Nearholmer

Wasn't KESR livery deep ultramarine blue, lined red? Anyway ......... 30+ years ago, when researching the history of obscure narrow gauge railways in East Sussex, I was directed to a very old lady who lived in a cottage in the middle of nowhere, about five miles from Crowhurst. She told me all about a little railway at a pumping station, which was what I was interested in, but then produced a half-crown from a drawer in a sideboard. Said half-crown had been given to her father as a tip,when he delivered No.3 Bodiam, on the last leg of its trip from Brighton to Robertsbridge, for handover to the KESR, the gentleman in question having been a driver at st Leonard's shed. It must have been a mighty sum of money, but he'd been so proud of it, that he'd passed it on, rather than spent it. My surmise is that the old lady has passed on by now - let's hope that the half-crown and the story have been handed down to her descendants. Kevin

Gents This topic has been causing debate for many, many years, perhaps since the last Stroudley-liveried loco was repainted. "Como", and two contemporary models that are in the museum at Sheffield Park, and are said to have been painted with genuine LBSCR paint, are often cited as the key references. Not sure if it has come up yet, but whether they should be called "Terriers" or "Rooters" usually comes up too. The term "Terrier" was certainly in common use, and was used in the engineering press, while the locos were still being built, but I'd be interested to know what the date/source for "Rooter" is. Kevin

Many thanks Gentlemen. Somehow, I overlooked these very useful replies, and pestered StationMaster into a long explanation on another thread. I now feel able to talk about this topic without confusing myself and others in the process! Kevin

John No worries - and it looks as if my suspicion that we agreed was well-founded. I really do think that the art is neglected, and perhaps partly forgotten, though, a theory which can be tested by looking at the balance of content magazines, and even on this forum. Here, for instance, I notice that a thread about "realism" is really about that facet of realism perceptible in photos. I think that there is a strong possibility that a newcomer could get the impression that this hobby is solely about photo/dimensional accuracy, which, of course, it really isn't. Kevin

JohnArcher "The trouble" I was referring to is that designing for operation, within realistic space constraints, seems to be a neglected, if not forgotten, art. And, I think that part of the reason it has become neglected, is that photo/dimensional accuracy is frequently emphasised above all else. Which is not at all the same as saying that "operation is more important than appearance" or that people should be forced to pursue their hobby in a way that they don't prefer - both of which you appear to accuse me of saying, when I don't. I'm more than happy to exchange perspectives, and I have a suspicion that we may actually agree with one another on a lot of this, but please don't ascribe to me views that I haven't expounded, and, as it happens, don't hold. Kevin

Fascinating stuff, which I've been following from afar for a good while. Techie question: Is much known about the original control arrangements? I'd really love to understand how the engine-generator-motor combination was operated, was their field control on the generator, for instance? Superb project! Kevin

Gents Strangely, I think the trouble really set in when people got more hooked on attempts to build scale (even compressed/selective) models of real stations, rather than design their own, in a railway-like fashion, to suit the needs and constraints of railway modelling. Buckingham, Borchester, Paddington-Seagood, and good few others, including plenty of CJF designs, are very much freelance in many senses, but can be operated like a significant section of a real railway. The key paragraph in Paddington-Seagood talks about a "representative selection of operations" and the author talks being happier to run short trains operated properly, rather than longer trains not, if faced with tighter space constraints than he was faced with (not that a billiard-room really counts as a space constraint!). Rediscovering the "three coaches, headed by a 4-4-0" formula has certainly cheered-up my train-playing, and I think it could cheer up a lot of other people's. Kevin

Mike Perfect! That seaside outing picture is exactly the sort of thing that I want to reproduce; I have a picture taken in Summer 1939, showing some dim and distant great-uncles, on an "pub outing", everyone standing on the shingle in front of the 'bus. The trip must have been a long one, with many refreshment stops, because they went from near Tunbridge Wells, to Southsea! Many thanks again, Kevin

