Pteremy

Isn't that due for announcement on (?) 1st Feb? 

Did you mean to publish the advert on page 105?

I think it's a better approach to regard this new release as an actual 12T tank wagon in fictional liveries than to look at what type of wagon should there be for the liveries announced.

 

That said – I welcome added diversity to early tankers available RTR and this extends to this new Oxford Rail wagon. Personally I can live with a non-authentic livery but that has to be decided by each on his own.

 

I recommend reading "Oil on the Rails" of HMRS publication, you get the idea of tank wagons tailored to the needs of oil firms very much from this book.

Yes, if this is genuinely a smaller diameter tank (5'8"ish) then I think that it will be very welcome. But I would prefer the wagon itself to be to a consistent design ito underframe, wheelbase etc. (to the extent that is possible) even if there is some 'manufacturers licence' involved with the liveries 

Funny how its the books that I want that still seem to command a premium!

But it is sad to see the value of books, on all sorts of subjects, reduced to landfill. My wife tried to donate some children's books to a hospital a few years ago and was told that it is against health and safety rules to accept used books. My strategy (for eBay) is to only try to sell a book if I think I should get £5 or more for it, and ask for appropriate postage. Anything else is given away to an appropriate good cause. 

Venn Cross, on the Taunton-Barnstaple line. Here is one of the points, with what appears to be a bar on the right, 'inside' the point.

Locking bars were sometimes fitted on the switches where fitting them on the immediate approach to the points was not possible. It serves the same purpose.

Fouling bars were different and usually close to the clearance limits on the converging side of a turnout. Used to confirm no vehicles were standing foul before the points could be changed.

 

I would suggest, if you want more definitive answers, that you mention the location of the diagrams and phhotos you are discussing and either provide links or upload them.

Regards

Venn Cross, on the Taunton-Barnstaple line. Here is one of the points, with what appears to be a bar on the right, 'inside' the point.

Yes, very helpful. I am starting to think that the diagram predates the period I am interested in. It has notes for e.g. sidings taken out of use in 1960's but nothing for track circuitry. 

So I am risk of confusing myself even more. I have found a couple of photographs that appear to show some sort of bar, but the other side of the point mechanism, i.e. 'inside' the point itself. Assuming that this is right (and not some sort of optical illusion) a bar in that position, adjacent to a switch blade, must perform a different function?  

Depends where it was!  The photo might not show lock bars for the simple reason that the weren't any and the points were locked by a track circuit.  Now look at these photos - they're ona preserved line but teh signalling and standards are basically Western Region and would be similar to those on force in the late 1950s.

 

First a facing point - it has a standard Reading pattern cover over the facing point lock mechanism but no locking bar as it is locked by a track circuit -

 

IMGP6982.jpg

 

 

Now the relevant signalbox diagram - drawn to more or less Reading DO standards (click on the pic to enlarge it.  The point pictured above is number 19A on the diagram,  and as the diagram is basically to Reading standards the sections of line which are track circuited are coloured black and in this case track circuit AD is the one where this point and point 15A are situtated. As no signals are immediately involved there would be no sign on any signal to indicate that there is a track circuit through these points - track circuit AD is there solely to replace what would otherwise be facing point locking bars on points 15A and 19A.

 

You will also note on the diagram a black rectangle adjacent to the point toe - that rectangle indicates to the Signalman that the point has a facing point lock and shows the appropriate lever number for that FPL.  That is the later Reading Drawing Office standard for indicating an FPL.  The symbols posted above by 'Signal Engineer are the British Standard for signalling plans and what are nowadays known as 'Signal Facilities Drawing' and what were known on the Western Region as 'Locking Sketches'.  Different Drawing offices had different standards for their Region's signalbox diagrams and they didn't necessarily match BS376 but that didn't matter as long as the engineering drawings complied with the standard.

 

IMGP6995.jpg

 

Hope this has helped clarified what I think you were questioning?

Yes, very helpful. I am starting to think that the diagram predates the period I am interested in. It has notes for e.g. sidings taken out of use in 1960's but nothing for track circuitry. 

Depending on what type of plan you are looking, on a signalling plan the symbols would be something like this.

 

TC and Bar.jpg

 

The track circuits would be identified by names such as TA, AAT, T123, etc.

 

Actual presentation details varied slightly between companies and regions, but the standards were laid down in British Standard BS376 Part 1, and now in RSSB standards.

Ok so the diagram has features like your upper diagram, but in the late 1950s photos I am not seeing a bar where I expect one.  Will see if i can find some photos with a different perspective on the point.

