35A

On 17/04/2020 at 10:13, great northern said:

Absolutely Derek. The size of New England yards plus MPD on one side, and the Midland and the M&GN on the other  was immense.

As demonstrated in the attached image, which I'm guessing might date from around 1963/64.

As an aside, if anyone can help me date this image, I'd be most appreciative. Noticeably, the M&GN track has been lifted, the bridge spans over the main line have been dismantled and Rhubarb Bridge, where the M&GN crossed over Lincoln Road (a low bridge which precluded the use of double decker buses on services to the north end of the city) has been removed. I remember, as a very small boy, the old Rhubarb Bridge (the name is now used for the Soke Parkway/Paston Parkway/Lincoln Road/Bourges Boulevard road junction complex) being dismantled, with the embankment and abutments remaining until about 1970/71, when work to build the new route of the A47 along part of the trackbed commenced.

The M&GN closed in 1959 and New England was closed to steam in January 1965. Apart from a couple of 0-6-0 diesel shunters, everything else visible is steam. Allowing a couple of years for M&GN track recovery, bridge removal etc. this would suggest a date of (roughly) 1961 to 1964. Given that I remember Rhubarb Bridge being dismantled (I was born in 1958) I tend to think that 1961 might be a little too early for those memories.

I'm sure that there may be a few here who are slightly older than me (or who may have seen the image before), any further pointers gratefully received!

I continue to find this thread utterly fascinating - your modelling skills are an inspiration, Gilbert, and its always a delight to drop by and see what you've been up to. 

C16729 - is that trailing 86 not showing tail lights or is it just the angle of the photograph? It certainly looks as though they are not on.

9 hours ago, Waverley47708 said:

 

Thanks for that, was aware of the Scottish / English Regiment and Racehorse name difference but was unaware of the different style of nameplate or thought about the shortness of the racehorse nameplate.

The racehorses and the Scottish regiment plates were cast in aluminium, whilst the English regiment plates were cast in brass. I believe that the font used was Clarendon Bold, using a smaller font size for the English regiments. The plates were all cast at Glasgow Works, IIRC. Unusually, for the Deltics, the detail of this area of the locos is not very well documented anywhere.

Courtesy of RailGenArchive, some positive IDs for the trailing class 20s in today's collection:

J6140 - 20 188 was paired with 20 048 throughout the month of June 1978

C4097 - 20 136 was paired with 20 041 for its "Jolly Fisherman" appearances in August 1978

Interesting that in C4097, the trailing loco (20 041) appears to be applying power but there is no exhaust from the front loco. As they would normally be working in multiple, I wonder if 20 136 was sickly on that day?

Interesting to see the appearance of the first electrification masts in J8914, one on the up side and a couple on the down side. Also to consider that that was May 1987 and electric services to Leeds and then York followed within the next couple of years - rather a contrast with the recent Great Western Main Line electrification.

J7111 - FYI, NCB nos. 4 and 8 were formerly D9514 and D9517 (cut up in December 1985 and January 1984) respectively.

6 hours ago, Market65 said:

Hi, Dave. I like the Bottesford photo’s which are all full of interest. I’ve been doing some research into the unit in J7989, with a two car class 105 on a Grantham to Nottingham service, in July, 1983. The unit was originally DMBS Sc51483, and DTCL, Sc56472. The trailer was renumbered on an unknown date in 1983 to E54472 - you can make out the number on enlarging the photo’. It was originally allocated to 61A, Kittybrewster in April, 1959, and, certainly, the trailer was moved to Lincoln in May, 1975. The power car was scrapped in May, 1982, so I’m not sure which DMBS the trailer was working with with by 1983. Hugh Longworth’s book does not say.

 

With warmest regards,

 

 Rob.

FYI, Rob, from my own notes:

DTCL 56472 was paired with DMBS 51280, Lincoln-based, sighted at Leeds City on 22 Dec 1980; on 24 Oct 1982 it was seen at Sheffield Midland, by then paired with 51278, still based at Lincoln.

By September 1983 it had become 54472 and transferred to Norwich, where it was paired with 51276. Dave's photograph was taken in the previous July, so it's quite likely that this was the pairing transferred from Lincoln. I noted the pair at Peterborough on 6 Sep 1983 and 11 Feb 1985.

It latterly returned to Lincoln, still with 51276, and was noted thus, at York, on 26 Apr 1986. Following withdrawal, it was noted in East Holmes Yard, with other class members, on 7 Mar 1987, awaiting disposal.

The original DMBS, 51483, appears to have stayed in Scotland to the end, formed as part of various Haymarket three-car sets.

2 hours ago, Davexoc said:

 

Tried to like your post and got a 'timeout error' again. Site seems slow again and was the other day too....

IME the site has been chronically slow, since the refresh. I've got a faster fibre connection and no other website takes as long to populate as RMweb does! When I click on my Favourites Bar icon it takes 10 seconds plus for anything to happen.

