profit will come as news to the guys running Revolution.

My understanding from when Ben & Mike set up revolution was that they were specifically looking to facilitate models that might not be attractive to mainstream manufacturers and their pre-ordering/crowdfunding approach was to ensure they could cover the cost of research, tooling & delivery.

Accept that may have changed which is their business rather than mine. Important thing to me as a customer is that they deliver very good models at very reasonable prices

I'd agree that duplication is less than ideal but neither is an approach of "marking territory" and then putting models into abeyance.

Different management at the time as I recall but I vaguely remember the fanfare of Dapol's "magnificent seven" being coupled with information on how they could all be put into production v quickly and thinking that was about staking a claim. Can't now remember all of the 7, the 26 was one that did arrive fairly promptly but so were the 92 and Pendalino as I recall.

I don't see a problem for Revolution with the duplication- their focus is facilitating the 59 rather than business profit.

Duplication on this one model may be a good thing in the longer term if the longer-standing producers realise that announcing an intention will not stop some of the new boys stepping in where announcing is not translating into action. The risk of course is that Dapol's tentative steps into new N tooling may grind to a halt.

2 hours ago, Calnefoxile said:

Here's something to ponder, with Warley being cancelled and this usually being the Show that any big announcements are made, will Farish bring them forward to TINGS??

Or even before TINGS like Revolution

It's certainly thrill a minute in N gauge right now

Although I have a view on the lull, stagnation, or any other word for this period with little to no new tooling announcements, and accepting I have no understanding of the financing of models, I do find the choices of the few  reruns we are seeing a little strange

I don't know the number of production slots or finances available to Bachmann across the range in all scales for re-runs and that does of course have to be a hard-headed business decision as to how they slice the pie.

Thinking as a modeler who only pays for the model I buy rather than financing the whole run, it seems to make sense, for example, to have reasonably regular runs of Blue or Green 37s, 25s, 47s, 20s or whatever but I don't have to decide what that run is instead of, or what the relative returns would be for Bachmann and their relative profit margins across the range and scales.

But if it is about returns in the sense of models at least being on retail shelves rather than their own warehouse, and I had the choice of one similarly expensive to rerun (I assume) N gauge coach in 2-3 liveries, I don't quite get why they opt for the inspection saloon rather than say a Mk 1 Second in Maroon, Blue Grey and A N other livery. Assuming those haven't been run for a while, haven't looked recently as not something I'm after personally

But there is a lot I don't know about the business side of my chosen hobby.

Rob

14 minutes ago, TomE said:

Although today was undoubtedly a disappointment, I still think we are in that awkward period between the change in their announcement method. Look at the Class 47 for example. They’ve been working on that for over a year according to yesterday’s presentation, so what’s to say they aren’t doing similar with something in N. 

As someone who interpreted the Osborns feedback as some significant N announcements this time, wrongly as it turned out, I'll admit to feeling a bit deflated when I watched the announcement vid but I think the above from Tom goes to the heart of the matter. Bachmann are aiming to have products shipped within the 3 months covered by the announcements so if they can't make that timescale do they hold back or announce with longer waits (and we've been around the long wait discussion many times). Maybe I'm over optimistic but there is the transition period that Tom mentions not to mention a pandemic with all the effects on people and businesses. Personally I think it's too early to suggest the current lull is related to losing interest in N, as opposed to a unique set of circumstances that weren't predictable when they changed their approach to quarterly announcements.

They did announce the class 69 between the set piece events, and did it in parallel with the OO offering, that doesn't strike me as indicative of losing interest.

Of course I could be wrong, I was wrong on this very thread only yesterday! 

Rob

2 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Snag is that isn't this week's announcement the 'summer' 2021 one rather than the 'autumn' one? Is it for autumn arrivals? It might require another three months wait.

 

The last (May) one is on Bachmann's website as summer so assume this one tomorrow is Autumn- announced in summer for Autumn delivery?  Still, we'll know if it was worth waiting for tomorrow whatever it's called- let's hope so

On 05/05/2021 at 18:45, grahame said:

A distinct possibility. Maurice (from Osborns Models) posted the following on the N Gauge IO group as something he received directly from them:

 

I can also assure you that if you get asked and I am sure you will, Graham Farish has not been forgotten just wait until the Autumn launch, rest assured we have some very exciting models en route.

