ForestPines

On 16/10/2020 at 14:47, D6975 said:

The decrepit concrete steps at Lawrence Hill were replaced only a few years ago with steel ones.  I was surprised at the time that they didn't put in a long ramp to the island like the ones at Stapleton Rd.  (Northbound has flat access via Lidl car park for those of you who haven't been there lately.)

What on earth are they going to do at Keynsham?  The station was virtually rebuilt only a couple of years ago.

I'm always amused that at Stapleton Road the new footbridge was given those huge ramps to maintain step-free access to the Down platform; when at some places along the platform it's a 2ft step up from the platform to the train

On 28/09/2020 at 07:01, Ben B said:

Well it's not Brio at least...

 

 

I had a 6x4 layout built by my parents (with Airfix buildings painted by mom), with Thomas, Percy, Duck, Diesel and a selection of wagons back in the mid-80's, but the first 00 gauge train set I ever played with will have been this one.  Wells Brimtoy (or more likely their cheaper brand, Welsotoys) 00 gauge clockwork tank loco and track, and at least second-hand, probably third-hand, by the time it ended up in the toybox at my grandparents house...

 

 

I love this thing, I actually built a layout during lockdown incorporating this set so I'd have somewhere to run this, and a few other 00 clockwork locomotives

 

 

Ooh, I had a very similar set, I think with the same loco but with grey plastic track.

I also had a couple of Lesney Matchbox push-along train sets, including one with a coal conveyor and tippler wagons.  The coal was little lumps of shiny black plastic, I think probably 1mm round rod that had been chopped up, and it got absolutely everywhere.

My first "proper train set" was Hornby R597, the "Super Sound Freight Set" with a sound generator which you wired up to the controller, so that its rate of chuff would match the track voltage.

On 27/09/2020 at 11:22, Torn-on-the-platform said:

 

Really enjoyed this movie. SVR features heavily, though as usual some continuity errors crept in. 2857 changed tender mid-way through a dramatic scene, which it kept for the rest of the film. The replacement was comically oversized and I think, most likely a practical filming prop which was then sliced in with CGI for the wider angles. It gave memories of the 'C-dog' in the early years at the Bluebell with 9017 running with SE&CR 592's tender.

I rather liked the way they CGI'd in some wild-looking hilly landscapes in the background of Kidderminster, to hide the car park and the diesel shed.  It was pleasing to see that much of the on-train footage was actually shot from a moving train in the AY-HY section, going by the views out of the window.

Overheard some random people in the street talking about how good the film was yesterday, so I was tempted to interject with "apparently, you can even go and ride on the train they used to film it!!!" and see if I could reel some potential passengers in...

Yes; sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant specifically the AD&R from Bassaleg to the docks

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

One source I have not mentioned so far (because to my shame I forgot about it) o is whether or not the area i covered in Tony Cooke's 'Track layout Diagrams of the GWR  etc'.   Tony is a punctilious and very careful careful researcher who will almost certainly have got to the bottom of what happened at Bassaleg if he has yet dealt with the area. (it has not yet appeared in the latest revised series and there is so far no indication of when it might appear).  If/when it becomes available it will be the authoritative source without a doubt.

 

The Area has been covered to some extent in John Hodge's books about Newport and the Western Valleys (which I heartily recommend to anyone interested in that area and it includes photos of two former AD&R signalboxes at the ends of Mendalgief yard.  I would think that originally the section between West Mendalgief and Bassaleg loop signal boxes (including the Golden Mile) was probably a single Permissive Block section but from GWR days Park Jcn was also involved with the former AD&R line and it had double junction connections, in both directions, between it and the Western Valleys Relief Lines.

 

Alas - in many respects - I came to the area far too late to know much about its history or what had once been there.   Although I'd visited Pill shed (the one time AD&R depot) in 1962 I didn't work in the Newport area until 1974 and by that time Bassaleg had ceased to exist as a physical junction and the remnant of the B&M line joined the Western Valley line at Park Jcn - all very much part of my patch as I spent all my relatively short time at Newport dealing with/responsible for operation on the remaining Western Valleys lines and branches.  So Park Jcn was a signal box for which I had managerial responsibility but it was hardly even a faint shadow of its former self by then.

