Art Dent

Exactly. As per my original post, I want to fit a small, cheap-ish decoder plus stay-alive into my Grandson's 0-4-0 Percy so that he can (a) run it slowly if required and (b) crawl across pointwork without the danger of stalling. Being an 0-4-0 albeit with pickups on all wheels, it is most likely to stall on a point - and that would like as not be in the most awkward part of the layout! Art

Slightly diffeent, I know, but i had a brand new Guagemaster DCC27 Omni decoder which was faulty out of the box. Plugged it into the socket, tested that I could read CVs before applying full track voltage and the loco took off like a scalded cat.. Took the loco (still with the decider fitted) back to Rails to demonstrate the fault and they immediately replaced the decoder with another brand new unit. This one was completely dead when they tested it in the shop. Third decoder was fine and worked as expected - so just because a unit is brand new doesn’t necessarily mean it will be fault-free. Given the huge numbers of products produced, you can’t test every one so a sampling regime may well miss the odd rogue (or batch). Art

Hi Nigel, Totally agree that there doesn't seem to be enough components to be a voltage doubler - however the rwo components marked '1P' and 'SH1' appear to be transistors and as such the basis of a crude astable multivibrator (aka timer). Most voltage doublers seem to use a 555 timer IC and some diodes. I didn't have the time to figure out/measeure the input/output voltages of the stay-alive. See this post to see what I have been up to >> http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140720-fitting-a-decoder-to-Hornby-r9288-0-4-0-percy/?p=3410846 Kind regards, Art

