MikeCW

10 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Not quite certain where to post this but since i model HD & Trix.Liking a challenge,i`ve just bought these Trix card kits for LNER teak coaches.Somewhere on RMweb,there are some posts regarding the building of these,if anyone can point me in the right direction,i`d be grateful.

 

                                 Ray.

This is the only link I could find Ray. By chance I stumbled on the topic a week or two ago.  As you posted on this thread you probably have it bookmarked already, but others following this topic may not.

Mike

15 hours ago, Wolseley said:

I have now finished wiring my layout, although the wires still have to be tidied up and signals fixed down.  There is much work still to do, but at least I can now run trains.  Here's where it's up to now:

That's impressive work. Many "mainstream" modellers may disagree with me (and I have no problem with that) but, for me, the banks of switches and push-buttons in your photographs seem more appropriate for controlling a traditional steam railway, even in model form, than a touch screen or other electronic wizardry. Now I hope I'm no Luddite, and indeed have wired my scale model railway for both analogue and digital (NCE) control, but I find that pulling switches to "set the road" and pull the signals to "off", with accompanying electromagnetic clanking, is more satisfying and even more "railway-like" for a model set in an era up to the 1970s or 80s.  Working a bank of D1, D2 and D3 switches is also part of that Hornby Dublo nostalgia rush which includes motor noise, rattling tinplate, and the smells of ozone and hot shellac. 

Very stylish postal vehicle Ray.  The six-coupled chassis in the background is interesting too!

Mike

Thank you David, and Jim for the search.  I've found the supplier referred to by David and suspect that, yet again, as soon as one project is completed at least one more joins the queue!

Mike 

On 20/11/2019 at 15:51, Wolseley said:

 

Which was what I did too to get mine:

 

 

That's excellent work. I recall reading somewhere that there was a "conversion kit" for the "Canadian Pacific Duchess" available.  Can you recall the supplier?

Mike

Ray, I think this was the video you posted on October 30.  I liked it then and still do!

Cheers

Mike

Very nice work as always Ray. And the quality of running is always flawless.

I may have said in a previous post that I have two railway modelling interests: 00 "finescale" (Western Division of the LMS circa 1940); and Hornby Dublo.

For my "scale" kitbuilds and conversions I use mainly PC/HRMS Pressfix and Methfix transfers and, occasionally, Fox waterslide.

With Hornby Dublo I'm trying either to restore battered models to near-original condition, or produce plausible might-have-beens. So to replicate the "look" of Binns Road products* I'll use Dennis Williams' transfers, which are close to the dimensions of the over-scale varnish-fix transfers used by Meccano Ltd. (In fact, I think they are more expensive than the more accurate transfers available!) I suppose our choices depend on both personal preferences for application (waterslide/methfix/pressfix) and the end result we're trying to achieve,

Mike 

* I mean "replicate" without the careless transfer application and poor quality control seen on so-called "Friday" models from Binns Road.

I have made little progress on modifying an A4 to the pre-war, fully valenced version.  One of the reasons is that the chassis on which the conversion is to be based has only con-rod and coupling rod, and no other valve gear.  I decided to try to squeeze full valve gear under the valence (for which I have made a template in plasticard before cutting ten thou. brass sheet). I reduced the projection of the valve gear mounting post by abour 0.5mm each side and bought a non-running "Silver King" from Hattons as a donor for the valve gear as well as for the front bogie which is missing from the chassis I'm using,

When the "Silver King" arrived, I put some voltage across the motor terminals and she sprang - well, lurched really - into sporadic life.  A thorough clean, (including armature slots and the brush holders), armature end-float adjustment, and lubrication, and off she went along the test track, pulling less than half an amp.  So, unwilling to "chop" a functioning locomotive, I put it aside and ordered another dead one from Hattons, this time a "Sir Nigel" .  Same story!  (This has happened at least four times.) So I've ended up with a part finished fully-valenced A4 project and two well-performing and complete Dublo A4s. 

