Wickham Green

Dunsignalling :     "....... with the main lines running BR late steam/third rail (much of the infrastructure remained unchanged until steam vanished) with the branch being a heritage site in its fairly early stages and a pre-ban base for main line railtour locos."  -  sounds like it might have a connection to the main line at Haywards Heath !!?!

Anglian :               "For example, if I build a Southern layout set in the early 1920's at a push I can still have some pre-grouping stock awaiting repaint,"  -  or early/mid thirties - it took AGES for pre-grouping liveries to disappear completely - though they normally got post-grouping insignia on the old colour in the meantime : depends on the status of the loco/vehicle in question, of course.

on the subject of variations there are the ex Juguslav ones built as late as 1960, 2 of which are being preserved in UK.  . The wording in an article suggested these two were being fitted with new cabs, a pity in my mind as the other 3 genuine USA tanks are all ex Southern Railway and none are in near original condition.

Don't forget that the ex Jugoslav locos are post-war built and not ex U.S.A.T.C. - so undoubtedly exhibited differences anyway ......... I can't comment on their original appearnce without sources in front of me but I seem to recall that a number of the USA tank 'near copies' around the world were actually built with enclosed cabs which might have been inspired by the Southern's conversions.

Can anyone comment on what haulage capacity is like - I'm wondering whether one could fill a role on my 'up north' themed layout as a highly unlikely station pilot!

Didn't one of the Southern ones actually make a tentative forray north of the Thames at one time !!?!

YEP ! ........... and no : it was TWO that escaped - briefly. Bradley states "In Early September 1955 Nos. 30061/6 were loaned to the London Midland Region, the former .... at Kentish Town .... whjile No. 30066 travelled to Bank Hall, Liverpool. .... both were back at Southampton by the end of October 1955." ............. a brief time-slot, maybe, but Bank Hall's most definitely 'up north' ( in most peoples' books anyway ) !

As for haulage ? : should be prodigious if the chassis's made of depleted uranium for weight !

That said american steam locos only seemed to have 3 colours... Silver, Black and white for the letters :-)

I wonder what inspired the lads in Yorkshire to paint 72 brown ?

It always amazes me how people find such items laying around decades after they were thought to be long ceased.

You obviously never went carriage body hunting in north east Scotland .......................

....... the H2 project at the Bluebell started at the same time (say 1990) as I remember the boiler laying around back then even if it was officially announced back in 2000.

Weren't there a couple of other ( ex-L.N.E.R.) boilers found at the same time / place ? .................... they don't seem to feature in other 'new build' projects : were they just too far gone ??!?

Can anyone comment on what haulage capacity is like - I'm wondering whether one could fill a role on my 'up north' themed layout as a highly unlikely station pilot!

Didn't one of the Southern ones actually make a tentative forray north of the Thames at one time !!?!

It was actually the age of the "Marathon" back then, unless you happened to buy yours on the continent.

I did notice there was probably a chronological inconsistency in what I said - but who'd buy a chocolate bar called "Snickers" - whatever that means - instead of "Marathon" with its implication of prowess and endurance ? ......... I never have !

To have anything approaching adult memory of 1923 (let alone pre-1923) you have to be well over 100 years old.

 

......

 

Am I the only one who finds the majority of pre-group liveries rather "Chocolate Box".

 

John

Probably not QUITE that old as pre-grouping liveries - albeit often with post-grouping insignia - lasted well into the 'thirties ....... the lower the 'caste' of the item, the longer, of course.

Anyway trains, like chocolate boxes, were decorated to appeal to the taste of their day ............... though I certainly don't fancy the chocolate advertised by many of today's 'Train Operators' .................. not to mention a certain episode when everything was wrapped in matt blue wirth a white zig-zag : "This is the Age of the Snickers" ....... UGH !

I think the dynamics of pre grouping rtr are interesting. Clearly it is before just about anyone's living memory. So what's the interest and how is it fuelled? Certainly models of preserved locos seen in operation drive sales but that then drives the modeller to think "I want my c class in an authentic setting. What should go alongside it?" That creates an interest in other pre grouping types. Certainly the gorgeous colour palate used helps!

There will 'always' be a market for B.R. Mk1s, say, because their geographical coverage was universal - but the further you go back in time the smaller your potential audience becomes simply beacuse the Companies become smaller ............. it'll be interesting to see how popular the forthcoming 'birdcage' coaches are in S.E.C.R. 'Dark Lake' ( it might depend on how 'gorgeous' Bachmann's rendition of that colour is ) : I feel malachite green might have sold better ( wider geographical covereage - but did all such coaches carry it ? )  -  but maybe that's for the future ?

How did the Non Corridor Lavatory system work?  Next door compartments could be connected - as is implied earlier in this blog - but if you were further down the coach, presumably you had to get out at a station to bag your seat in the loo?

Prexactly .......... but Network Rail aren't going to tolerate anything like that for much longer so it ll be irrelevant and locked out of use !

The Pennsylvania RR had maroon and gold and I'm sure I've seen an American steam passenger locomotive in green and yellow.

I'm sure I've seen an AUSSIE steam passenger locomotive in green and yellow - so your memory might be thinking along the same lines !!?!.

American S100s had cowcatchers and buckeyes.

Not Buffers

 

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/11424

 

That said american steam locos only seemed to have 3 colours... Silver, Black and white for the letters :-)

That should probably be "colors" ? ................... allegedly something to do with Henry Ford  .................. ! ..................................