Seems a fairly reliable source but all will be revealed tomorrow

I recall reading somewhere, possibly a page or so ago in this thread, that Bachmann had indicated that Autumn would be a more significant announcement for N than the last couple

Based on the 50 year anniversary of Farish and what's in the OO range I suspect there may be a new tool 94xx as it was one of their earliest N locos. 

Sound for the 24/25 and 37, especially if accompanied by "missing" body types would be great, as would a DCC ready 08 but all will be revealed in a couple of days where, as usual, I will probably find I am way off the mark.

Rob

1 minute ago, Leicester Thumper said:

Going forwards, it's going to be interesting to see how EFE rail performs in terms of products and sales. I find it somewhat confusing, though, how they have released (so far) some ex DJM products in N gauge under the EFE tag, yet they could have just as well kept them within the normal Graham Farish range. it did strike me at the time as odd for why they would go through the expense of setting up a sub brand for that purpose. 

I don't know for sure but all the ex-DJM appears to be EFE distribution for Kernow. Whether they own the tooling or commissioned a run is a different question. The new clay wagon is a Kernow OO downsize so I'm assuming the same.

I think the new wagon and it's sales are key to whether we see more downsizing of Kernow's own stuff which I guess would continue to be through EFE with items researched and tooled by Bachmann themselves being in the Farish range?

Rob

1 minute ago, TomE said:

Don't forget that those models were in the last announcement to cover a whole year. This only covers the 1st quarter so there are still 3 more opportunities in 2021 for Bachmann to announce something new in the Farish range

Agree

Such a radical change in approach was always going to result in a fallow period in respect of new tooling announcements until the change works through.

Taking a positive view, when it does work through, EFE N products may give more of an idea of the future. No awareness to a loco and 2 wagons on the shelves in 6 months. Yes the circs of those models are unique but the first EFE new tooling in N is also due by May(?)

Rob

Have received an E-mail from retailer saying these are in stock along with the mermaids.

Sadly not the retailer I placed my order with but shouldn't be long.

Rob

50 minutes ago, red death said:

Love the application of logic from @Suffolk Rob!

 

The other two TPE Nova classes are quite different from the Mk5s - the 397s are CAF built but the other Nova sets are Hitachi 802s (Nova 1s). Kato will have the majority of the tooling for the 802s from early next year so would be the best bet to ask if they will do the 802s.

 

Cheers Mike

 

 

That's one word for it Mike

Still not guessed right yet though

Looking forward to tomorrow

Rob

Can anyone help me with a prototype question-Apologies for raising in the model thread, I did find the 800 thread in the prototype section but it's the thick end of 300 pages long 

The Azuma is the 800/2, the five car unit, as opposed to the 800/1 that Kato have not announced which is the 9 car unit?

So

Is a 800/1 just an 800/2 with extra coaches (n terms of what is visible on an N model)- not wishing to divert discussion onto "will there be an add on pack" but have a genuine interest in whether a /2 can be grown into a /1 should that happen

What routes do LNER operate the /2 on. My modelling interest is the Highlands but have only seen pics of 9 car units in Inverness

Rob

Was going to wait patiently for next week but if Mike is poised with sharpened pencil.......

Can't see it being something Bachmann has in their portfolio irrespective of scale, based on the chaps' operating model so prob not 117, peak etc

Mike and Ben have been clear that steam is not their area of expertise so not expecting that. I do expect more steam from Sonic and Revolution's facilitation of Sonic's entry into the UK market is a neat solution here. Unless of course they are thinking there is a gap and a market in applying some of the boundary pushing elements of the NGS Hunslet to a small steam industrial?

Modern (ish?) overhead unit- one already in the pipeline so would be surprised

I'd long thought there may be some collaboration and down sizing of the Kernow clay stuff but Kernow seem to be moving forward on this through the EFE route

73/9- would love one but Mike's been clear and the OO is still only at the proposal stage I think

So basically not a clue but......

A 21/29 was tried in Revolution's early days and, I believe, fell well short. I think that, to date, it's the only Revolution proposal that didn't make it. Often wondered, partly because I really want one, if the story would be different now with such a great track record in quality & delivery that has been built since the 21/29 was first proposed. Maybe this or the 28 is one for when the first powered transitional model, the Parcels Unit, is further down the line?

I'm far more confident that I will end up buying whatever it is than I am in predicting what it is

Rob