That Gaz truck looks mighty useful, thank you. Just to reassure me: the AA was produced in the UK, not just US and Russia? Kevin

Good pointers, Mike, thank you. I'm a bit of a duffer when it comes to road vehicles, don't know makes/models, so I will need to swot-up on what the most common "light truck " chassis was. Horses and carts? I barely know one end from the other! Volumes? How many members of the GOG are there? I reckon you could sell one to each. Then diecast collectors. Kevin

Is that a "gloating" emoticon? ;-)

This is nothing other than a cheeky attempt to get special pleading in front of Messrs Oxford Diecast, on the assumption that they might read this thread ........ Pre-WW2 commercials in 7mm scale. The Austin 7 van is superb, and it would be great to have some slightly bigger vans, open trucks and lorries. I'm not sure what the equivalent of a Ford Transit chassis was in 1932, but that is the sort of thing that I have in mind, and a lot of other 0 gaugers would welcome too. One chassis/cab, but with several options on the back. And, a more radical thought: coal merchants are a feature of zillions of railway goods yards, and they used horse-drawn lorries (technical term might be drays) until c1960 in many places. Could Oxford run to a 7mm scale horse and coal lorry? Anyway, thanks in advance for thinking about these ideas, Kevin

Excellent stuff! There is a serious danger that I will get tempted out of the fun, clatter and approximation of coarse-scale, and back into the stern discipline of fine scale by this sort of thing. Kevin

Having a quick look at this thread, because with the local heroes letting us down 0-2 on Saturday, followed by two days of pretty much uninterrupted rain, I needed a reminder of why emigrating might not be the first option. Reassured. Thank you, Chaps. Kevin

Just stumbled upon this - marvellous piece of work! Most realistic horrible weather that I've seen on a layout, and it's clearly set in "the good old days", before central heating, double glazing, and decent insulation. I remember ice on the inside of the windows, and swapping from pyjamas to school uniform (shorts, naturally!) under the blankets on mornings like this. Kevin

Looking good; it shouts South Eastern. I agree that the SR "light stone" is a difficult colour to get right, but I also wonder if we get misled by BR(S) having adopted a slightly lighter shade. Anyway, the opposing forces of dirt, making it darker, and the sun, bleaching it lighter, probably give plenty of latitude! Kevin

Dear Eminences Gris I seek your guidance in the matter of FPLs and locking bars. In some places, a locking bar actuated by the train wheels to operate FPL. in some places an FPL operated by a lever at the 'box or GF. MoT Regs & Recommendations 1950 addition has a section entitled FPLs, which then seems to talk only about locking bars, not about FPLs operated by a lever (I admit that I may have misunderstood what it is trying to say!). Why the differences in practice? And, was there a change in thinking or legislation away from locking bars at some date, and if so, why? This is not an IRSE exam practice question, I'm just more curious about the topic than is really healthy for a grown man. Kevin

Thanks, Overner. Yes, could be. And, if you look in the background behind the loco, I think there is a pile of concrete troughing lids, which would be just the sort of thing kicking-around during electrification works, which were just coming to a conclusion in 1937. K And, thanks Fay, too. That seals it. The loco would have puffed past by Grandparents' home as it left Hayling, wherein was probably my Grandmother, who was imminently expecting the arrival of my mother in summer 1937. Photo credit to Sidney Perrier, August 1937. I just found a load more of his work on Flickr - remarkable!

Thanks, Overner. Yes, could be. And, if you look in the background behind the loco, I think there is a pile of concrete troughing lids, which would be just the sort of thing kicking-around during electrification works. K

Overner Fascinating picture of 2644; can I ask where it was taken? If you want to see the sort of Terrier us coarse-scalers are running, have a look at my thread as linked below. BTW, Dapol have got the brake blocks right on the Stroudley livery ones. I think that only the last few had iron brake-blocks from new, "Crowborough" for instance, and the rest were converted as time went by, so dating ones layout to match "Waddon" as supplied by Dapol might be an important question. Coarse-scale Terriers don't have brake-blocks, so layout-dating us less of a challenge. Kevin