A photo-guide to fitting a decoder to Hornby's 'Thomas the Tank Engine' locomotive No.6 'Percy' (R9288) Below is my pictorial guide to hard-wiring a decoder to Hornby's 0-4-0 locomotive 'Percy' Step 1 - removing the locomotive body. The body of this locomotive is held in place by just four clips, two at the front of the chassis (just behind the cylinders) and two at the rear (just behind the rear axle). To remove the body you need a flat-bladed screwdriver to prise the body away from the chassis at the front. The picture below shows the 'proper' way to remove the body (as explained in the instruction sheet/user guide that accompanies the locomotive). I found it best to put the blade of the screwdriver between the top of one of the two front wheels and the body which releases the clip on one side. The other clip is released by 'rocking' the body from side to side. Once the front clips are released, lift the front of the body clear of the chassis which releases the rear clips. The motor together with two suppression capacitors and an inductor can now be seen together with the rather ugly motor retaining clip, The wiring is really quite neat. Step 2 - removing the motor. Ease the wires away from the sides and top of the motor and release the spring retaining clip (making a note of its correct orientation FIRST). The online Hornby guide to fitting a decoder to the 0-4-0 chassis says to cut the wires at the motor end and to unsolder the pick-up wires from the pickups. THIS IS UNNECESSARY As can be seen below, the motor, capacitors & inductor and pick-up wires can be removed in one. Step 3 - removing the capacitors and inductor. The two flat, brown capacitors (marked '104' in the picture below) and the inductor (covered in black heat-shrink sleeving on the right) can be cut from the two black pick-up wires. I made the cut just about at the motor-end of each pick-up wire (these can be trimmed later if too long). The large 'flat' grey thing through which the two capacitor leads pass through is just a spacer. The two capacitors and inductor can now be unsoldered from the two motor terminals and discarded - they are not required for running under DCC. DO NOT unsolder the two black pick-up wires from the pickups! This is best avoided as Percy (in common with the other 'cheap' 0-4-0 locomotives) has a plastic chassis. Step 4 - refitting the motor. Replace the motor back in the chassis (after insulating the motor to avoid any possibility of shorts) in the same orientation as its initial fitting - so that the two motor contacts are uppermost. (the online Hornby guide suggests re-fitting the motor upside-down). DON'T FORGET to replace the motor retaining clip!! The next few pictures show a 'dry run' of wiring the LaisDCC decoder and so neither has the motor casing been insulated nor the motor retaining clip been fitted as this was my 'first attempt' at hard-wiring 'Percy'. You can see the two discarded capacitors and inductor in the background of this picture. Step 5 - fitting and testing the decoder. The steps below show the initial fitting and testing of the LaisDCC 860012 NEM651 + 2 stay-alive wires decoder. Step 5a - preparing the decoder Not wanting to cut any wires short at this stage, I planned to 'bundle up' the quite long decoder wires in case the decoder didn't end up in this loco after all. Note how the white and yellow wires have been trimmed to different lengths (to prevent possible short-circuiting). The white and yellow wires were then folded back on each other several times and wrapped in heat-shrink to prevent short circuits (which can destroy a decoder) NEVER LEAVE ANY BARE WIRES WHEN FITTING & TESTING A DECODER IF YOU INTEND TO APPLY POWER TO THE DECODER AT ANY STAGE! I have blown up a £100 Zimo sound decoder making just this mistake - the two wires that shorted were the wires that went to the speaker (which wasn't connected at that stage) Step 5b - conneting the decoder to the track pickups Solder the red and black wires to the track pickup wires. With the loco facing forward and as viewed from the driver's perspective, RED wire to TRACK RIGHT and BLACK wire to TRACK LEFT Step 5c - soldering the decoder wires to the motor. Now solder the orange and grey wires to the motor. Theoretically, grey and black go on the left (grey to motor left and black to track left) and red and orange on the right (orange to motor right and red to track right), however, if you find your loco goes backwards when the throttle says forwards, simply reverse the motor connections (i.e. orange to motor left and grey to motor right) . Step 5d - testing the stay-alives. I initially wired up the stay-alives that I purchased at the same time as the decoder in order to test out their effectiveness. The small one did very little (save a VERY brief stutter BACKWARDS when track power was removed) whilst the larger stay-alive ran on for a VERY IMPRESSIVE 25 seconds - but at full power and in reverse! The stay-alive wires were therefore not fitted, and the stay-alive decoder wires were isolated as shown here whilst the decoder installation was tested on a programming track and rolling road. Step 5e - testing the 'Heath Robinson' wired decoder. The Heath-Robinson wired decoder being tested on the rolling road. It ain't pretty, but it worked first time ... Another view ... Step 6 - 'Proper' installation. Motor now insulated with Kapton tape and re-installed in the plastic chassis: Notice anything missing - yes, the motor retaining clip! I fabricated a small plastic shelf above worm gear for decoder to sit on and black-tacked it in place: Everything wired up (apart from stay-alive). Everything (wires, decoder support and decoder) is black-tacked in place. So much MORE useful than Blu-tack (i.e. get some)! Step 7 - testing the installation. Percy with body re-fitted on the rolling road test track. Everything works (for now, fingers crossed). I don't know why but some pictures (most) are HUGE and others are rather smaller. Can't seem to do anything about it though, Some observations With hindisght (wonderful thing that it is) I would have left the decoder 'free' on the end of the long wires and fed the wiring above the motor (there's lots of room), black-tacking the decoder in the coal bunker. With the body removed, a small (and easy to release) clip holds the top of the cab and fake coal in place. Once removed, there is ample space to fit the decoder and a stay-alive under the coal, and the cab roof and coal is then easily clipped back in place. Given that the LaisDCC decoder and its stay-alive behave in such a bizarre fashion (as noted above - see step 5d), I will replace this decoder with a DCC Concepts Zen 218 decoder and one of DCC Concepts own super stay-alives and put this LaisDCC decoder (without the stay-alive) into the all-wheel pickup, 0-6-0 Thomas (R9287). I feel that Percy - being an 0-4-0 locomotive - will be more prone to stopping when crossing points or at isolated (dirty) parts of the track (and probably in the most inaccessible of places!) I hope that you have found this guide helpful, informative or simply entertaining!, I aim to do a similar illustrated decoder installation guide for Hornby's Thomas R9287 (which, should be a lot simpler!) when the afore-mentioned Zen 218 decoder arrives after Christmas. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. Art

Hello folks, Just received a couple of commercial stay-alives and opened them up to have a look-see. First - a single (small-ish) stay-alive This contains a 16V 470uF capacitor ... and what I'm guessing is a simple resistor/diode charging/discharging circuit.. I'm a bit worried that this is only a 16V capacitor though! The larger stay-alive is a bit more interesting ... It contains four 2.7V 1.0F (yes, 1 Farad) super-capacitors ... ... and what I think is a dc-dc voltage doubling circuit ... I can't identify some of the surface mount components in this circuit - one is labelled 'WG', one is labelled '1P' and one is labelled 'SH1'. I think the component above (labelled 'WG') is a Transient Voltage Suppression Diode (rated 6V as far as I can tell from Googling) ... and I think that these two are transistors forming an astable circuit?? There is also a large 1k5 surface mount resistor. There is also a small (as far as I can tell) unmarked component - a diode or resistor (just underneath the large resistor in the picture below) Any ideas what the other components are. Are my guesses correct? Cheers, Art