Thanks for helping. 

I have not found anything in writing that says so explicitly. But on the track diagram the points in question have a small cross at right angles to the point V. Does that indicate a track circuit? (There is only one short section with an alphanumeric notation on the diagram - 'V26T' - which I had assumed was some sort of circuit. The other stations on the line are similar, in that there are just one or two isolated sections with this sort of designation.)

Otherwise are there any visual clues to look for?

Reviving this thread to ask a related question.

Comparing a Western Region signal box diagram with photographic evidence from the late 1950's I can identify the cover plates for the FPLs in the station layout and the separate controls for point and lock. But I cannot see the 'lock bar' supposedly characteristic of GWR FPLs. So my question is, did Western Region practice change after Nationalisation, to adopt simpler version of FPL control? Or could it just be that I don't have a photograph of good enough quality to show the bar(s)?

This thread is a strange debate. Railroad is explicitly an 'entry level' range. The fact that some of the products appeal to more experienced modellers on a budget, or to those with the skills and experience to turn something modest into a really high class model is a bonus. If the hobby - in its many forms  - is to endure then there must be scope for, indeed a need for, two levels of product specification, with different pricing. 

Presumably you have also already found figs 530 and 531 of Russell's GW Coaches Appendix 2? 

Thanks for a really interesting post!

And so, two years on, it looks like there is still a gap in the market for Class 116s and 118s (and more modern 117s)..........

How does the 'Exhibition and Event' calendar on RMweb compare? If that is comprehensive then maybe the print versions are time served anyway.

I think that 'adapting' a real timetable would be a good thing to do.

Some years ago I spent a summer studying the public timetables for the line and period I intend to model in retirement, generating diagrams a bit like the one that Adrian created. This revealed how many sets of coaches I would need for 100% accuracy, crossing places, how the freight trains fitted round the passenger timings and so on. And it through up all sorts of questions. Some of these I have now resolved through access to further information (for example, working timetables). And cross referencing the information provided by published photos is also helpful. I doubt that even now my understanding is 100% accurate. But I can live with the likely margin of error. More than anything it gives me a great sense of how the whole line was operated, and how those operations changed through time, over and above the plain numbers in the public timetables. And hopefully - some day - I will be able to replicate that to some degree or other.

Out of interest in the Tyseley photo both vans look like they have some sort of name board on the roof? And there is no obvious sign of planking - had they been sheeted over/rebuilt by then, or is it just the quality of the photo?

This thread, and similar others, show how an information vacuum is rapidly filled by speculation and potentially misinformation. Of course ahead of an announcement some of this is inevitable. And in a competitive world some information is 'competition sensitive'. But I think that the Hatton's 'Project Update feature' is something that should now be regarded as 'industry best practice'. So once the 2018 announcements have been made it would be good to see everyone doing something along similar lines, not just in terms of the 2018 announcements but also other things that are somewhere in the production pipeline, even if stalled on the drawing board. And at the risk of becoming unrealistically idealistic, more transparency would also allow those with specialist knowledge to contribute whilst there is still time to influence the outcome.

Think you have to read that in the context of the review of 2017. It does say not far above: we're extremely excited to share regular updates on how we are progressing with our other 2018 models with you over the course of this year.

I am happy to have bought both - but wanted to check before I renumber (or try to forget the inaccuracy).

R6826A is numbered 'B891214' which appears to belong in a batch of ex LMS diag cattle wagons built around the same time. Presumably this is a mistake - or is there any reason to think (or photographic evidence) that either the written record of original numbering was wrong, or that there was some subsequent renumbering? 

(A trivial thing in the grand scheme of things of course.)

I don't know about anywhere else but in South London (e.g. along lines to Croydon) waste swathes of trees have been cut down in the past few years. And each time they appear to have finished they come back for more. Can't just be leaves - some of the trees left look pretty precarious, at danger of falling on to the line, or on to a line side property.

Dream on. Truly we do not know how lucky we are. So lets hope for something that is both a commercial success, and something that is accurate enough to make a small niche of modellers happy, even if  - this time - it does not meet our own needs. There needs to be a viable 'mass market', entry level and ongoing, to keep everything else afloat. 

I doubt that there is a simple answer. As a regular seller (a regularly decluttering collector rather than a business) I am winding down, partly because i expect things to go quiet and partly because the ability to post things is disrupted. I will be starting up again in the new year. With this in mind I have been accepting more offers than i would do normally. If others do the same you may pick up a bargain. On the other hand as a buyer I always take the time to understand the market for whatever it is that I am after. Patience is invariably rewarded!