Having looked at the pictures of the acorn from which your layout is set to grow, I was mightily impressed, and will follow what comes next closely. I will promise to keep quiet on the signalling front, having already given my threepen'orth. If you do decide to expand this into a multi-location empire, can I put in an early vote for something inspired by the Rye Harbour branch? One of the most fascinating bits of shingle in Britain, the Rye Harbour area, and you'll be relieved to learn that it didn't have any signalling at all. Kevin

Pete I understand all of that - what is good for the real railway isn't always the most entertaining to create or operate in model form. If you want to go to the other extreme, a station that was, before the SR got at it, madly over-signalled was Heathfield, in Sussex. It had miniature semaphores to control every conceivable, and many inconceivable, moves, and I always think that Messrs Saxby and Farmer must have laughed all the way to the bank when the cheque to pay for it all arrived from their former employer, the LBSCR. Kevin

Fascinating concept, and great locale in which to set it. I'm no signalling engineer, and my rule book grasp us a bit flaky, but my reaction on looking at your plans was that I felt a desperate need to economise, in true SR fashion. This is the middle of nowhere, and it is bristling with expensive signalling ........ Do you really need 5 and 10? Could you get away with 11 points being in "terra incognito", so simply spring/hand worked,maybe with a sprung trap (hand closed) to protect the platform road from a runaway entering controlled territory? Why control 6 points from the box? You mention an advance starter - why do you need one? "The Board also request that you submit, to its next meeting, an evaluation of the cost savings, andv operational implications, of working this final section of the line under OES arrangements, and demoting the signal cabin to a GF, released by a key carried by the Guard. Every penny counts!" :-) My thinking is that, with judicious shunting, you might be able ensure that all departures are controlled by 8, and that, if you want to have two trains at the location simultaneously, there might be provisions in the the SR rule book! or precedent in a Sectional Appendix, to permit a goods train in possession of the staff/token to enter section from a siding under flag control by the signalman, rather than the control of a fixed signal, I'm not sure. Beluncle Halt, and the runaround points at Hayling Island might be worth a look. The answers might depend on whether you want it to look "SECR, before SR economy drive", or "post economy drive". Meant both constructively and humorously. Kevin PS: just remembered Leysdown, signalled by a bean-counter after my own heart,mand very similar to your track layout http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/sre/R1852.htm

Is this 4mm scale?! It is quite incredibly finely detailed - "museum quality" doesn't do it justice. I could smell the creosote, brake dust and oil. One thought, going right back to the first picture, is that side-ramps for "running on" were avoided, if possible, because they tended to get out of alignment and knock shoes off. I recall them being permitted for low speed areas, but not at all encouraged. So, are they really necessary in this location? An alternative might be a gap and ramp-end. Incidentally, the way that CR layout designs were tested for "gapping"" in reality was to run little cardboard trains, with shoes positions marked accurately on them, all over the place, on 40ft/inch layout drawings. Anyway, brilliant work, and that from a dedicated coarse-scaler! Kevin

Martin It is a truly wonderful book. I have been dimly aware of it for decades, but only got the chance to read the whole thing, and look at the photos, quite recently. What really cheered me up was how many times I found myself "reading my own thoughts", if you understand what I mean. I long ago worked out that the ideal "one person" (with visiting friends) layout would have two termini branching from a continuous run circuit, ideally at an interesting junction station, and, blow me ....... My own layout tries to follow this principle, but because of space, time and money constraints (redundant billiard rooms are pretty rare around my house!) the continuous run is single-track, and the trains are short; it is designed around a tank engine or 4-4-0 hauling three coaches plus a four wheeled van, although it can accommodate a pacific with five on the continuous part). Last week I actually demoted the smaller terminus to become a fiddle-yard, and it is now very similar to a CJF plan called "Zeals". If you put "Birlstone" into the search thingy on the forum, you will see how (not very) far it has progressed since I started it in October 2013. Kevin