Ray Von

Morning! Changed the title, and perhaps the mods might want to move this to a different sub-forum too? 🙂

41 minutes ago, whart57 said:

This is interesting.

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_N_2HAP.htm

 

I know Allen Doherty and I've built some of his stuff. I also know a lot of others that have. Basically the kit is an overlay over a commercial coach. So you get a suitable coach - probably a bit of battered second hand - cut out the window separators where they are in the wrong place, smooth down all surface detail and then stick on the new sides. Put the glazing back, and then fit a motor bogie, again that could be the works from a second hand job.

I have lots of older farish coaches, this is indeed interesting.  I can't view the site fully as I'm on my mobile at the moment, so no images sadly.

*Edit: I've emailed them - looks just the job...

27 minutes ago, whart57 said:

 

 

That will be a Tonbridge to Reading service via Redhill, Dorking and Guildford. These days that is a First Great Western franchise so I suspect there have been times when it was operated by BR(W). According to Wikipedia Class 119 and 109 DMUs were introduced to the line in 1979 and NSE's DEMUs withdrawn in 1981. Redhill to Tonbridge was electrified in the 1990s and Reading line trains ran to Gatwick Airport instead.

Would it be a huge stretch to have these on my Reculver to Canterbury line - theoretically....? 

This Class 114 seems a long way from home - I've seen a few of these in N gauge...

That's great thank you! 😊 

There's not a lot of N gauge DEMUs on the market sadly.

On 17/04/2024 at 17:13, whart57 said:

The London Victoria via Canterbury service is a long way over SR  electrified lines for non-electrified stock. How about your day service being Reculver to Hastings? Linking the Canterbury West to Reculver and the Ashford to Hastings via Rye DMU services by the relatively short link over the electrified tracks between Canterbury and Ashford might be a better use of shift times and DMU running times than a short shuttle service. You could explain this away by suggesting it allows some Ramsgate to Charing Cross services to run non-stop between Canterbury and Ashford as the Reculver-Hastings service acts as the stopper for Chartham, Chilham and Wye.

Doing a little period research and struggling to find info on DMUs in this region, should this read "DEMUs"? 🤔

4 minutes ago, whart57 said:

That would be the junction of the line to Sheerness.

Quite right, I found an interesting short video on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/rGR9mhO1GAQ?feature=shared

Just to satisfy my curiosity I went on a hunt for a section of line that would fit the theoretical layout of my "off stage" two track junction.

I found this between Sittingbourne and Newington:

Here is the east junction:

The west:

And this is where they rejoin at the apex:

All purely academic of course, but interesting to see. 🙂

2 minutes ago, whart57 said:

Well not exactly like that, there would need to be crossovers to get trains running onto the correct lines.

 

The reasoning for a spur to Ramsgate is that that is where the loco sheds - in steam days - and EMU stabling was. So for empty stock movement

But the lines would have to cross at some point?

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

I can't resist interfering 😁

 

 

In my scenario the non-electrified line to Canterbury via Grove Ferry is single track, so I've made that your simplest in and out from the top line of the fiddle yard to Platform 1.

 

Platform 0 is for parcels and side loading freight and the factory siding is on a kick-back. Incoming freight though is from one of the Faversham lines in the fiddle yard and has to route over two points to reach its unloading point.

 

Platforms 2 and 3 are your London services via Faversham. However the line is double track so outgoing trains should swap over to the right running line. But you could imagine some carriage stabling sidings a bit down the line which involve a short distance of wrong line running as well.

 

Finally, if you have room it might be nice to have a disused platform 4 with the track lifted just as a scenic feature. A not unheard of feature of the 1980s if I recall. An extra touch might be to have retaining walls along part of the outside of platforms 1 and 4 to suggest an overall roof was once in place but has been removed for safety reasons.

It looks good and I wish I had the budget / space to do it! 🙂

I have a query re: the London via Faversham lines (since the latest RMweb update all previous images have been lost sadly.)