So, a re-think!  I decided to put the full valence conversion on hold and refurbish and repaint the two new arrivals, and ordered some etched plates from Modelmaster for them. But I had, also on hold, a refresh job on a "Duchess of Montrose"  which I'd picked up for small money and which needed some attention. Time to get organised!  So the Duchess is now refurbished and renamed.  The two A4s are also complete, but for their plates, and smelling of fresh varnish.

I will post pictures of the A4s when their plates are fitted.  In the meantime, to show I've not been idle, here is "Duchess of Buccleuch".  The work involved:

• patch painting a couple of areas on the locomotive body
• sanding and respraying the smoke deflectors which had rust spots
• repainting the cab roof
• repainting the cylinders and applying lining (Dublo Surgeon methfix)
• re-painting the orange line on the footplate edge
• painting out the cab numbers and renumbering (Modelmaster waterslide)
• nameplate.  (Modelmaster Dublo Heritage)
• full repaint of the tender which had scratches where rust had taken hold
• tender lining (Dublo Surgeon methfix) and BR crest (PC/HRMS pressfix)
• locomotive and tender sprayed with polyurethane satin
• new handrail (1mm stainess steel wire) and split pins (Modelfixings 1.2mm)

There is some reflection from the carrier film of the Dublo-style power class number, which I've not noticed before; I need to seat properly the right-hand smoke deflector; and she still needs a front coupling hook.

Many posts ago I said that these conversions and refurbishments could get addictive.  Help line anyone?

8 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

 

Could the difference be the earlier thinner crank pins not requiring quite so much space? I seem to recall having the same problem myself.

I think that may be part of the answer David.  As I type this I have in front of me five Dublo A4s - two horseshoe motor "Sir Nigel Gresleys" and three "Silver Kings"  Two of the "Silver Kings" are earlier models with small crankpins;  all three have the body shell with "EDL 11" cast into the cab roof ceiling.  The "Gresley" body mouldings have smooth cab roof ceilings, 

Putting the dial calipers across the running plate of each of the engines, above the position of the expansion links, shows that the body widths vary.  The earlier "Gresley" body mouldings are about 1 mm wider, on average, at this point than the later EDL 11 versions.  Not a statistically significant sample I accept.

Also, on looking at each of the engines from underneath (the same view as my photo on the previous page) it looks as if the valve gear fits  (just) within the "foot print" of the running plate on the two "Gresleys", clearly exceeds the body width on the large crankpin  "Silver King", and is a close call on the two small crankpin "Silver Kings". 

So one answer seems to be to look carefully at your body/chassis combination when contemplating fitting valences.  Hornby Dublo A4 bodies and chassis can vary and, with the right combination, the full valve gear can be retained.

Mike

Thank you for the speedy response Ray. I think now I can see the way you did things and, if I'm to do another one, know how I can save myself some grief extra work.

Well done with the switches. As you say, it's remarkable what's still out there.  I suppose though, as the boxes are now 60 years old, they won't have that distinctive, Hornby Dublo, "new" smell that I can still recall on Christmas morning when I opened my stocking and found a boxed point or some tin-plate wagons and, one memorable year,, an 0-6-2T  to go with my Duchess.  The older I get the more I realise what a financial sacrifice these items meant for my parents.

I've bought a few items from JW. Found him good to deal with and the items he sells are accurately described and, in particular, advertised with plenty of clear photos.

Thanks again

Mike

Ray, a question if I may.  When you added the valence, did you leave the Hornby Dublo flat "cylinder covers" in place and epoxy the valence to them, or did you cut them away before fitting the valence?

Mike

It was your fine model of 2511 which got me started down this path Ray,  However, unlike you, I couldn't manage to squeeze the valve gear under a valence, even if the valence were made of shim brass. The attached photo of another, unmodified Hornby Dublo A4 illustrates the constraints I ran into.