A lot more research was done after the project was launched. The switch from Dapol to Bachmann then led to more research as Bachmann did not (at that time) use scans of steam locomotives. As a result of this additional research various changes were made in respect of which locomotives were covered by the detail variations available to us. I'm not sure, now, what all those changes were, but I know we changed the identity of the USATC example in order to represent one which had actually operated in the UK. Many of these locomotives were shipped to Europe without ever being steamed in the UK, merely stored here until required. I had a number of postcard prints of USATC-liveried locomotives (which went into the research file) and from memory no two of them carried the same wording or the same font and some were clearly black, others grey or khaki. When working from a B&W photo it's safer to go for one that's definitely black rather than one which MIGHT be grey or could be some other colour. (CJL)

....... for those of you watching in black and white ......................................

Uless I've missed something in the acres of 'reply quoting' above I don't think anyone's mentioned the Third Way ! ....... a ready-to-run model of every loco ( coach or wagon ) variant would be nice and most of us would find that preferable to building a kit ( of chosen variety ) - but what's happened to the aftermarket ?   How many of us put an Alan Gibson later-style cab on a Mainline pannier tank body when there was no option - surely with resin casting or 3D printing some back-street ( shed ? ) manufacturer could turn out the necessary conversion kit to back-date the atlantic or E4 etc. !!?!  ( Or, perhaps, a mainstream kit manufacturer who's established 'full' kit for that loco has suddenly lost the bulk of its potential market ! )

Not available in Southern Railway malachite green.

..... YET  -  he says with fingers crossed !

The Dapol B4 has entered the Mystic Oriental Sanctuary of the believers in Eastern relative time structure in Chinese Factories, compounded by the Chinese Year being different to the West.....We know not what mysterious ceremonies and services are held over the CAD drawings, or it's rite of passage through to a 3d printed example, fabled for being prized by Model Magazine editors as evidence of the passage through the initiation rites, then to be taken to the Peoples Palace of Production (approved by the Chinese Communist Party Officials) to be completed, crated up and sold to the gullible west........

It's gona' to be a long time yet.........

Stephen

Maybe it's being held to ransom until Hinkley Point gets the go-ahead ? ....... it's not only Chinese politicians can procrastinate !

Our research indicated that they were black in USATC condition. These were, after all, American-owned and operated locomotives, so any spec would have come from the US, not Britain. (CJL)

Apart from the spec that said they need to be to European loading gauge and have European style coupling / buffing gear ............ er - and they normally paint the latter red on that side of the 'pond'.

They wouldn't have known what a buffer beam was! It's a front pilot and would automatically be painted black - or left as bare timber if that was how it started. (CJL)

They might not have known what a buffer beam was but one seems to have miraculously appeared on each end of the loco ............. complete with buffers - which would definitely have been foreign to them until someone sent them a spec. ( Probably sent them a fax and the colour sample came out black ....................... yes, I've seen it done ! )

For the younger members of our audience, I'd better explain that 'fax' is short for Facsimile Transmission and is what we old timers used to send eachother before e-mails were invented .......... a step up from Telex, really !

As of 8/8/2016 Bachmann via Hattons say delivery in May 2017......just two years late then!! I think the Chinese must use a very different calendar to us, very stretchy, elastic in nature.

No prize for a member leaping forward and saying we should be grateful for it coming...........There are promises, promises from politicians and delivery dates from model railway makers, both suspect!

 

Stephen

Chinese time is, indeed, elastic - but only when it suits them ........ Chinese delivery schedule for a Brighton Atlantic is one thing - but it's a totally different matter when someone suggests delaying their little project at Hinkley Point ! [ If you see no further posts from me the Triads have found my hidedout ! ]

Just a thought ........... did nobody tell the Americans that buffer beams are supposed to be painted ( bufferbeam ) red ??!?

With the huge spate of southern items recently:

(June - Hornby class 71)

July - Hornby Adams radials

August - Hornby LSWR coaches

September - Bachmann/Modelrail USA tanks

October - SECR Terrier and Oxford EKR radial (that will probably be just me)

November - DJM class 71 (I have one paid for and the other Hattons one pending)

 

I am sure every ones credit cards could do with a rest.

 

Mind you 2017  could see:

SECR birdcages

H2 Atlantic

Original Merchant Navy

4-TC

 

A hefty program for sure.

Not to mention two varieties of cattle wagons from Hornby, an L.S.W.R. brake van from D.J.Models and a B4 tank from Dapol .............. though the latter two have gone rather quiet of late !

Quick question for those that know these things, would the loose coaches (ie the 9 compartment Third) be coupled to either end of the set or sit between the two brakes?

As loose stock they'd generally have been 'outside' the set - but a number of the Thirds were ( permanently ) formed within sets : not sure about S.W. section but certainly in S.E. div sets with S.E.C.R. stock.

I think that is going to apply to most of us, but I can't see a way of updating the card details.

You may have just received the answer to that ! ......... Kernow have just e-mailed me to ask for updated card details ( by 'phone or replacement order ) .................

I managed to find a picture of Austin No.5 at Longbridge during 1958 just before it was scrapped in Roger Shenton's "Changing Tracks". 

Compared wth the SR locos the cab looks completely different as does the plumbing under the LH side.  I would guess that it was closer to the Rivarossi one in USATC livery, numbered 1948.

it's the other way round - it's the Southern cabs which are different : they were all modified at Eastleigh ....... compare with the N.C.B. or original U.S.A.T.C. models for instance.