Thanks for the clarification and extra info STH. Don't know what CD motor conversions are (unless you mean the 5v/12v motors from CD drives??) Just concerned a little though as I read elsewhere that CD motor conversions don't play well with stay alives :/ Art

Hi tractor, BiB - absolutely fine. Looking to fabricate a loco stay-alive using supercapacitors similar to this http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54342-making-your-own-keepstay-alive-units/?p=3300821 and will post pictures of my efforts (probably in the New Year after all the Christmas shenanigans are over). I have ordered a couple of loco stay-alives which I think are using 2.7v supercapacitors in series, so I intend to take them apart to see if they have any balancing circuitry (I suspect that they don't!) All the best to everyone for Christmas and the New Year. Art

Hi STH, Thank you for that - I'd completely forgotten about LaisDCC decoders at about a tenner a pop. If the 860009 is the same as that sold by Digitrains of Lincoln then it has a fair amount of energy storage as it powers my O-gauge Dapol 08 for around 10 sec and the sound for just under a minute. Most decoders seem to have the blue & black stay-alive leads - you say that you make your own stay-alives. Do you use ordinary electrolytics or super-capacitors and if the latter, what size/capacity/voltage. Do you attempt to fit a balancing circuit at all? Thanks in advance, Art

Hi Nick, He may well indeed run the loco at 'full chat' although he does like to see my 9F slowly trundling around the test layout and has got his head around how to work the NCE PowerCab throttle (not bad for a just-3-year-old). However, I thought I'd fit a stay-alive just in case he crawls the loco across a point and it stalls (the loco I'm thinking of is Hornby's R9288 Percy - which is an 0-4-0 and so may be prone to stalling). There's plenty of room inside Percy (both at the front of the loco above the worm gear and between the chimney and dome and also in the bunker area) to hardwire a small decoder (such as DCC Concepts DCD Z218 decoder) and a stay-alive such as Digitrain's 860009 (which is hardly bigger than a 5p piece). Currently he has Bachmann's train set loco No.49 Stuart (which is a bit of a dog tbh and doesn't do slow running at all well). Hi Rob, I've been re-thinking and rather than try to solder to the minute tabs on a decoder's motherboard (assuming you can find the correct places to solder that is), I think I'll go for DCC Concepts Z218 decoder (which already has the blue and black stay-alive wires soldered to the decoder motherboard) and so negating the need to (a) find the correct places to solder and (b) having to micro-solder the stay-alive. It is slightly more expensive than the Gaugemaster DCC27 Omni decoder that I purchased this morning from Rails - but not bank-breakingly so. As a general rule I try to stay away from Hornby DCC stuff as there is a lot which isn't NMRA-compliant. I do have one Hornby loco decoder which came in a s/hand DCC-fitted Class 108 DMU in the dummy car - acting as a function-only decoder - but I have no idea as to which model it is nor how many functions. Suffice it to say that both my Prodigy Express system (now replaced) and NCE PowerCab have trouble reading back the CVs on that particular decoder - so it doesn't inspire confidence. R9288 seems easy enough to do, once I've figured out which of the black wires are the track pickups and which are the motor feeds. I suspect that the track pickups go directly to either side of the motor as this 'model' is not marketed as 'DCC Ready'. Will photo-document my exploits at hard-wiring a decoder into Percy for any folks that might follow in my footsteps. I also have R9287 Thomas for him which I will DCC chip and I'll also photo-document that. Again there is a lot of space at the front of the chassis between the dome and chimney as this picture clearly shows https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_06_2015/post-9747-0-41248800-1435492903_thumb.jpg ). There is a small (insulated) screw that holds the motor in place so a piece of 1mm plasticard could be mounted here and the decoder fixed to the top (and perhaps a stay-alive on the underside). All the best Rob and Nick for the festive season. Art

Hi Folks, I know that the 2-function DCC Concepts ZN6D (at £22.95) will accept a stay-alive (indeed it is packaged with a small stay-alive) but I was wondering if the following decoders would accept a stay-alive and if so, how easy they are to fit (I'm assuming that it is highly likely that some soldering to the decoder's motherboard is required). Hornby 4-function decoder R8249 (at £15.50) Bachmann 4-function decoder 36-566 (at £15.50) Gaugemaster 4-function DCC27 Omni decoder (at £16.95) The decoders have to be small as I am thinking of fitting the decoder into Hornby's R9288 Percy locomotive for my grandson and I'm guessing that space inside will be somewhat at a premium. Best wishes for the festive season and thanks in advance. Art