J7740 - the second Class 20 would have been 20 016, on the final 1E86 Leicester - Skegness of the 1982 season, on 18th September (according to the RailGen Archive).

J6519 - not "NIMBUS", I'm afraid. By June 1979 55 020 had long been languishing at Doncaster Works and went under the torch with a 'domino' headcode, rather than plated over.

24 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

C9275, is that the now-disappeared supermarket chain Gateway on the right?

It certainly is. It became a Somerfield and was one of those disposed of when the Co-op bought out Somerfield, IIRC. These days it's an ASDA (there's also a Lidl, right next door to it).

3 hours ago, Davexoc said:

Then again, back in the day, GD locos weren't the best kept.....

I may have recounted this a long time ago, upthread, but I was a told a tale in the early 70s by the foreman at March depot. He had a filthy Gateshead English Electric Type 4 (class 40) on shed one day, in a real state. They put it through the washer several times, to spruce it up, before sending it on its way. A couple of days later, he received a phone call from his opposite number at Gateshead in which, amidst a tirade of abuse, the latter pointed out that they maintained their locomotives immaculately internally and that the important thing was that they worked, not what they looked like, and would he mind leaving their charges alone in future!

4 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

It might be but I don't think I have any photos of dmus with a van on the back on the Nottingham - Grantham - Skegness line - though it could have happened.

 

Perhaps they only ran like that after dark?

 

Does anyone know for ceratin?

 

Certainly, at the turn of the 1970s, tail loads were still a regular occurrence on the cross-country services between the Midlands and East Anglia (the Swindon Cross-Country units regularly ran on the Birmingham - Norwich/Cambridge axis with vans). I don't recall ever seeing any on the Nottingham - Skegness route, behind 114s, and no journey between Grantham and Nottingham that I took (fairly regularly at that time) ever conveyed one, BICBW. Even on the former route, though, tail loads had long since ceased by 1979 (in any case, class 31s and LHCS had taken over- but they had gone from the DMUs before that happened). Again ICBW but I think that there was a BR policy decision, fairly early in the 1970s, not to perpetuate the practice of hauling vans behind DMUs. I'm sure that I read it somewhere - but, of course, trying to find the relevant article might take some time! 

J7737 - 20 147 made numerous appearances on the various "Jolly Fisherman" trains (and unadvertised reliefs) during August 1982, always paired with 20 113.

J7985 - 45 135 was recorded on Saturday 2nd July 1983 working 1E85 (09:22 Derby - Skegness) and 1M35 (13:00 Skegness - Derby). All other entries for 45 135 that month show it on Midland Main Line or Cross Country services.

On ‎02‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 21:53, great northern said:

Good news for those who have been asking for vidoe coverage of PN. I had a very welcome visit from Andy Y today, and he brought with him some very interesting things for recording purposes.  The result was that a couple of trains ran, without falling off, and that when Andy has some spare time, we will see some views of PN that we haven't experienced before.

 

Tonight though you get the usual static images, which not surprisingly feature the Elizabethan again.

 

 

 

I shall pretend that I am one of those lads on the end of the platform (although your layout predates me, slightly!). Many is the hour that I spent on the north end of platform 3, on a parcels barrow or BRUTE.  

On ‎21‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 15:16, great northern said:

One of the main reasons for choosing 1958 was that the main line parlys and the M&GN were still running. I've seen bay 4 referred to as the "Boston Bay", and I have lots of evidence for E. Lincs trains starting from there.

Very true. Even into the DMU era, the Grimsby/Skegness trains used to start from 4. Platform 5, on the other hand, was pretty much disused by the late 60s, apart from for recessing failed locos or replacement locos awaiting the arrival of a semi-failure on a down train - plus the 20:02 Crewe Royal Mail train (a TPO and a BG). 4 became generally disused from the closure of the Spalding line at the beginning of the 70s, apart from the odd Leicester/Birmingham train that started from Peterborough.

For example, until around 1972, there was a loco and stock working from Leicester at teatime, usually around 4 coaches, hauled by a pair of Class 25 Sulzer locos. After arriving in platform 2 it would head into Nene Sidings, where one class 25 would detach and head for platform 5, to take out the Crewe mail. The second class 25 would run round, take the down avoiding line to just north of Spital Bridge, before propelling back into platform 4, where it would form the 20:20 departure back to Leicester (I was lucky enough to get a cab ride throughout on this move, a couple of times). In, IIRC, May 1972 the passenger service was turned over to a DMU and the locomotive for the Crewe mail became a Finsbury Park Brush 2 (Class 31), straight off the first of the three loco-hauled King's Cross to Peterborough commuter trains. 

4 hours ago, ba14eagle said:

I think its highly unlikely this is a XC train, as the coach is a mk3, which (other than sleeping cars) only ever appeared in the West Country on trains from the North West & Midlands on Summer Saturdays, when WCML sets were pressed into service. I don't ever recall seeing a West Country to Scotland train formed of Mk3. 