Orange arrows.  The fouling points were the top pivots for the combination lever and the expansion link. (In fact, on the "Silver King" in the photo the whole expansion link projects beyond the body casting on one side.)  Filing down the heads of the securing pins didn't give enough clearance.  I suspect that the return crank on the centre driver would also foul the valence, though I didn't get far enough to test the clearance.

Green arrows.  My solution was to remove the valve gear entirely and file back the four posts (arrows) which form part of the chassis casting and to which the valve gear is pinned.  This gave me a millimetre or so extra clearance each side.

Blue arrows.  But that caused further problems.  Pulling the valve gear as a whole closer to the driving wheels by filing back the fixing posts caused the eccentric rod to foul the heavily cranked connecting rod.  My solution was to move the unprototypical kink in the con rod further forward. 

Mauve circle. Moving the valve gear inwards on the fixing posts also risks reducing the clearance between the back of the crosshead  and the front driving wheels.

You may recall that in an earlier post I said that the A4 I'm modifying is a battered example with some of the valve gear missing. So I'm not only  in the middle of  a sequence of adjustments, but I'm also remaking some valve gear parts.  I'll let you know in a week or so how it all turns out.

Mike

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The pre-war valenced A4 lacks valve gear and the connecting rod just slides in a slot. I don't think there is any room for anything more accurate.

Thank you David.  I'm having just one shot at incorporating full valve gear (or at least that part of the valve gear which Hornby Dublo incorporated in their post-war A4s) in my conversion.  That means quite a bit of work bringing the valve gear closer to the driving wheels on each side to fit under the valences.  Hornby Dublo clearances are very generous so there should be room - just!  The heavily and unprototypically cranked connecting rod may need changing in profile, but I'll let readers know how I get on in a week or so.  Ray (Sagaguy) managed to pull it off on page 27 of this thread.

Mike

22 minutes ago, Bill Matters said:

Did you mean 0.3 Amps?

Indeed I did Bill.  My post is amended accordingly.

What's a bloke to do? I'm in the process of turning a battered collection of unmatched Hornby Dublo A4 parts  into a full-valenced, double chimney, "Peregrine" in pre-war blue.  The donor locomotive chassis is a well-worn "Silver King" version, with some of the valve gear missing, no bogie or pony truck (I know that should be a Cartazzi axle box but I'll stick with popular terminology), but with a strong motor,  For under 40 pounds  landed in NZ I sourced a non-running "Silver King" and tender from Hattons, my intention being to to use it as a donor for this project, stripping it of useable parts, especially the front bogie and trailing axle, The engine arrived today.  When I opened the box I found a pristine,  gloss painted locomotive with the armature and driving wheels locked solid.  

I loosened the armature lock-nut, cleaned all the axles with isopropyl alcohol. gently worked the driving axle until movement returned, including vertical movement of the armature, lightly lubed all the axles and bearing surfaces, carefully cleaned the armature slots (which looked pretty clean anyway) and applied power.  It runs like the proverbial sewing machine, pulling just 0.3 amps with no load.  That's bad news!  I can't bring myself to cannabalise what is probably the best  A4 in my Dublo stud.  So I have to find another donor.

You can see in the photos how little use she has had.  The nickel plating on the valve gear is as shiny as the day it left Binns Road, the pick-up "spoons" are only lightly worn, and the tender underside looks brand new.  The plated wheel fixings in the trailing truck are bright and clean, Though the model  has sat unused for years, it must have been stored in a dry place, as there isn't a spot of rust anywhere, including on the tender coupling, a favourite host to the deadly oxide. The only problem is the almost inevitable distortion of the plastic/acetate tender coal load.

So now I have to find another donor locomotive, and probably change the name and number of my next best "Silver King" as this latest purchase is taken into "capital stock" .  Ah, the First World problems we face!