 

If you're interested in the B&M you have probably already found the site with photos from Derek (DSM) Barrie's collection -

 

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/discover/owner/D. S. M. Barrie

 

 

I assumed the AD&R would have been likely to use permissive block, given they operated a heavily-trafficked freight-only route.

I did indeed find that photo collection, once I'd worked out that a lot of the good stuff on that site isn't geotagged very well!  Indeed, a couple of the pictures are linked to in my first post.  I'm slowly collating a list of B&M-related photos in the various online archives - Amgueddfa Cymru have some nice photos of B&M locos digitised but most of their relevant holdings seem to have an online catalogue entry but no digital version as yet.

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

It would for example seem rather odd to me that the GWR would later go to a lot of expense just to double the former AD&R line between the junction at Bassaleg and the former B&M station.

My assumption from the SRS diagram of Bassaleg Jn was that they didn't double the whole of that single-line stretch - instead they put in a double junction between the AD&R line and the B&M line at Bassaleg Jn, and the former AD&R single line became a loop or refuge (the Bassaleg Jn diagram doesn't show a loop entry, and the SRS don't seem to have a diagram at all for Bassaleg South, the first ex-B&M box).

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Also the 25" OS map doesn't shw any connection between the AD&R and the GWR Western Valley line which sounds rather unusual although quite possible.  What is clear - from John Hodge's book - is that Bassaleg Loop signal box,  at the end of the AD&R line, was closed in 1925 implying that control of the AD&R then went onto the GWR Bassaleg 'box on the Down side (and thus as shown on the SRS diagram).  

There's also no connection between the AD&R and the Western Valley shown on the RCH diagram for the period - it implies that pre-grouping traffic from the Western Valley to Newport Docks would have to travel via Maesglas Jn.  It makes sense that the GWR would want to maximise their own mileage, rather than letting traffic slip onto the AD&R at the earliest opportunity, obviously not an issue after 1922.

Have to admit I didn't spot how Bassaleg Loop and Bassaleg Jn boxes were situated almost opposite each other until after I'd posted the thread.  Did the AD&R have any other signalboxes?

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The question would of course be answered by an accurate diagram of the original track layout at the Newport end of Bassaleg B&M station.  It is of course conceivable that the Board of Trade's Inspecting Officer had given permission for an unusual junction between the B&M and the AD&R because he was persuaded not to consider it 'an ordinary case'.  While the AD&R only operated freight/mineral trains over the connection the B&M and the PC&N (at various times) both operated passenger trains over what, by implication, was a facing crossover in a passenger railway - something normally very heavily frowned upon by HMRI.  It would be interesting ti search out any original AD&R/B&M documentation and plans - if they survive - to establish more reliably exactly what form the tracj  k layout took in this area.  

I've only been learning about the B&M for a few weeks, but it already seems apparent it's a very under-documented railway with little in the way of bibliography; unless I'm missing something, the best book on it still seems to be the Oakwood Press book first published in the 1950s.  It sounds like the answer to this will need a trip to the archives!

18 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Apologies to the OP!

No need to apologise!  It is fascinating to read accounts like that in any case, even if they're off-topic for the thread.  And, speaking of which...

20 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Slightly OT but as an Ex Southern man you should know that there was a form TCB on the L&SWR auto signalled sections before the Great War. (although your excuse will no doubt be that you had nothing to do with the South western.  

I should have course have remembered that there were automatic signals on the NER and GCR which could probably be described as a form of TCB, although I haven't read the relevant regulations for them.  I suppose I was being cavalier in using "TCB" as shorthand for a modern style of track layout that doesn't avoid using facing points, rather than choosing my terms carefully: the two are not necessarily connected

I'd always thought that the single-lead junction was a modern innovation, or at least, a post-1960 innovation along with TCB and suchlike.  However, recently I was looking at some South Wales lines on old OS maps and came across an interesting layout at Bassaleg Jn.