I'm trying to recall the theoretical layout of the "spur" that connects this layout to that line???

Something like that??

A little scribble. 

I've moved the points into the scenic area, this could add a little more visual interest (waiting at red signals, allowing priority etc?)

The wiring of stop/start/slow sensors etc is a bit daunting though.

10 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Have the freight propelled in to the depot from the local yard which is just off-scene 'up the line'. You might, or might not, need a brake van at the front of the propelling move depending on local circumstances as shown in the Sectional Appendix.

In the Bristol area in the 1980s freight traffic was propelled from Lawrence Hill yard along the freight only Avonside Branch for about a mile to Avonside Wharf, there being no run-round facilities at Avonside. Also in Avonmouth the Rowntrees warehouse at Avonmouth was served by a trip working that then propelled back (right line) for about two miles to Hallen Marsh due to the track layout at Avonmouth. Both moves required a brake van at the front of the movement in which shunters and guard rode as they both crossed gated road crossings.

 

cheers  

That sounds like a great solution, I love this sort of information! 

3 minutes ago, whart57 said:

The real Ashford Hastings was a DMU

Many thanks, so I'd have a brace of DMUS running off platform 2? 

29 minutes ago, whart57 said:

The London Victoria via Canterbury service is a long way over SR  electrified lines for non-electrified stock. How about your day service being Reculver to Hastings? Linking the Canterbury West to Reculver and the Ashford to Hastings via Rye DMU services by the relatively short link over the electrified tracks between Canterbury and Ashford might be a better use of shift times and DMU running times than a short shuttle service. You could explain this away by suggesting it allows some Ramsgate to Charing Cross services to run non-stop between Canterbury and Ashford as the Reculver-Hastings service acts as the stopper for Chartham, Chilham and Wye.

Would this be another DMU or a diesel commuter loco?

On 16/02/2021 at 08:21, whart57 said:

 

Some minor corrections and tweaks if I may.

 

Platform 3 and 4:

1. Victoria via Chatham and Bromley South - fast train, probably hourly
2. Charing Cross via Strood and North Kent line - slow train probably hourly
3. Cannon Street via Chislehurst and Hither Green - fast peak hour service, probably only one or two a day

Cannon Street was really a rush hour only station. It closed at weekends and had a very sparse service during the day. Your period is pre-Big Bang so working in the City was very much a 9-5 job

 

Platform 1 and 2:

1. Dover Priory via Minster and Deal - all stations stopper, probably hourly.
2. Victoria via Canterbury, Ashford and Maidstone East - semi fast, four trains daily between 10 am and 4 pm
3. Schools shuttle to Canterbury West - once daily leaving at 8.15, returning at 4.45

I see the Victoria via Ashford service being more a way of giving stock that provided extra peak services something better to do than festering in a carriage siding at Hither Green all day. (And unionised train crews doing some work running trains rather than filling in the Sun crossword in the staff canteen)

 

You would also need to work in some empty stock workings from Ramsgate since you don't have stabling at your Reculver. Which is an interesting point given that your Ramsgate link comes in on the wrong side of the station for Victoria services and I don't think you have a connection between the two sides. I need someone to tell me whether Faversham would be the serving depot for the LCDR side or whether a reversal at Herne Bay would be the way to get stock to Reculver platforms 3/4.

 

On the other hand, if you can provide some link between the two sides it could provide extra interest. Something like this:

 

 

Then your empty stock train would have to run into Platform 2, reverse into the carriage siding and then change direction again to get to platforms 3 and 4

Obviously the platform numbers have switched around, but we did have a Victoria / Canterbury service in the last incarnation.

*Edit - but there was a (contentious) third rail involved! ;-D

21 minutes ago, C126 said:

Just one thought: won't it look a little strange the Freights being propelled such a long way out 'off stage' upon departure?  Ditto, any loco-hauled peak-time service E.C.S.

 

I don't know really, what would be a prototypical distance? 