Hi Hobby The BIG problem is that some manufacturers DON'T switch the rears on when the headlights go on as it wasnt made mandatory. Why? Who knows (shrugs). I'm pretty sure my Octavia does the same as your Golf. Not sure about our last MY Focus however ... Totally agree with the bit in red in your post. Art

Interestingly here in the Uk this very issue of daytime running lights (DRLs) and the fact that they may be on at the front but not at the back has just been in the news. For some reason (shrugs) when DRLs were intorduced having the rear lights come on when the front DRLs come on wasn't made mandatory. This has been highlighted (no pun intended there) this week as the UK has had several days of mist/fog and general gloom and whilst you can see lots of cars coming towards you, you can't see many from behind. People are seemingly relying on the DRLs instead of turning their dipped headlights on (which turns the lights on at both the front and the back). What seems to have made the matter worse is the introduction by several manufacturers to fit 'Auto Headlamps' which again seems to put only the front headlamps on and not the rears and only when it gets really dark does the system put the rear lights on. I think most people are completely unaware that this happens (I could have said they were in the dark ). Here are just four articles on this from the last week. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV8_OMuZLfAhWUs3EKHWuSCUwQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.petrolprices.com%2Fnews%2Fdaytime-running-lights-creating-confusion-other-drivers%2F&usg=AOvVaw0JNggiqY-QPvo7pVupk5xt https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV8_OMuZLfAhWUs3EKHWuSCUwQFjABegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rac.co.uk%2Fdrive%2Fnews%2Fmotoring-news%2Fdaytime-running-lights-cause-night-time-danger-rac-research-reveals%2F&usg=AOvVaw3t9x-tmzflX7ChtPOTDYc_ https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV8_OMuZLfAhWUs3EKHWuSCUwQFjACegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.honestjohn.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fdriving-1%2F2018-12%2Fdlr-confusion-for-drivers%2F&usg=AOvVaw2pLEPry0sVoPV9Ca0oRwrq https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV8_OMuZLfAhWUs3EKHWuSCUwQFjADegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoexpress.co.uk%2Fcar-news%2F105391%2Fdrivers-confused-by-car-daytime-running-lights&usg=AOvVaw3-ekz9vw8VrajJSBppgKud What I don't understand is with modern LED technology fitted to virtually every new car, why the lights front and rear aren't permanently on. The power consumption of these LEDs is so low that it has a negligible effect on fuel economy - but then I am never amazed at the general stupidity of people when making important deciscions!

Thanks Will look to be getting one of these shortly. Whilst constructing the van I aim to add pickups to the wheels and a red LED 'tail lamp' Just to get this correct, how many lamps should be showing for unfitted or partially fitted freight? A single red to the rear or three with red to the rear and white on either side showing towards the loco? Cheers Art

Hi I'm looking to build one of these kits or the Parkside model - is there space under the ballast to add some lead flashing (it is about 2-3mm thick). Also, is it possible to spray the underframe separately from the van body to avoid masking off then attach the van body to the chassis/underframe? Cheers Art

Unless the visibility is poor - eg rain/mist/fog. It can be quite bright so that only the day-time running lights at the front are illuminated whilst the rears are not. Granted, you shouldn't be travelling too fast and be able to stop in the distance you can see but ... It has been very misty/foggy here this morning and a new Range Rover just went past me. I noticed that there were no rear lights showing and he was soon lost in the gloom. I bet the front day-time running lights were on however. Art

@bewricksfinest, Whilst I don't at all disagree that that is what you were told, it still doesn't make any sense to me. Why was a single light deemed to be better than two? Post no. 4 by Pete the Elaner suggests it was to avoid dazzling oncoming drivers - but surely that would be more of a problam at night (when admittedly the cess-side light is lit whilst the other isn't) but if the headlights were angled downwards (like the dipped headlights on a car) it would still illuminate the track and make the loco more visible, but it wouldn't dazzle on-coming drivers due to their height above the track. You second point still applies regardless of whether one light or two are lit at all times (think car headlamps here). Please don't think I'm 'having a go' at you, I'm not. I'm just trying to see the logic of having one headlamp that swaps sides according to whether it was day-time or night rather than having both lamps lit regardless of the time of day. I'm probably going to have to run with "well it made sense to somebody" when they made the rules. Kind regards Art