Mark IIIs did (occasionally) wander off route, though. Here's a shot of 47 854 at Banbury in 2001, on a Manchester to Paddington train (IIRC), on a weekday, with a Mark III FO behind the loco. The rest of the train was standard Mark IIe/IIf stock. The fact that there was a Mark III in the formation is the reason that I photographed it.

14 hours ago, great northern said:

Another view of our phantom scottish A3. I really like these views of Pacifics going south from Platform 6, but I suspect that in reality it happened very rarely.

 

 

 

In my time I don't recall ever seeing anything head south from platform 6 on a main line train. Certainly trains towards/from March used to use platform 6 in both directions. Anything on the main line used to use the up avoiding line (the centre road), not infrequently. In contrast, I can only remember seeing anything other than goods traffic use the down avoider (nearest the camera) on one occasion.

1 hour ago, keefer said:

J5045 is a cracking pic of the 47 hard at work - especially since it looks like you were struggling with the (lack of) light!

Wondering if the headcode has been wound incorrectly (or slipped round), as according to http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/wtt75-76.htm :

There's 1E05 (10.00 Edin-KX, The Flying Scotsman) or 1E07 (10.30 Edin-KX) but no 1E06.

Presumably this train was at Grantham in the early afternoon, with the winter light already fading.

Beat me to it. I was just going to flag that up. 1E05 was a Deltic turn. 1E07 was normally a class 47 turn, although on odd occasions I saw it with an ETS class 31 on the front! I don't recall there ever being a 1E06 in the 1970s (certainly not one that ran south of Doncaster) and a quick scan of my Excel spreadsheet for the period reveals no sightings of anything running as 1E06, BICBW.

An easy one to identify this time, it being the start of the season:  J7647 would be 20 173 & 20 187 on 31st May 1982, according to RailGen Archive - the pair actually worked an unidentified additional from Nottingham to Skeg and back.

6 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

C14438, the Cornish Skipper Pacer, has a non-standard 4th digit, 142525. Presumably 142025, as that was part of the batch 142015-027 which Wikipedia says was painted in those colours. They've all reverted to 1420xx numbers now.

IIRC, it was all to do with the changes of transmission and engines, which was occurring around 1990. Some were also renumbered into the 142 2xx series before reverting to their original numbers, within a couple of years. I can't remember the exact details as to which were renumbered into which series (and why) but I'm sure that someone, with more interest in Pacers than I, can add further information.

Just a note, re: J2838.

D1628 was the unfortunate loco that ended up on its side at New England North Junction in 1974, whilst (as 47 046) attempting to take the turnout from the ECML down fast to the Stamford lines at speed. Later to go on and be reengined as the test bed loco for both the Class 56 (as 47 601) and the Class 58 (as 47 901).

On ‎08‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 22:20, great northern said:

Just to finish off the benefits of the work that has been done, the blinds can extend right down to track level if I wish to do that. Obviously, I won't, but I can take them far enough that the shadows caused by the overhang of the bookcases isn't a problem any more. The removal of the one on the window wall has not only helped tremendously with access, its absence has allowed far more light to get down that end. Of course I'm now thinking about what I could do beyond Spital Bridge as has been done at the Crescent Bridge end. We shall see.

 

I have far more still life photos than locomotive ones at present, so tonight we'll have two of them, the common theme being railings, and views through them.

 

I still have to do a double take at these, to be sure that I'm looking at your layout and not at the station approach as I remember it as a kid! I half expect to see myself, with my mate, whizzing past on our pushbikes, going to or from the station on a spotting session. Beautiful!

2 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

Newcastle upon Tyne in 1989 today.  This was the time when the two new through platforms were being added.

Crikey! Was it that long ago? If someone had asked me I would have said little more than 20 years ago. Then again, they were there when we were "diverted" on one of the 'Deltic' Birmingham New Street to Ramsgate services - so that would have been 1998/1999. It's horrifying how fast time flies past as you get older. 

I know exactly what you mean, David, about not revisiting places. I have never revisited any of the properties that I have owned - and only viewed my old childhood home when visiting erstwhile neighbours of my parents.

Recently I retraced a journey that we used to make several times a year, to the coast. Not living in the area any more, it was fascinating to see how the road network has changed (at times I had only the faintest idea of where I was, with all the bypasses etc.). A number of the places that we used to look out for, as children, were still there but much had changed on the journey. Likewise, many of our old railway haunts.

Like you, I spent many happy Saturday or Sunday afternoons on that stretch of the ECML, although usually further south at Little Bytham, Greatford or Tallington (as per my avatar, which was one of my father's photographs, although I would have been with him). I've observed them from the railway many times in recent years but I don't recall having been to any of those locations by road since the early 1980s. That's why your (and your dad's) photographs bring so much pleasure.

Anyway, congratulations on clocking up another decade. You are marginally my senior and so I doff my (metaphorical) cap to you and send you my best wishes. Take care of that shoulder!