Grimly Feendish

I have quite a few pics of Twyford if you're interested; what period are you going for?

Mike,

That would be a great help. I'm going for the whole of the 70's, from Warships to HSTs.

From what I've seen from perusing the 'net it seems the station was pretty grimy and run down in the 70's. Like most of the network I suppose.

While I was over last autumn I took a lot of photos of the station. I'd love to know what's changed. As far as I can tell, the buildings look like they haven't had much structural change. The footbridge has been renovated of course, but it seems not to have changed the external outline too much. Although, in some of the 70's pictures I've seen it is hard to tell if the windows were boarded up or are just very dirty! 

I have wondered when the second siding in the bay disappeared, and what it was used for when it was there. 

I also wonder if the signaling layout has changed. From what I can see from photos, it looks to be much the same.

I have many questions, both on Twyford and the WR in the 70's, but as you can see from the pictures it's still early days for the layout. 

Many thanks,

John.

Mark, Castle, Johnster, Dave, Ed, Stationmaster and all,

An unofficial station, and on the main line from London no less! That's remarkable! 

Thanks for all your input. Actually, since my original post things have moved along a bit. Moved along the line - to Twyford (see what I did there    )

Some more thinking made me think that some more operational interest would be good. Twyford offers a junction station and a cross-over, so that's where I alighted.

I've been meaning to start a thread - I guess I should now. So far I have the woodwork done and the fiddle yard laid and wired up. Fiddle yard plan is the same. This is a stay at home layout.

Some pics follow as evidence.

An interesting article. Thanks!

Hi John

 

They were ran for the bashers.

Clive,

Aha! I thought as much! I mean even if it was a weekend (spare locos), in the summer (no train heating) and a slow route, surely there must have been other types more suitable 

Seriously though, thanks to all for their informative replies.I guess a pair of 20's was probably the lowest cost option (I wonder were costs even a big concern for the folks rostering locos in those days?).

John.

Re Class 20s to Skeggy, would the earliest ones have been from Darnall/Tinsley on workings from the Sheffield area?

I have often wondered why 20's were used on these workings, Could any of the kind souls on here enlighten me?

Thanks,

John.

A question for the good folks at Locomotion and Rapido...

When is the N gauge version coming out and where do I sign up for one? 

The APT-E continues it's world tour. It arrived in Chicago yesterday...

There was a high pucker factor when first assembling and despite what the manual said about not using force I had to use what felt like a fair bit of force to make the connections the first time. The second time was much easier and it went together like a charm.

I have to say I love the model and the F16 easter egg it a real treat! Now, if only I had more than 8 feet to run it on!

Hi all,

 

Having placed my pre-order, I received a confirmation email from Dapol with some extra details which have not yet been posted here.

 

The box set of "two extra grey and blue saloon coaches" (£49.99) listed on the pre-order form is actually for two Dapol Mk3 RFM catering vehicles painted in reverse grey/blue to match the prototype HST box set. Andy acknowledged that the window configuration would be incorrect, which is why they are being offered separately. I have decided to pre-order these as well as, although they are a compromise, on my layout, the only person who knows they are incorrect will be me!

 

I also made a suggestion to Dapol that they could consider producing the "full yellow end" version as a box set of just the two power cars, as by the time the power cars were running in this livery they were usually hauling blue/red departmental coaches from the RTC-Derby and vehicles from the prototype HST. Andy said they would look into this idea.

 

Hope this info is of interest.

 

Cheers,

 

Tom

Tom,

does this mean Dapol have made the decision to go ahead with production?

John.

Just a thought but I think it could be better to model either the west or east end of the cutting rather than the middle. If you model the west end, you will keep the bit where the up relief line weaves around the A4 bridge pier (the two bridges on the far left of your photo) so at least there is some variation from four parallel lines. If you model the east end, perhaps you could shorten reality a bit and have the Warren Road bridge (just right of centre in your photo) as the western end. It's the nicest looking of the bridges in Sonning Cutting. Either way, the trains won't be "hidden" in a cutting for the whole layout.

That's an interesting idea. I'll pull it up on Google earth and have a look. I'm also wondering about having the lines closer to the edge of the board and omitting the near side of the cutting. That way the rear of the cutting forms a nice backdrop.

Thanks,

John.

Thanks for the feedback folks.

Kris, I know it doesn't show clearly on the image, but there is enough space for the scissors, at least if the 3rdplanit software is right.