Hi Mark, Thanks for those replies. I knew that TOAD was the telegraph code for a freight brake van - but why TOAD? Was it simply a random name like SIPHON, MINK and MOGO? Regarding my second question, I'm looking for the reason why the headlight was swapped over from day-time running to night-time running. To me it makes no sense as I would have thought anything that makes the loco more visible would be advantageous. In a similar vein, I'm puzzled about modern cars and their 'Daytime Running Lights' which are usually LEDs. Why are the dipped headlights or LED lights on at the front but there are no lights showing to the rear?? Art

Okay, a couple of questions regarding the prototype railway that have been puzzling me for a while (one of them for years). Qu.1 Why were TOAD brake vans called TOAD? Was this an acronym. I gather that they weren't restricted to the GWR as I recently came across a double-ended LNER TOAD E. Qu.2 Why do modern diesels, DMUs and EMUs have day and night running lights and marker lights which switch? For example, the Class 66 'Sheds' have a total of seven lights at both ends. Three 'Marker' lights, two headlights and two tail lights. When running during the day, the central marker light and both lower marker lights are lit plus the left-hand headlight (when looking at the front of the loco). At night-time, the central marker light stays lit as do the lower marker lights, but the headlight switches sides, so that the headlight is now on the right. I know that this headlight is angled in such a way as to illuminate any trackside signage, but why not have both headlights on when running, regardless of whether it be day-time or night? I know that in the yard, the headlight is not used - only the marker lights - but I don't understand why the headlight switches sides according to the time of day. Hope the good folks of RMWeb-land can answer these. Over to you ... Art

Hi Charlie Yes, I could have done that - but it means either a permanent connection between loco and tender or a plug & socket arrangement - neither of which I fancied. With my install [1] all of the components - decoder, small 470uF stay-alive and sugar cube sepaker - fit inside the locomotive body and [2] the fitting is so simple that even a 'novice' to DIY Sound Decoder & Speaker installation could do it. The only things that folks have to watch out for is [1] installing plenty of insulation tape (e.g. Kapton) around the decoder and/or around the front end of the chassis weight (ballast weight) to ensure no short circuits [2] inclining the front end of the MX645 downwards slightly to ensure the decoder doesn't foul the body [3] making sure that all wiring is fastened down (using black-tack, insulation tape or a combination). I fitted heat-shrink to the capacitor leads and speaker terminals of the second 9F install as a 'belt & braces' approach - link here :http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138515-Bachmann-9f-sound-decoder-small-stay-alive-and-speaker-fitting/?p=3335144 Looking back at that install, there is pobably room to fit a much bigger speaker in the same position - possibly a Zimo LS26X20X08 (with 3D Printed Resonance Cavity) and certainly a Zimo LS18X13X13 (which also has a fitted resonence cavity) Art.

Wow - interesting data Phil. The Hornby traces look horrifying in comparison! Art

Hi Richard So much easier than looking at the space and guessing that a certain speaker will fit. With the Baccy 9F's it looked like there was space behind the chassis weight and the boiler backplate moulding for a speaker, so I mocked up a sugar cube speaker out of wood to check. I will now look at the space either side of the Dapol 08's body - I already have a Zimo twin speaker in the nose behind the radiator grille - but good as they are, the sound lacks some 'depth' and in the power car of the Hornby Class 43 'Valenta' TTS units (my son has a cunning plan to have TWO power cars - one at each end rather than a power car and a dummy). Results of my investigations will be posted on the forum. Cheers, Art

Hi Folks, Don't know if anyone is interested but I put some pictures of my install of a Zimo Mx645R with stay-alive and sugar cube speaker in the 'Motors & Drive Systems' part of the Skills & Knowledge Centre section. Possibly in the wrong place as nobody seems to have replied? Link: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138515-Bachmann-9f-sound-decoder-small-stay-alive-and-speaker-fitting/ Art

Hi Folks, Don't know if anyone is interested but I put some pictures of my install of a Zimo Mx645R with stay-alive and sugar cube speaker in the 'Motors & Drive Systems' part of the Skills & Knowledge Centre section. Possibly in the wrong place as nobody seems to have replied? Link: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138515-Bachmann-9f-sound-decoder-small-stay-alive-and-speaker-fitting/ Art

Useful info, thanks Richard. Art