Firstly, if you don't know the area, here's the RCH diagram of the area from 1914.  We have the Great Western (yellow), the Brecon & Merthyr (blue), and the Alexandra Docks & Railway (purple).  Note that in 1914 there is no connection shown from the GWR to the AD&R.

Now, here's that represented on the OS 25" map revised in 1916.  Note how the junction between the B&M and the AD&R is with a facing crossover and single lead; the AD&R is single track until a point just past the GWR signalbox, where it becomes double track. 

Now, nowadays this wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but this is in pregrouping days.  Here's a photo of Bassaleg B&M station platforms: the signal in the picture is the one shown on the map over on the left.   Zooming in seems to show ringed arms for both the goods loop and the AD&R line.

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/562399

Was this layout only possible because the AD&R was a goods-only line?  How was it signalled, and how was the point where the AD&R goes from single line to double controlled?  Plus, how long did it last?  The SRS diagram of the GWR box at Bassaleg Jn is clearly from a later date and shows the AD&R joining the B&M with a double junction close to the eastern end of the B&M goods loop - see https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwj/S1313.htm.  This change is also borne out from photos of the B&M station in latter days, such as https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/562402 - you can see here that the signal has been replaced without the right-hand doll, the facing crossover has gone, and the former AD&R line appears to be some form of up loop or recess.

Does anyone have any information on how this was signalled in pre-grouping days, and particularly how traffic on the AD&R was worked?  Were single-lead junctions like this relatively common in that period, or is this an unusual oddity?

Network Rail are currently saying the bridge move will be in 5 to 7 weeks from now, from October 24th to November 7th.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/great-western-mainline/south-gloucestershire/

Bristol City Council has announced that the oldest buildings at Barton Hill shed will be added to its Local List of buildings that are not formally listed but whose heritage deserves recognition in the planning system.

The press release is at https://news.bristol.gov.uk/news/historic-industrial-buildings-have-their-moment-in-the-spotlight-in-bristols-local-list

You can see the entry for Barton Hill by going to https://maps.bristol.gov.uk/kyp/?edition=bristol&layer=Community layer&x=360468.4&y=172854.85&extent=167.18# and clicking on the arrow in the top-right of the "speech balloon"

9 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Can you actually get a train from Patchway to Parkway?

I don't think it's possible on a regular basis although there might be a few oddities, like the morning Cardiff-Manchester that goes via Temple Meads, but that would be a very long way round anyway! It uses to be the case that one of the first TM-Cardiff slow trains of the day went via Parkway but that disappeared in the last timetable change.

The closure between Kidder and Highley has been advertised for about a month or so, I think, so hopefully not too many people who booked further ahead will have been affected.

4 hours ago, martinT said:

2857 approaches with the 12.00 departure from Kidderminster. This is the GW toplight rake tailed by the Siphon G & it won't stop at Highley (even tho' the TT describes it as a local train!):

 

The reason it was described as a local was because of the restricted amount of seating space, compared to a full-length set. It was belled as a Class A Express Passenger, however, as it didn't stop everywhere.

33 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Sadly you are right, it's absolutely massive. I had no idea it was being put in there.

 

When I first saw it in reality, the bottom of the ramp looked so close to the platform end that I wondered how easy it would actually be to turn around a large pushchair or wheelchair in the space available

Didn't "Designing A Layout" by Barry Norman feature a Lyonesse-based design? Or am I thinking of something by Iain Rice?

I think nowadays we have very little sense of just how huge this traffic was and what was involved in getting it run without delays.

 

I mentioned New Clee yard above.  It had two main purposes - one was marshalling fish trains from Grimsby Fish Docks and the corresponding empty wagons, and the other was delivering coal to trawlers; the third, on summer Saturdays, was acting as overflow carriage sidings for Cleethorpes excursion trains.

