Compound2632

12 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/origin-of-the-proof-is-in-the-pudding-meaning

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_proof_is_in_the_pudding

Amply demonstrating that it is a usage current in American English but not in British English, so, as we assume @Budgie, giving his location as Beckenham, is a British English speaker, they may reasonably query it as RMWeb is a forum domiciled in Britain. 

8 hours ago, Budgie said:

I think you meant to say "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". "The proof is in the pudding" is meaningless.

Depends on the context. 'The proof is in the pudding' could be a variant on 'the dog ate my homework'. 

3 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

Apologies if this question is placed in the wrong place but it seems likely that this is where the brains trust most likely to have an answer resides!

 

I'm looking for information as to the height of GN lettering for wagons.  The best I've been able to find is "as large as possible up to a maximum of 30″ high." which whilst useful tends to mean trying to organise some transfers as I don't quite know what wagons will be built at this stage!

 

Any pointers - or suggestions as to the best selection of sizes - would be gratefully received.

 

I think you need photos. There's Tatlow's LNER Wagons Vol. 1, though many of the photos in that naturally show LNER livery, or the various wagon books produced by the Great Northern Railway Society:

https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/shop/

Particularly the 'Wagon Pictorials' not illustrated there but listed in the price list - spiral-bound books of photos, as I recall from seeing them on the Society's stand at exhibitions. There's a discount for society members, I see. If you are serious about modelling the Great Northern, it seems to me that membership of the Society would pay for itself.

Myself, for the one Great Northern wagon I've modelled, I just used the transfers from Old Time Workshop: 

https://www.hamodels.net/cmr081-gnr-old-time-workshop-4mm-decals-gnr-12t-wagons.html

https://www.hamodels.net/old-time-workshop-4mm-decals-gnr-freight-lettering.html

https://www.hamodels.net/old-time-workshop-decals-great-northern-wagons.html

But I got stuck with the pre-1898 livery as there ought to be 3" or 4" high G.N.R on the solebar. 'LOAD 9 TONS' is too tall, compared to the handful of photos I had (mostly from Tatlow).

42 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

I think it is just the blur that makes it look longer, here is a close-up:

Yes, looks like five digits to me. Looking at the side as well, the last two digits are 47, not that that helps much with identification! 

6 minutes ago, wagonman said:

I am constantly bemused by the desire to celebrate a Roman soldier of Cappadocian origin who probably never came within 2000 miles of this septic Isle.

Ah, well, you see, he had the forethought to be martyred on Shakespeare's birthday. Takes some planning.

13 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

'Tis Bathsheba Everdene, her latest film incarnaton.

OK

(OK - oak - geddit?)

43 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Yes, or it could be that she's worried about Gabriel's issue arriving in plastic😮

I'm afraid I have no idea who she is but I welcome confirmation that MRJ is required reading for archangels.

39 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Here is a wholly irrelevant but distracting image to take our minds off nose-less modellers.

She's clearly not yet received her subscription copy of MRJ 303 and is concerned about the condition it will arrive in, in its polybag.

2 minutes ago, JimC said:

But the wheels are larger which means less room between splashers. The intent was that boiler pitch should be the same as the pannier tank, and I assumed footplate height was much the same.  

I think that for a range of locomotives using the same boiler, the constant dimension would be the pitch of the boiler above the centre-line of the cylinders. So pitch of the boiler above rail level would be different for locomotives with different driving wheel diameters. Thus, express passenger engines have higher-pitched boilers than goods engines from the same stable.

One supposes that engines using the same boiler would have cylinders of the same volume; i.e. standardisation of the front end, though if engines with inside and outside cylinders use the same boiler, there might be differences. This might also depend on whether using slide or piston valves.

My understanding is that the polybag wrapping of magazines has been driven by the mail distribution industry, so it's in the hands of the printers (who are often handling distribution) rather than the publishers, at least for these relatively small-circulation magazines. Being lightweight, they help keep postal costs down. There is some backlash against these single-use plastic wraps, though, from a sustainability standpoint; biodegradable versions are starting to appear - the TLS comes in such. 

It seems to be there are two drawbacks:

1. these wraps are not as useful for modelling purposes as the old card-backed envelopes;
2. the name and address insert is not valid ID at polling stations.

