Rosie Taylor

Thanks. I'll be using Peter's Spares own brand 14mm disc wheels; I've used their wheels before and like them a lot. I model 00 gauge but use SMP track and handmade points, I find their wheels work quite well together

Thanks, me too!

I think you're right. The varnish will hopefully fill the larger grain, but yes I should have dealt with that first

Greatful to those leaving positive reactions, glad this is of interest! I experimented with various wood-stains to try and get the wood closer to a "teak" look. I used to be a professional woodworker so have a lot of wood-stain sample pots, as well as what I thought was a decent knowledge of various wood-types. Apparently not. I know what the wood used isn't, but not what it is. No matter, my trial patches on the underneath showed that a Teak wood-stain looked best. Who would have thought... (The different shades show with/without varnish applied on top of the stain) To achieve the slight different shades/colours on different "panels" on the coach sides, I scribed out where these would be, the scribelines also leaving a guide for the beading (to be added later). I then applied many different layers of various stains, on top of a general coat of Teak stain. The effect is subtle but builds nicely (I think), quite like weathering. A lot of trial and error, but as it's so subtle it's difficult to mess it up. I've already started adding the beading, and it really helps bring it all together (promise)!

The design of the kit is interesting in it's simplicity, and how the kitmakers worked around using what materials were available at the time. I've seen that later kits had cast whitemetal ends

The first thing I did was set about fixing the bowed and broken window frames/top sides. I held the parts roughly in place using temporary plasticard bracing and used liberal amounts of superglue to reattach the wood - my thinking is this would soak into the grain and create a strong bond, as well as bonding the wood fibres solid to allow more precise filing and shaping. I wasn't too worried about the glue staining the wood as this would be sanded back and stained anyway. Once dry, I used needle files to tidy up the window cutouts, removing loose wood fibres and sharpening the corners. The difference is subtle but I think it's had a big effect, especially when looking at the coach as a whole. The windows on the right of the tape have been dressed with a file, the ones on the left I still had to do. If you squint you can just about make out the wood fibres still to remove. The improvement is a little more noticeable after sanding and varnishing, but I'll get to that.

I've covered the history of these particular models in another post, but I'll summarise; I inherited these coaches from an older relative when he passed away some 20 years ago. They were part-built wooden kits, I initially assumed scratchbuilt but with the help of some on this forum have identified them as CCW kits, circa 1954: I found it hard to believe anyone ever made kits from wood! I was too young and inexperienced to do anything with them for a long time, and so they gathered dust in the attic until recently. Now I have the skills, knowledge and motivation to make them into something resembling a finished coach... I've accepted they won't ever be a scale replica of the prototype; the wood used for the body has over-scale grain, the body-sides are too thick (and so the glazing is too "inset"), the brake coach is missing the prototypical stepped sides (the guards compartment is slightly narrower than the passenger compartments), the roof has a join with each end that is hard to hide, etc, etc. However, I'm keen to make a good go of it as a tribute to the deceased relative, and as a fun project. Although I was young when I knew him, he was always nice to me and encouraged and shared my interest in railways. I'm not sure why he never finished the kits, but I'd like to think he would approve of the project! So what do we have to start with? Well, I've chosen the two coaches in the best condition, although they're not in the best shape... An LNER Gresley 3-Compartment Corridor Brake Third And a Gresley Vestibule Third. As you can see, the window framing on one side has bowed and come away from the base. This plus roofs for the two coaches was all I have to start with, although at time of writing I've already acquired a lot of whitemetal and brass etched goodies to finish (some of a similar vintage as the coaches!)

Interesting, I hadnt considered the weather contributing. I remember reading once that check rails were lubricated but had forgotten that was a thing. I noticed another train going through the station (Class 158 DMU) without as much noise, but that was at the other platform. I'll listen out when I'm back at the station later, to hear the difference between the Class 221 and others as well...

I caught the train from Dundee this morning, a Class 221 Voyager (5 carriages, Aberdeen - Plymouth), and the squealing as it came into the station was almost literally deafening. Dundee has tight curves at the east end of the platforms at the mouth of the dock street tunnel, necessitating a check rail, and flange squeal is fairly common. This was something else though, I've never heard it this loud (many passengers, including myself, covering their ears)! Does anyone know if this is a problem unique to the train type? Im wondering if the Class 221 has a longer wheelbase than usual, larger wheel diameter or something to do with the tilting mechanism?

My thoughts exactly. I might finish one coach in using "traditional" methods, one using modern items such as 3d printing. Both approaches have an appeal. The coaches are all wildly out of period for my layout, but it would be a fun project

Thanks, any photos are very useful, even to see other kits of similar construction. I find something really appealing about a kit made from wood, not sure why!