Mike

Paddy, I  agree with you about the fine layouts pictured above. They don't make any easier a decision I'm facing in making a running track for my own Dublo collection.

Until the advent of the Hornby Dublo 2 rail system, during the 1950s the quality and prototype fidelity of HD locomotives and rolling stock surpassed that of the pre-war designed tinplate track. The 2-6-4T, Castle, 8F , the diesels (perhaps not the Co Co), and the SD stock (even though the coaches were short of a length) really needed more realistic track and larger, sweeping curves to show them to full advantage.

Garry (Golden Fleece 30), who has now moved on to Triang TT, demonstrated this in his 3-rail layout which used ballasted, plastic-sleepered Hornby and Peco track, with a third rail added, and featured Hornby Dublo locomotives and stock, (both modified and in original condition), Exley coaches and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzUuFUyZFec

Though perhaps not for the Hornby Dublo collector or  "purist", to my mind his layout showed just how good Hornby Dublo models were for their time. I  am planning a portable/demountable layout to run my Dublo collection, something about 4 metres long and 1.5 wide, with a scenic front section and storage sidings at the rear.  (Think of a poor man's Stoke Summit! ) The front will be a double track main line with a passing loop.  Tight curves at each end can be concealed by the usual modellers' conventions - tunnels, road bridges and the like,  The storage roads can be Hornby Dublo track but I'm considering plastic sleepered Code 100 track and Peco Insulfrog turnouts, with third rail added, for the scenic section.  Has anyone else gone down this route or done something similar?  I'd be interested to hear from them.

Mike 

3 hours ago, 45568 said:

Hi Mike,

              Without wishing to p*ss on your chips, I feel obliged to point out that 34007 'Wadebridge' was never rebuilt.

 Sorry!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I find that most unreasonable of British Railways!  Ah well, it's only a toy train and it looks good to me.

Cheers

Mike

Prompted by the kind comments about "Sparrow Hawk" above, I did indeed pull out the Wrenn "Barnstaple" and gave it a serious looking at. I had everything on hand that I needed to effect the 3-rail conversion and, as the weather meant I couldn't mow the lawns, I started the project.  Fitting a standard Dublo 3-rail collector to Dublo/Wrenn 2-rail West Country Pacifics is straightforward.  It's fully described on my "Padstow" conversion post on page 26 (with follow up on page 29) so I won't repeat it here.  In summary, the work to reach the stage depicted in the images below included:

1. Removing the 2-rail wiper pick ups and fitting a Dublo 3-rail collector.  This was a reproduction item bought for this project some time ago and required some fettling to assemble neatly, and for the spring to bear evenly and with satisfactory pressure on the two collector spoons.

2. Removing the motor back bearing plate (with all wiring in place), turning the ringfield magnet top to bottom, (so the engine will run "right direction" as a three rail locomotive), lubricating the bearing and reassembling.  If you try this, don't lose the tiny ball which acts as a thrust bearing on the top end of the motor shaft.

3. Removing a scale screw coupling, fitted by a previous owner, from the front buffer beam and installing a reproduction Dublo item. I noticed after I took the photos that, when posing the engines, I knocked it into a horizontal position.  It now hangs as it should.

4. Painting out the locomotive number on each side of the cab with my precious, diminishing supply of Humbrol BR locomotive green.

5. Renumbering as 34007 with Modelmaster waterslide decals.

6. Removing the original nameplates and attaching, over the Barnstaple name and crest, the Modelmaster "Wadebridge" nameplate and shield. (These really lift the locomotive's "presence".)

7. Sealing the decals and nameplates with satin polyurethane varnish.

8. The centre wheels on the tender were missing, so I found a pair which were a close match for the two pairs on the tender, turned off the flanges, painted the tyres black, and fitted them,

9. As with "Padstow", I drilled the insulating bush on the front and rear insulated drivers and forced the end of a brass split pin into the hole.  This breaks the insulation and makes "Wadebridge" a "proper" 3-rail engine. A dab of Humbrol 85 conceals the brass pin, though you might be able to make it out at the "5 minutes to 12 o'clock" position on the rear driver, especially if you enlarge the second photo. 