The point of the helicopter view is a good one. I'm thinking a small mock up might help me with this decision. What I like about Sonning Cutting is it's iconic status, the variety of traffic and the wealth of photographs available.

Cheers,

John.
 

Hi All,

I'm playing with the idea of an N Gauge layout of Sonning cutting set in the 1970's. I've been kicking around ideas for a track plan and the drawing below shows where my thinking is at the moment.

This will be a "watching the trains go by" layout. It will be DCC and capable of automation. I've built the storage yard around the idea of using a Nelevtor http://www.nelevation.com/nelevator/.

I've included some conventional storage loops, for putting stock on/off the layout and as insurance in case the Nelevator is late or doesn't work well enough. As you can see, I've used 6 scissors crossovers to allow trains from any line to access the Nelevator and to allow a train to move from a main to a relief line or vice-versa.

The scenic section will start on the left hand side using the A4 road bridge as a view blocker. I am thinking I'll just include the original (East) bridge since as far as I can tell the second bridge was added in the mid-seventies. What the view blocker will be on the right hand (East) side I don't know yet. It may be the signal gantry and a lot of foliage, or perhaps I will move one of the off scene bridges West.

All the points are Peco med. and the minimum radius is 12".

Anyhow, I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the track plan.

Thanks,

John. 

And in my 1970 WR WTT, the timing information appears between the Explanation of References, and Four-Character Train Identification System. I have no E6 timimng load but I do have 7 and G6 timing refernces.

 

Stovepipe,

Thanks for this, it's very interesting.

A question on the E6 timing. I'm assuming that this 'E' is not the same 'E' in the key that talks of Examinations?

Thanks,

John.

PS Love the moniker - once had a pet goldfish called Grimly Feendish

It was either that or Baby Face Finlayson 

Great name for a goldfish BTW!

John.

Hi John

 

Have a 71-72 WTT for Barnt Green to Awre Junction

 

At the beginning of this there are several tables

 

Point to Point Times - Passenger and Express Parcels trains is the first and is opposite the page you have scanned. This allocates locos to a timimg column reference dependant on load. In mine 6 is the lightest and 1 the heaviest - so for Class 47 6 = 365 tons, 2 = 550 tons (nothing rates heavier than 550 tons, seems to be max probably governed by length of train...)

 

These timing column references then relate to point to point timings in subsequent tables, the heavier train the slower of course.

 

Then we have a similar table for Motorail, freighliner, parcels and express freight trains which uses G1 to G6 for the column timing reference - again class 47 G1 = 400 tons to G6 = 1300 tons - followed by relevant point to point timing tables

 

Then finally H timing column references for parcels and freights - H1 to H4 interestingly these don't specify weight limits in my version.

 

So a 47 on 365 tons passenger 1V61 0700 Derby to Cardiff (Timing column reference 6) is allowed 8 mins from Abbotswood to Ashchurch, on a 600 ton parcels (!) 4V07 02.15 Crewe to Bristol 9.5 mins and on 8V53 Bescot to Stoke Gifford a whacking 19 mins!

 

Hope that helps

 

Hi Phil,

It certainly does help. With the information from Flood, Mike and yourself I think I understand things now.

Cheers,

John.

The book you need is the British Rail Western Region Diesel Locomotive Loads, Passenger Motorail Parcels & Milk Trains. BR20896/24

 

 

Flood,

thanks very much, your post makes things a lot clearer. I shall scour the interwebs for that publication!

John,

Dave, Stovepipe and SM, thanks for the info. I've scoured the book but only see the following explanations, which don't seem to include these codes. See pic.

Would there be another document that would explain them?

Thanks,

John.

This is a plea for help from the learned members of this site who always amaze me with their knowledge of the workings of the railway system.

I've got my grubby mitts on a copy of a 1976 WR WTT. Despite scouring the key pages there are some entries that I don't understand. Some pictures will help to explain...

In the Timing Column reference row there are some references I don't understand. These are entries like E6, G6 or just a number such as 4. I've maked some in the images below. Could anyone shed any light on this?

Cheers,

John.

Andy,

very nice.

Any idea where the prototype HST came from?

Thanks,

John.

I nearly spat my Cornflakes out when I read the title of the thread! No disrespect to you John but if you ever get a job on the WR and you value your very existence, don't ask anyone in railway uniform ''here, which one's the slow line then mate?'' unless you're wearing flame retardent undergarments and standing at least half a mile away....