It's hard to find photos of it online - if you go to http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/JohnWillerton/Cleethorpes2.htm and head down to the bottom, the penultimate picture, taken from Fuller St footbridge, is as good a shot as you are likely to find anywhere.  The sidings to the right of the water column are for coal (with the three coal chutes visible in the distance); the fish sorting sidings are in the distance, but you can hopefully get an idea of their scale.  Looking at an early-60s OS map: there were 23 sorting roads for fish traffic, all about 600yds long, and 18 much shorter roads for coal.

I suspect you may be thinking of John Bevan's O gauge layout on permanent display at Skeldergate in a building that later became a gym and now looks to be apartments (from streetview). Before that it had a spell in Leak and Thorpes in Coney Street during the miners strike, three day week and power cuts. It may only have been there for the run up to Christmas.

O Gauge sounds about right.

I do remember it was one of the places at which Rail Riders members could claim a sticker to add to their wall frieze! I think the sticker showed a hand holding a model loco

I think there have been two permanent model railways in York. York Model Railway, which originally opened as Rail Riders World, and another which I only have vague memories of but which was located roughly somewhere around Parliament St or Coney St. It must have closed in the mid-80s.

Further north there's a National Trust property on the outskirts of Middlesbrough that has several layouts: there's an EM gauge Corfe Castle and an OO model of a local stretch of the ECML

Of the photos in this thread, I suspect the one most likely to be definitely and unarguably fish traffic is the one taken at New Clee (two photos above the bottom one in the original post), as (I think) the wagons are standing on the roads that were used to trip fish traffic and/or empties from Grimsby Fish Docks, where they were loaded, to New Clee yard, where outbound fish trains were assembled; and those lines were pretty much only ever used for fish traffic. The road bridge in the background was (and is) the main road access to the Fish Docks.

There was still some support for blue rail after the introduction of grey. I think some blue rail stuff was still in the catalogue circa '82 or so; and I had a copy of the Trains Idea Book (catalogue no. 7777) which did have a reasonable amount of blue rail content.

Regardless of who's out of step here, it makes perfect sense for up the Valleys to be Up because of the orientation of the connection at Cardiff Central.

You can get to Radyr and points beyond by leaving Cardiff Central in either direction, though.

When did Lego drop the 12V system with a central supply/return conductor rail?

As I mentioned above, the Midland re-miled its network from St Pancras after it extended there.  The Great Central did something different with its own London extension - Up was towards Marylebone but the mileposts ran from Manchester via Woodhead.  This is one of fairly few lines where mileage increases in the Up direction, another being the modern Liverpool and Manchester but as the zero is now at Lime Street today's mileposts wouldn't match the original ones.  Curiously the CLC route also has a zero in Liverpool and is Up towards Manchester. 

The surviving ex-Great Central lines in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire generally have the Up direction being towards Cleethorpes; I suppose this would have meant that an Up train leaving Sheffield would stay an Up train whether it was heading towards London or Grimsby.

One of the most confusing arrangements I have found in Quail is on the Great Central near Kirk Sandall.  It's a four track section of line, and for about half a mile or so approaching Kirk Sandall Junction the lines are designated Up, Down, Up, Up - trains on the first Up line travelling in the same direction as ones on the Down.  The reason behind it is that trains on that Up line have to diverge onto the South Yorkshire Joint line, on which Up and Down are the other way round.

Filton Bank reopened on Monday as scheduled - here are a couple of low-quality phone snaps of Stapleton Road station at 9am on Monday morning.

I was interested to see an Up Main platform face has been built at Stapleton Road.

I wondered why there was a well tank heading down the M5 on Wednesday!

The problem is then whether the trains are frequent enough (sometimes an issue for passengers breaking their journeys on the Welsh Highland, although I can understand why running fewer, longer trains is better from a cost and practicality point of view).

From a practicality point of view, the WHR only has two carriage sets. Therefore having more than three trains per day each way (the high season timetable in recent years) gets a bit tricky.