10.  "Wadebridge" still carries a tension lock coupling on the tender. I've not decided whether to replace it with a Dublo version or leave it in place so she can haul Triang/ Hornby coaches on occasion.

And here she is, after a couple of longish sessions on the workbench,  with her sister from further down the Camel Estuary.  I'm pleased with them both and, on my short test track, they both run very well.

Although I've been following this thread with interest, I haven't done much Dublo refurbishment, restoration or repainting since my conversion of the two-rail "Barnstaple" into a three-rail "Padstow" back on page 29.

However, over the last two weeks I've got cracking and completed the repaint of a "Silver King" into 60018 as it might have appeared in early 1948 after its new BR identity had been applied to its LNE paint job.  The engine was a play-worn, non-running item bought for small money from, if I recall, Hattons. The tender was bought separately.  It probably came off a two-rail A4 as the tender wheels are insulated - one side metal wheels, the other side plastic. The locomotive was simply seized solid with dried-out lubricant which had turned into something like concrete.  After liberal applications of WD40 and penetrating oil (keeping any aggressive solvents off the armature) I freed it up and, after a new lube and an armature adjustment, it simply purrs along.

I was originally going to rebuild it as a pre-war engine with valences but took the simpler option this time (I have another A4 in stock for the pre-war conversion). Hence  the absence of smokebox number plate which I ground off before the change of plan.

The blue paint I mixed myself from Humbrol enamels.  I can dig out the numbers if anyone is interested. The decals and nameplates are Modelmaster.  I was in two minds about the size of the tender lettering.  The smaller size might have been more accurate but, on a plain blue tender, looked "lost" when I offered up the transfer on its backing paper to get a sense of how it would appear when applied. The nameplates had BR black backgrounds which I stripped off by dipping them into paint-stripper.  When they were thoroughly clean and dry I resprayed them red and raised the letters and border by lightly polishing them with a very fine abrasive pad on a flat surface.

The "parabolic" red/white lining along the edge of the black smokebox paint defeated me, as it did the skilled, female, detail painters in Binns Road, so I left it off.  Not seen in the photos are the Dublo Surgeon silver "Hornby" label transfers which I added to the rear of the locomotive cab and underside of the tender - not to deceive anyone but to acknowledge the origin of the model. I looked at a couple of colour photos of A4s in their post-war blue livery.  In at least one case the tyres of the driving and pony wheels were painted red as well as the spokes and rims.  I initially followed that example but it looked all wrong so I scraped the wheel sides clean again.

The original rusty handrail wire was replaced with 0.8mm stainless steel wire, held on with 0.8mm split pins.  It is finer than the original but doesn't look out of place.  I always struggle to bend the tails of the split pins flush against the inside of the body.  I'd like to see the tool that was used in the Meccano factory.

The original tender top was badly warped. I fitted a replacement sourced from the internet after Sagaguy spotted their availability again (top of page 28 of this thread). I suspect that they are slightly narrower than the originals but I'm happy with them. The light has created a shadow which makes the join between tender body and top more visible in the photos than it is in reality.

"Sparrow Hawk" is photographed posed on a length of Dublo track on my under-construction "scale" layout.  It is hauling a rake of  Hornby Margate/Railroad Gresley coaches, which have been repainted (and in one case "cut and shut" into an articulated sleeper as in this thread

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75178-reproducing-varnished-teak-improving-latest-Hornby-thompsons/page/6/

towards the bottom of page 6.

I notice that I haven't cleaned the buffer heads of blue paint, and the whistle needs some attention as well. And I need to paint the cabside works plate "brass". Back to the workbench for another half hour.

Now, where did I put that Wrenn West Country which will become a three-rail "Wadebridge"?