 

A few months after I joined the WR we had another intake of traction trainees at 81A, one of them asked the much respected Shedmaster Norman Porter quite innocently if 'the slow lines go all the way to Didcot'.... now, old uncle Norman was a red faced chap at the best of times (pickled in Bulmers cider during his last years in the job) but his face that day went the colour of a beetroot. The poor wee lad didn't know where to look having been 'put straight' by the rest of us in the mess room...! 

 

Sorry Nige! I didn't mean for you to redecorate your kitchen with half eaten corn flakes. Although the mental image does bring a smile to my face.

I would have loved to work on the WR, sounds like it's just as well I never applied!

John.

If you perform a search of "Sonning Cutting" on Flickr, you get photos such as this https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/6304366384/in/photolist-dyLHJM-4TVLL4-pLRNMP-aB6wu9-pJBzTw-8hpGvz-dvoRN4-pxYhTA-duKTBJ-8JKsiX-7pMmku-qGtQuj-dp1Hhe-j8bAhe-a2nVMS-oWKgTy-oWbiZE-dhe7vu-bCMgSU-b86UL8-eYk5rA-e7yLut-aBUA7w-dRnhJF-p312s6-bRA1FK-dLWLFu-bh58JT-d2Nqu9-aFeVQg-atZQRr-jdv7Yu-9fuT6R-nJ4CYU-cEuLco-adFmHq-7RVsU6-9ZS34x-cEuL9S-fFbk8w-nwrZ1Y-bSQbBV-pjdjeZ-joJfdz-moXJJa-dwZEfz-ffvaqS-pr3BJy-7RVpZR-hAi6ZWand this https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/8208919571/in/photolist-dyLHJM-4TVLL4-pLRNMP-aB6wu9-pJBzTw-8hpGvz-dvoRN4-pxYhTA-duKTBJ-8JKsiX-7pMmku-qGtQuj-dp1Hhe-j8bAhe-a2nVMS-oWKgTy-oWbiZE-dhe7vu-bCMgSU-b86UL8-eYk5rA-e7yLut-aBUA7w-dRnhJF-p312s6-bRA1FK-dLWLFu-bh58JT-d2Nqu9-aFeVQg-atZQRr-jdv7Yu-9fuT6R-nJ4CYU-cEuLco-adFmHq-7RVsU6-9ZS34x-cEuL9S-fFbk8w-nwrZ1Y-bSQbBV-pjdjeZ-joJfdz-moXJJa-dwZEfz-ffvaqS-pr3BJy-7RVpZR-hAi6ZW

 

where it appears that, while all tracks are fb rail, the fast lines are cwr and concrete sleeper with the flat clips (sorry can't remember their name) but the relief lines are still shorter section fb rails with fishplates and 'pandrol' clips on what appear to be wooden sleepers.

 

I would say, look at as many of these photos as possible in order to decide, because there are a variety of angles from this https://www.flickr.com/photos/54a_south_dock/11895703733/in/photolist-dyLHJM-4TVLL4-pLRNMP-aB6wu9-pJBzTw-8hpGvz-dvoRN4-pxYhTA-duKTBJ-8JKsiX-7pMmku-qGtQuj-dp1Hhe-j8bAhe-a2nVMS-oWKgTy-oWbiZE-dhe7vu-bCMgSU-b86UL8-eYk5rA-e7yLut-aBUA7w-dRnhJF-p312s6-bRA1FK-dLWLFu-bh58JT-d2Nqu9-aFeVQg-atZQRr-jdv7Yu-9fuT6R-nJ4CYU-cEuLco-adFmHq-7RVsU6-9ZS34x-cEuL9S-fFbk8w-nwrZ1Y-bSQbBV-pjdjeZ-joJfdz-moXJJa-dwZEfz-ffvaqS-pr3BJy-7RVpZR-hAi6ZWwhich are almost overhead, to this https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/6745438099/in/photolist-bh58JT-d2Nqu9-aFeVQg-atZQRr-jdv7Yu-9fuT6R-nJ4CYU-cEuLco-adFmHq-7RVsU6-9ZS34x-cEuL9S-fFbk8w-nwrZ1Y-bSQbBV-pjdjeZ-joJfdz-moXJJa-dwZEfz-ffvaqS-pr3BJy-7RVpZR-hAi6ZW-pt5jKd-8bW6oi-9dWAWb-7o2CdL-7o2ANd-q1nDW3-9bKu7R-dwb7Vy-dwb835-myaWhT-a6GfWo-9bKuNT-byJSLC-8NJxNr-dBC9sy-eddwEx-dw5yRR-dXVdyx-f8UjZj-dwb7SY-byJSkU-edJ46k-9dWBe9-cffPeb-ccFHgA-8eWDpg-dw5yPM which is more side on.