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

Does this look a bit better?

 

The plan I have (to save costs and space) is to have all the point work "offstage" as it were.

I've done a basic doodle and I think I've come up with the bones of something that will allow me to utilise all my rolling stock, therefore keeping the station served as planned:

Platform 1 (Non-electrified):

A) Freight

Platform 2 (Non-electrified):

B) Hourly DMU "shuttle" service to Dover via Minster. (Could also double as a School Service @ 08:15 and 16:45)

C) 2 Hourly London Victoria via Canterbury (older stock.)

Platform 3 (Third Rail)

D) Regular London Victoria (Ramsgate via Faversham) EMU#1

E) Hourly Charing Cross via Strood slow commuter service (could also double as the fast Cannon St. service.

Platform 4 (Third Rail)

F) Regular Ramsgate (London Victoria via Faversham) EMU#2

Obviously this needs some ironing out, but that's the current draft.

This project is going to be fully automated and more about showcasing my locos - as such I am trying to keep the number of points to an absolute minimum, I would like to get some Tortoise or Cobalt slow action motors ideally - and they're not cheap!

Quoting from a previous post, these were the services that called at the old layout -

"Platform 1 and 2:

Dover Priory via Minster and Deal - all stations stopper, probably hourly.

Victoria via Canterbury, Ashford and Maidstone East - semi fast, four trains daily between 10 am and 4 pm

Schools shuttle to Canterbury West - once daily leaving at 8.15, returning at 4.45

Platform 3 and 4:

Victoria via Chatham and Bromley South - fast train, probably hourly

Charing Cross via Strood and North Kent line - slow train probably hourly

Cannon Street via Chislehurst and Hither Green - fast peak hour service, probably only one or two a day."

I now need to crowbar a similar timetable into a layout something like this:

These are recent pics, the old ones are long gone I'm afraid...

46 minutes ago, C126 said:

Gosh, was it really three years ago we had the discussions about this?!  So sorry for your changing circumstances, but glad to see you are using the opportunity to make something new.  Your example inspired me to type up a couple of Working Time Table pages eventually for my layout (still unfinished).

 

Any chance you could post the missing photos on this thread as a record, if it would not be too emotionally taxing, please?  I always liked your 'split station' layout, and was envious of the idea.

 

 

Hello all, 

As often happens with a house move, I have had to sell my "Dent de Lion" layout due to space restrictions - it was a tough decision, but it is going to a someone who really likes what I had made and is keen to keep it going, and bringing it into 2024 by converting it to DCC!

However, I am keeping all my rolling stock, and I am keen to recreate the spirit of the layout - on a skinny, automated, DC, as a shelf, shuttle setup.

With this clean slate, I would be very interested to hear people's wonderful ideas once more.

Location:

Reculver.

Era: 

Circa 1980.

Infrastructure:

Zanussi depot (as before) plus one or two other low-relief industry buildings situated at the rear of the layout.

One "Island" platform serving two lines, once again - London to Ramsgate via Faversham, Dover to London via Minster.

(Or perhaps not...)

As you can see, this is a stripped down version of it's predecessor with the emphasis being on displaying locos rather than operations - I would love to hear your suggestions!

Attached is a rough sketch of the basic layout.

Thanks for all the responses, really useful! 

I've attached a rough diagram by way of explaining the layout. 

There will be a Kestrel brand island platform at the far end, this will dictate the track spacing between the lower two lines - as will the sidings in the fiddle yard. 

44 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

Depends on your scenery more than the tracks. You could run three straight and parallel tracks in as little as 3 inches....

Cheers, it's the space that the sidings will take up I'm unsure of - without physically having any track pieces it's hard for me to tell.

Quick question re: a small "shuttle" shelf layout currently in the planning stages. 

I just need to find out the minimum width shelf I would need for the attached N gauge setup - I'll probably go with a pair of Peco streamline points, and would keep the tracks correctly spaced in the scenic area (right hand side.)