2996 Victor

Hi again!

Thanks for the additional info and the update on the R project - I'll make sure I follow the link to your thread, and I'll have a good look through previous posts, too. It's funny what sparks an interest, and how one thing leads to another - I can see myself embarking on a small SER/SECR layout in the near future!

Thanks again and best regards,

Mark

Hi,

many thanks for such a quick reply! And may I say what great progress!

The Class R with the domeless boiler and smokebox wing plates looks fantastic, and I presume the lined black was the Company's goods livery? I should perhaps admit that I know little of the SE&CR (other than the fabulous Wainwright livery, of course!), but my interest was piqued just yesterday by a detailed Wrenn R1 appearing on a Facebook modellers group page. A little net surfing followed and a search here on RMWeb found your blog entry, and being something of a dilletante, I find myself quite fancying one - particularly the 'R' now that I've seen your example.

May I ask, do you plan to make the Class R 3D-print available? Cos I'd like one..... 

Cheers,

Mark

Hi,

just found this blog entry - the R/R1 stud looks good - has there been any progress?

It's an interesting loco, but how accurate would you say the Wrenn body is, notwithstanding the moulded handrails and filled-in boiler, of course?

All the best,

Mark

What can one say, but "Superb!" and as always your back story garners a chuckle or two - poor Charlie! Make sure he keeps his dreams alive.....

Cheers,

Mark

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Fair comment, although there does seem to be some variation in the angles of DCI pushrods. The first key dimension is from bottom of solebar to brakeshaft axis. Here's what I was suggesting many years ago to Coopercraft (before it went tits up):

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for this, Miss P, I'd seen the post in the CooperCraft thread a while ago, but it's a valuable reminder.

I'm looking into the possibility of getting some DC1 brake gear etches, so if it moves forward, perhaps I could ask if you'd cast your expert eye over the artwork?

The BB brake gear etch arrived in time for the weekend.

Its quite nicely detailed, and I like the way in which the brake shoes and pushrods fold up - much, much easier that the individual parts on the Masokits fret.

But, and this is quite a big "but", the angles of the pushrods doesn't match those in photographs. The lower pushrods (right-hand end) are almost always nearly horizontal, whereas both sets on the BB fret are resolutely parallel. I say resolutely, as I tried a little gentle bending to see if the pushrods could be persuaded into a more prototypical alignment. Unfortunately, they just ended up doing an impression of a banana. Which is why there's no photograph.....

The parts are eminently suitable for my lever braked wagons, so the surviving three sets will find a use. But it seems such a shame that an otherwise well-designed fret like this has such a fundamental error.

All of which leaves me still looking for a good yet fairly simple DC1 brake gear, and the V5 making very little progress.

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Yes, completely agree. It would be interesting to do one of those 'eye tracking heatmaps' when people view a layout and the stock. I.e. what do the eyes acutally look at and for, and in what sequence. What parts of a layout forms our first impression of it, and do we notice variation in e.g. the standards of stock?

An interesting thought - I think you'd have to have some idea of the demographic as well, i.e. whether the viewer was a modeller or not.

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

That spidery effect is one thing I've noticed that does make a big difference to the impression of a wagon. I always admire it when people achieve it.

Sadly, I won't be able to do any more before the weekend (working away ), and having looked again at your DC1-braked O5, I've ordered a Bill Bedford etch to see whether its any easier to assemble (it looks like it might be) and what differences there are visually.

Which brings me back to the trade-off between time taken to build and accuracy. At the end of the day, if I can end up with something that's a clean and tidy job that looks the part, I'd far rather that than have a scruffy mess made from absolutely accurate parts!

The worry (for me) concerning the Masokits brake gear etch is that its all individual parts, which would be fine for a deft person, but not so good for someone like me who's all fingers and thumbs, so if the BB etch turns out all right, and your O5 looks the cat's pyjamas, then I'll happily trade up and go with that!

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mikkel,

you're absolutely right, of course, about being consistent, although I think there is room for a little variation in "standards" providing its no too much.

You can see in the photo where I've pared away the moulded safety stirrups from the kit brake gear. In the recent past I've done this and added etched brass replacements to give some semblance of the spidery effect of the real thing, and that had been my plan here until I got carried away.

Whether I'll carry on down the etched brass (eg Masokits) route depends on whether I make a reasonable job of this and how long it takes me! It is supposed to be a hobby, after all, not a form of penance 

I'm really rather eager to get some paint on it (don't tell anyone but it's going to be red!), but I need to curb my enthusiasm until I've at least got the stanchions sorted out and the axleguards in place. And the bonnet vents, too, of course.

Cheers for now!

Mark

Many thanks!

That's an excellent photo, and it's cleared up a couple of queries I had about the brake gear (having lost the instructions many moons ago!). The stanchions' tuck-unders are one of those things that I knew in the back of my mind, but then promptly forgot to do anything about at least I can still add them without too much trouble.....

On 22/08/2019 at 22:52, Miss Prism said:

 

It says new opens probably only received patches of red-brown for markings. Not sure about ironwork - black would be the most obvious, but I've never seen a pic of the treatment given to wagons built between 1942-5, and remember that only new-build was affected (so O30 and O38 and V34 and V35, for opens and Minks), and there is nothing to say that grey was discontinued. It's probably a case of whatever pot of paint was handy.