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

It would be interesting to see the timber wagon number wagons for the next few years.

I haven't looked at post-grouping Accounts & Statistical Reports; it would be hard to distinguish ex-Midland wagons from other LMS constituent ones. Unsurprisingly, with David Bain as C&W Superintendent, the LMS initially built a substantial number of the final design of Midland 30-ton bogie timber truck. There was steady production of double bolster wagons but single bolster wagons had to wait until the late 1930s [R.J. Essery & K.R. Morgan, The LMS Wagon (David & Charles, 1977]. Throughout the 1920s, LMS wagon-building equated to a renewal rate of 5% per annum, i.e. wagons replaced at 20 years of age, so one might generally expect wagons built before 1910 to have been scrapped by 1930, although that's very much a rule of thumb: Midland Wagons plate 173 shows single bolster truck No. 11114 in LMS bauxite livery in 1947; this wagon has the version of Morton brake with reversing cam, corresponding to Drg. 2970, i.e. lot 698 or 704 built 1908-9.

A timber truck No. 11114 was recorded by a Doncaster number-taker on 29 November 1881 [MRSC 28847]. This number is in a block that has been identified by Andy Brown as being originally 100 timber trucks ordered from Brown Marshalls in 1864. By 1881 building of Clayton's short timber trucks as renewals had only just got under way, so that is likely to have been the original, 17 years old in 1881. It was probably replaced by a short timber truck in the second half of the 1880s - perhaps at 22 years of age. That wagon would in turn have been due for renewal at 22 years of age, in 1908. So there were three generations of timber or single-bolster truck carrying this number over at least 83 years.

7 minutes ago, WFPettigrew said:

Aside from the lovely wagonry, that would have been more than a squeaky bottom moment for the crew, with the firebox crown and indeed inner firebox back well and truly exposed. Get the injectors on and start praying... 

No such heroism. Jump clear, leg it, and trust the fusible plugs! 

1 hour ago, 03060 said:

I've sent these on to Stephen but obviously can't reproduce them here due to copyright.

I commented in reply:

From [rules] 1 & 2, it's clear that a bank engine going beyond Masbury Summit has to remain coupled, which I take to imply that all bank engines were coupled. From [rule] 3, if the bank engine wasn't going beyond the summit, the guard had to uncouple at Binegar down home as a precaution against the bank engine having to make a sudden stop in the event of the automatic staff collection failing. This seems to imply that from Binegar up to the summit, the bank engine wasn't coupled, if it was coming off at the summit. I presume a similar rule applied when the bank engine staff was exchanged by hand?

But all this only applies to the last mile-and-a-bit to the summit; the bank engine will have been coupled up for the six and a half miles from Radstock.

The S&DJR 6-wheel goods brake vans had hatches in the ends, which I suppose were for the guard to lean out of to uncouple; I suppose the cabin end of the 4-wheel brakes did so too. 

Thanks for all this, which has come out of an idle question I asked about a modelled scene posted on Facebook!

To precis the rules for those without the document:

Rule 1 says the bank engine must not go beyond Masbury Summit and must return to Binegar as soon as the brake van has been seen to be over the summit, unless instructions have previously been given for the bank engine to go through the section, i.e. to Masbury, in which case it must remain coupled.

Rule 2 describes the use of a banking engine staff giving permission for the bank engine to be in section - i.e. protecting it on its wrong road return from the summit to Binegar, as drawing the staff locked Binegar's down signals. This staff was not used if the bank engine was to be coupled through to Masbury station - presumably in that case it would return right road to Binegar.

Rule 3 says the bank engine staff is to be picked up by mechanical catcher, not by hand. The guard is instructed to uncouple the bank engine on passing Binegar down home, in case the mechanical catcher fails and the bank engine has to stop. 

6 minutes ago, Penlan said:

Well, not sure what system your using

Perceptual geography. My experience of going to Taunton has been en route to holidays on Exmoor, A303 on summer Saturdays - four hour journey to Kentisbury Ford, feeling almost there at Taunton, because it's after there that on really gets into the holiday mood - not done for over ten years. Wirksworth seems nearer here as I'm going to Derby several times a year and also have been going to Durham nearly as frequently, the A38 / M1 junction (at about the same latitude as Wirksworth) being about half-way.