 

And if that was not enough variation, it would appear that one of the relief lines was chaired bullhead track until about 1975 as seen here https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/6224042027/in/photolist-atZQRr-jdv7Yu-9fuT6R-nJ4CYU-cEuLco-adFmHq-7RVsU6-9ZS34x-cEuL9S-fFbk8w-nwrZ1Y-bSQbBV-pjdjeZ-joJfdz-moXJJa-dwZEfz-ffvaqS-pr3BJy-7RVpZR-hAi6ZW-pt5jKd-8bW6oi-9dWAWb-7o2CdL-7o2ANd-q1nDW3-9bKu7R-dwb7Vy-dwb835-myaWhT-a6GfWo-9bKuNT-byJSLC-8NJxNr-dBC9sy-eddwEx-dw5yRR-dXVdyx-f8UjZj-dwb7SY-byJSkU-edJ46k-9dWBe9-cffPeb-ccFHgA-8eWDpg-dw5yPM-dw89ot-bMDwLc-8eWEra

I'm sitting at O'Hare waiting to see if my flight is cancelled or just hours late, so my bandwidth is limited right now and I can't see those pics.

I've spent some time on flickr and am seeing (or think I see) different things at different times, just like your self. It's all a little confusing for a bear of little brain such as myself.

Thanks for taking the time to find these. 

John.

 

In the case of the GWML the 4 tracks between London and Reading (including Soning cutting) are paired by speed. One pair are the up & down slow lines (officially known as the relief lines), the other pair are the up and down main lines. I believe the relief lines are on the Northern side of the formation from London to Didcot (the limit of continuous quadruple track).

 

As to the types of sleepers, that will have to wait for one of our Western region experts to answer specifically, but by the mid 70s the use of concrete sleepers on our main lines was very much the norm. Thus a busy line like the GWML is quite likely to feature them - including the relief lines.

That's perfect, just what I needed to know.

Thanks,

John.

Wow! Thanks every one for such an interesting response. It's amazing that what I thought was a fairly straight forward question can bring forward such a font of knowledge. That's one of the things I love about this hobby, there is usually a lot more to things than meet the eye if one cares to look. It's great that fellow enthusiasts are so generous in taking the time to educate others.

If this project ever becomes more that a figment of my imagination I'll be sure to post on here.

Thanks again,

John.

Hi All,

I'm thinking about what would be involved in a "Watch the trains go by" type layout of Sonning cutting.

Whilst pondering a track plan it occurred to me that I am not 100% certain of the arrangement of the running lines. I'm assuming the fast lines would be in the center and the relief lines on the outside. Can anyone tell me if this is correct?

The time frame is in the mid-late '70s. 

Looking at pictures it seems that in my chosen era the fast lines were concrete sleepers. On the photos I've found it's hard to tell if the relief lines are wooden or concrete. Can anyone shed any light on this too?

Thanks,

John.

 

Does anyone have experience of the use of tweezer handpieces for resistance soldering. There's an example shown at

 

https://www.americanbeautytools.com/Resistance-Soldering/125

 

This seems to be the cheapest and designed for model work, they make much smaller finer ones that are much more expensive. And chunky one if you want to really heat up something.

 

Oli

 

Hi Oli,

I have an American Beauty RSU with 'conventional' bit and the tweezers. Both have their uses for sure.

I found the tweezers useful in assembling a brass kit (P4) where the ability to hold two parts together with the tweezers and then apply heat was really useful.

I'd say they are a great addition but don't replace the need for the more conventional pencil type bit.

Hope this helps,

John.

 

 

Looks like I wasn't alone, and the "Inter City" bag was also popular in the West Country.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/auchlander/5978032539/in/photostream/

I had forgotten about that bag! I had one bought, I think, from Wolverhampton. I was very proud of it and took it on all my spotting trips.

It was never quite the same after some overlooked piece of fruit (a pear if memory serves), got squashed whilst on an excursion. I think I had to buy a new notebook. I was very happy when the new Combined Volume came out because the pages of the old one had been impregnated with squashed pear.

Anyone else have any disasters whilst out and about?

John.