Ah I think we might have a winner? It's the closest I've seen, window layout and shape/size seem to match. But as Wickham Green points out it does seem like an approximation. Of course, the way the coaches are constructed it's not impossible to modify them, or I might use the Diagram 503 coach as "inspiration" only.

I've had a look on auction websites and have found a few examples of the correct bogies for reasonable prices, I think that's the route to go down. I usually attempt to model in finescale (whether or not I achieve it...) so this really appeals as "something different"; deliberately using vintage parts when better modern alternatives are available.

To add some detail, I measured the compartments and they are exactly scale 7ft (I measured between centrelines of the doors). I'm more and more convinced this is what's listed in the CCW 1954 catalogue as "6-wheel 31ft passenger brake" under the "LMS Old Time Coach Kits" section (Midland). The catalogue shows a photo of an assembled 3rd Coach, and the shape looks correct for mine (although window arrangment is obviously different). Problem is, I can't find any photos of a 31ft Midland Clerestory passenger brake - all the photos I can find with a websearch show "normal" roofs. Does anyone know if this existed, or if CCW were using their imaginations?

I'll take some measurements this evening, if that helps at all. There is also the possibility it was assembled incorrectly or wasn't even based on a specific prototype! One benefit from this mystery is it's got me a lot more interested in pre-grouping stock; whichever 6-wheel coaches I look at, they're all beautiful.

Not sure how realistic this is, but it would be nice to find appropriate parts from the same period to finish the coaches. I'll start keeping an eye out online and at shows for second hand stuff, although I assume after so long they'll be rare.

That does sound good, always useful to collect more drawings. I doubt this project is the last time I'd find such a book useful.

Hmm, good point!

I'm assuming (for now) that the clerestory coach is a Midland Railway 6 wheel type. As Jason points out the ends aren't quite right, and I can't find a window/door layout that matches, BUT... Ratio/CCW have 31' Midland Clerestory coaches listed in their catalogue, which matches the length and would make sense. I'll keep looking, thank you everyone for the input!

Some more views of the clerestory (dont seem to be able to rotate the image?!)

It does seem very likely these are either old CCW or Ratio wooden kits - now I know what to search for I've found a fair bit of info (including elsewhere on this forum!). I feel a little embarassed I assumed they were scratchbuilt, I wouldn't have guessed kits were ever made from actual wood! I'll likely finish them to some degree, as a curiosity, as they're still a nice reminder of the original owner. Can't work out what that short clerestory coach is though...

Hmm, interesting. I'll follow that rabbit hole and see what I can find!

Ah, brilliant! Thanks, I hadn't considered looking at LMS stock, now I see pictures of the 'Stove R' it seems obvious. The build of the models is very nice and quite intricate. The shells are made from fairly thin (and fragile) veneer, I'll need to do some repairs before further work. I don't expect them to be comparable to RTR stock or kits, but will be nice to finish them with a passing resemblance to the prototype.

I inherited these coach bodies many years ago when an older family member (Dad's cousin) passed away. The rest of his collection was sold but these came to me as I think nobody knew what to do with them! I was far too young and inexperienced to finish them, so they gathered dust as a curiosity for the past 20+ years. Now I'm older and fairly competent at scratchbuilding and modifying stock, I'd like to see if I can do anything with them. They'll never be finescale models due to the material, but the craftmanship is excellent and I'd like to honour his memory by finishing them in some fashion - I have fond memories of him humouring me as a young boy and showing me his massive railway collection! First step though is identifying the prototype... I'm fairly certain this is an LNER Gresley 61'6" 3-Compartment Corridor Brake Third. The window layout and length are spot on And I think this is a Gresley Vestibule Third? Window layout seems correct but it's slightly too short (by about a scale foot) Gresley Open Third? Length is accurate but window layout is slightly off I think (missing small window on one side) These two are a complete mystery to me - both are about scale 30-32ft long, one has a clerestory roof. If they are based on LNER Gresley coaches, I think I need a good book on the subject. I mainly model 1980's BR Blue, so am out of my depth here. I have Keith Parkin's excellent book on Mk1s, so I'm looking for something similar for these coaches (history, detail differences, dimensions, drawings etc). A Google search suggests "Historic carriage drawings..." by Nick Campling, can anyone recommend? Finally, can anyone shed light on the construction? I'm wondering if the bodies are based on a kit, of if there was ever a popular article etc that he used as inspiration. From what I remember of the man, it does seem like him to just decide to make these out of wood because he could - he was very talented and inventive. Thanks in advance for any help!

I can add that I've just received my order from him - I contacted him by email regarding some TPO parts and printed sides (basically to get them before they dissapear) and he was very helpful. It did take almost 2 weeks for the first reply, but understandable as the business is in the process of winding down and they are very busy.