While I'm here, an apology for lack of modelling posted. I've been preoccupied with an article on timber trucks for the Midland Railway Society Journal, Modelling the Midland, and various other things. 

Here's a taster on timber trucks - may be tinkered with further:

18 minutes ago, billbedford said:

Which part of you won't be there?

 

Inquiring minds an all that. 

Temporal rather than spatial bilocation: the part of me that has a wedding to go to on Saturday morning (not mine). I expect to be on the stand all day Sunday and the latter part of Saturday afternoon though I hope to get some time then for looking round the exhibition; Andrew Surry, our Journal editor-in-chief, is the lead on Saturday. We are hoping to see @John_Miles for a while on both days, though he's officially there as an operator on Pencader - an excellent Welsh GWR layout which I saw recently at the Abingdon show. Regrettably, an appeal to Society members for additional help drew a blank - of other Society EM gauge modellers known to me, one had a prior commitment, another is on Pencader with John, and a third is organising the show!

But if not there in person throughout, some of my wagons will - including a number (one might argue, the more interesting ones) from Mousa kits.

44 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Will you be there yourself?

Partially.

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

And here is 3- planker No. 36365 employed as runner.

Or 34365? Or 34385 or 34305, in descending order of confidence.

Anyway, 3x3yz with x not equal to 9 forces it to be from a lot built with round ends, or possibly the first square-ended lot, os lot 284.

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

I suspect the wagon could be an early dropside P-type.

I think one can make out the axlebox dust-covers.

46 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

Midlands and a mishap at Maltby

The D299 up the bank in the background has 8A grease axleboxes, so is of 1880s vintage; the D299 down the bank has 10A axleboxes, so is from the 1890s, and the up-ended D305 has No. 2 oil axleboxes, so is from the 1900s. More specifically, it has Morton brakes - note the single V-hanger mounted on the rear of the solebar - one each side like that to support the cross-shaft; also, I think, the thicker boss at the pivot end of the brake lever is evidence of the Morton cam. This points to it being from lot 631, 636, or 682, built 1905-1909. Lack of the extra chunky solebar-mounted doorstop points to a later rather than earlier build, if I recall correctly - I haven't looked up my article on these!

On the door of the D299 in the foreground seems to be written:

              July 1907

Midland Railway

    Birmingham

Strange - might it even be added on the negative?

Anyway, points to c. 1906 being on the early side; a date no earlier than July 1907 would fit both this mystery inscription and the D305. Shame neither number is legible.

What's the book?

The Midland Railway Society has a stand at ExpoEM Spring, at Bracknell Leisure Centre next weekend, 11-12 May. There will be Society publications, including back-numbers of the Journal and Modelling the Midland, for sale and of course membership leaflets, with memberships being taken on-the-spot. There will be a display of 4 mm scale models of Midland wagons. (Though not actually EM...)

Ah, well, I merely told the tale as I remembered it.

I note that for all the places in the US called Reading for which Wikipedia gives a pronunciation, the pronunciation given is the same as Reading, Berks, UK and Reading, Berks, PA.

There's the well-known story of the American visitor at Paddington in the 1930s, impressed by the facilities offered by the GWR. Not only dining and sleeping cars but carriages labelled READING and BATH.

2 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

It might have worked. I think I was told or read somewhere the (original) turning and pointing motors were Royal Navy surplus from gun turrets. 

Second-hand, from WWI battleships being broken up at the time: HMS Revenge and Royal Sovereign. 

3 hours ago, br2975 said:

.My father was a cabinet maker and joiner and  went to great pains to explain hammer beams etc to me, and was always aghast at model railway  exhibitions when clerestory was pronounced wrongly; as he said "it is clear-storey" - the apex or ridge of the roof is raised by one storey, to allow in light hence 'clear storey'.

Well, yes, he was used to hearing the pronunciation used in one context and unfamiliar with the pronunciation used in a different context. We had an American visitor who, for the first five minutes, pronounced 'Reading' as if it was Reading, PA, but, being a skilled linguist, very quickly changed to pronouncing it appropriately for the Berkshire context. 

27 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Whether or not bankers were required to  be coupled was laid down in the Sectional Appendix for the location.

Yes, exactly. That's the question!