 

I think it very unlikely existing wagons were repainted in WWII.

 

Many thanks - agreed about new-build vehicles only being likely candidates. Was not O30 the all-steel diagram?

If you'll forgive me for quoting the GWR.org passage verbatim, it says in full:

"In the latter part of WWII, new goods vehicles are reported to have been painted in a reddish-brown colour, probably the same colour as that being applied for coach repaints from 1942-5, with open wagons being mostly bare wood with reddish-brown patches for markings. It is likely this livery applied only to new vehicles – repainting of older stock was most improbable. The normal grey livery was resumed after the war."

which implies (to me, at least) that while the woodwork was left unpainted (apart from the patches mentioned for serial number etc), the ironwork and underframe would have been painted. The ironwork would have been far more valuable than the woodwork, and surely some degree of preservative paint would have been applied? Which, given British Railways' treatment of newly-built stock in the early '50s, seems not unreasonable.

I would have though that black instead of grey would have been unlikely - presumably stocks of white were available to mix grey, in which case why the red - but as you say, it was probably a case of whatever colour was available.

Cheers,

Mark

On 21/08/2019 at 17:26, Miss Prism said:

Two more pics (the first of which was my original gwr.org reference before discovering the above wiki pic):

 

 

 

 

A deep red oxide with a slap of varnish describes it very well. (There is negligible blue in the colour, cf maroon, which has a significant blue content.) 

 

Edit: I've subsequently re-instated/added the urls for the above pics in the gwr.org livery page.

 

Thanks for adding these - they definitely show it as being a different shade to previous GWR and subsequent BR colours.

Apropos wagons, the passage on GWR.org says that open wagons built at that time were "unpainted", which presumably refers only to the wagons' sheets. So equally presumably, ironwork was (all?) painted in austerity red.

Please forgive me, as I don't currently have access to Atkins et al, but we're there any covered vans built concurrently, and if so what was painted and what wasn't?

I begin to think this needs it's own thread?

All the best,

Mark

Hi Mikkel,

I had missed the link, so a big thank you for including it!

The colour of the coach is a somewhat muddy lake, isn't it? One might almost say it's "red oxide primer with a coat of varnish".

It's interesting from my perspective as a couple of wagons finished thus would make for intriguing variety on my planned counterpoint 1950s layout.

Pondering the ins and outs of such a thorny issue over a cool beer is what life should be all about, in my humble opinion! Now, where's the waiter.....

All the best,

Mark

On 02/03/2011 at 15:03, SteveBedding said:

.....they also reverted to a 'reddish-brown' in 1942 as an austerity measure.

Dear All,

Just been re-reading this particular blog entry (whilst reclining on a sun lounger in Malta and enjoying a pint of Cisk ), and picked up on this comment from SteveBedding - I'd never heard of this wartime austerity red, and would be fascinated to know more.

Has it been discussed here on RMWeb? I've not managed to find anything (yet).

All the best,

Mark

Edit - I've found brief mention of this livery on GWR.org, which was probably the same shade as contemporary coach repaints.....which was what?

11 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Mark - a 40 thou floor isn't going to do you much of a favour in respect of showing the bottom plank on the inside of the wagon, which is why Mikkel chose 20 thou.

 

A floor won't bow because it is rests down and is fixed to the solebars. The floor doesn't need to have any strength. It helps if a floor has any bow bent out of it before putting it into the body of course.

 

 

Thanks, Miss P - sage advice, as always! I've ordered the equivalent Evergreen grooved sheet in 20thou' and suitably braced as per Mikkel's wagon, it should be fine of course 

All the best,

Mark

PS do you happen to know a Canon Chasuble, by any chance? 

Hi Mikkel,

Superb work, as always!

I've got some 20-year-old Masokits DC brake gear etches I was planning on using, so I'd be interested to knowo how the Bill Bedford DC brake etch worked out? It certainly looks effective.

Did you scribe your new floor yourself? I've got some Evergreen 40-thou grooved sheet to use, but I'm a bit concerned about it bowing.

Best regards,

Mark

Given the discussions elsewhere on the Forum regarding internal ironwork - side knees and washer plates - that ought to be visible on open wagons, I begin to feel the need to revisit this model.

Being a drop-side it wouldn't, presumably, have had side knees, there would/should be internal washer plates for the external end pillars and door hinge straps. So I need to decide whether to take the easy way out and just give it a full load of ballast, or spend a little bit of time adding the ironwork.....

53 minutes ago, iak said:

The author of the article would be pleased to hear that you have used it. Sadly, he is no longer with us but he knew a thing or two about wagon construction.

Mr Goodwin wrote other articles as well around that time that you might find it interesting.

Hi,

yes, Dave Goodwin was a frequent contributor to RM, wasn't he? And other periodicals, too, I imagine. I recall being extremely taken with his article on detailing Mainline's 57xx.

This particular article has always interested me - it's been in my clippings file for many moons now - so I'm quite pleased to have finally have made something from it.

All the best,

Mark

Excellent work! Just out of interest, whose markings are they? I was thought that the "green" Eindeckers were flown by the KuK Luftfahrtruppen, although memory is a bit hazy!

Cheers,

Mark