22 hours ago, mozzer models said:

heres one i am working on at the moment

That's a very tidy job Mozzer and the teak effect looks spot-on (to my unpracticed eye anyway).  I like the way that you've painted the lookout ducket the same colour as the solebars, I assume because on the original the ducket is pressed steel and, like the solebars, painted in a teak enamel rather than grained? A nice detail.

Mike

6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

.....have always wondered if a pair of old Hornby sleepers would make a convincing Twin Sleeper First.

I think they would Shaun.  I cut mine back to behind the dome ends of the roofs at the articulated ends of the coaches.  As a result, I lost a pair of sleeping compartments and the shorter-than-scale-length coaches  ended up even shorter.  I was OK with that as they were intended to run in a rake of repainted Margate/Railroad teaks in a "toy" rather than "scale" setting, and seemed to look fine in that context. .  The picture below, taken before primer and finish sanding might give you an idea of where I cut and shut.

 Were I doing another pair to run in a more "scale" setting I would probably not shorten (or otherwise mutilate) the coach apart from cutting off and making flush the bow ends over the articulated bogie.  I would cut the roof back to behind the dome and either make a new section of continuous, parallel roof or, more probably, take a piece from a sacrificial coach.  I suspect the underframe trussing would need shifting. With South Eastern flush glazing they would be very passable, in my view at least; not for the LNE purist but perhaps for "the average modeller" of the old Railway Modeller magazine strap line.

Mike
 

16 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Most worthy of note is how very shinny it is. Looks great on the real thing but I doubt any of us would like it on our models! 

I fully agree Shaun.  On the other hand, the modelling world seems to have developed a convention that flat finish is "proper"  for coaching stock.  Even in the peak depression years of the 1930s when shed and ancillary staff numbers were cut back by the railway companies, steel bodied coaches  - certainly on main line services - still had regular washes and reflected the sunlight in photos taken at the time. As I may have said at some stage in this thread, I'm an LMS modeller and finish my coaches in an approximate 50:50  gloss:satin varnish mix.  And when I put a Hornby LMS coach into service, before weathering the roof and underframe, and giving the body a very light dusting of road grime, I buff the body with extra-fine cutting compound to give it that slight sheen. To my eyes anyway, it looks more realistic.

I don't know much about LNE and GN teak coaches but, in doing some research before trying Mike Trice's teak method, I looked at the colour photos on this page of Steve Banks' well-known website.

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/133-teak-coaches

Even allowing for variations in colour rendition in these early transparencies, what struck me was how dark many of the panels became in service as the varnish reacted with the sulphurous, acidic atmosphere of the time.  Also, of note is the variation in shade between panels - in some cases almost a checkerboard effect.  That would be almost impossible to reproduce convincingly in 4mm scale - certainly for me.  (That said, Sylvian Tennant has an an excellent, similar finish on two of his coaches in an earlier post.) The Gauge 1 boys might be able to do it more readily..

Finally, a recent model.  I'm putting together a rake of coaches for a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, using the Margate/Railroad short Gresleys as a basis.  The intention is that they be hauled by a repainted A4 in post-war condition.  Think more modern equivalent of the pre-war and immediate post-war Dublo tinplate teak coaches. The articulated sleeper is not a model of any prototype but to me looks the part.  Again, I've used Mike's method  to approximate a teak finish, this time with no weathering and a semigloss finish.

Mike

Thank you for the tip Shaun. Those sort of touches, collectively, make a real difference.

It's interesting that the teak finish on the prototype coach in your photo looks rather closer to the oft-criticised "Ikea" effect of some of the Hornby offerings than my attempt at "improving" the finish on my Hornby full brake! Ah well. such is life!

Mike

Thank you all for the endorsement and support.  It is very encouraging and, as a result, I am now looking with intent at the Kirk non-gangwayed full brake which was an impulse buy about 15 years or more ago.

Mike