wellseasoned

Thank you David71 for your link to chris Higgs posts and pics on roofs.

I have a couple of kits with plastic vents that would need drilling for and fixing, something that by the sound of it several dread. I have yet to find out!

The 3D printed roofs with vents incorporated sound as though they could be very popular.

It appears that slowly more people are becoming adept at 3D printing, and there's a chap on the N gauge forum who is pretty close to producing a County 10xx body and tender.

I have been a NGS member for several years, but of late I have become disenchanted with some of the decisions from the top. I have been spitting blood over the Modelmaster debacle, and I am not alone here. The 2mm association seems more in keeping with my modelling direction, so I will quite likely join this in preferance to  renewing the NGS subscription.

 

Yes, the Comet instructions are invaluable. The owner of Comet Models died a year or so ago and the range changed hands, so I took the precaution of downloading the instruments for every coach in the range that I might conceivably make. 

 

 

Roofs are a difficult one. I've got quite a few Masterclass Models resin roofs that will hopefully keep me going for a while. If I run out or need something else, the most practical option looks to be experimenting with 3d printing. Chris Higgs has posted some results of his experiments, which look really good: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126806-going-to-the-agm/&do=findComment&comment=2936986 But designing a roof for printing will be quite a bit of work. Etched Pixels have various roof profiles, but I couldn't comment on how accurate or not they are.

I have come across a source of valuable information on many of the LMS/ B.R. built coaches.  The Comet models website (now Wizard models) has some great stuff on it, dealing individually with each of the diagrams they produce.  

It has line drawings and each has a view of the roof showing the position of vents etc.

Some of you are doubtless already aware of this website, but for those of you that aren't I hope you also find it useful.

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I'm currently pondering over coach roofs, having bought just etched sides and made my own chassis.

Playing around with what I have to hand the old Farish (Poole) MK1 roofs fit nicely and could be modified/adapted. Sadly I cannot find a source of these roofs from the normal sources such as B.R. lines/Peters spares.

I have several of the Mike Howard roofs but these are made of a very soft plastic that doesn't take too well to cutting and sanding.

I have tried bending some 0.7mm aluminium around a former of required diameter but not succesfully.

I'm beginning to think about looking for some plastic or thin metal tube that could be used, maybe even some resin casting.  Have any of you guys been down this road?

The two obvious suppliers are Model Masters (http://www.modelmasters.co.uk/) and Fox Transfers (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/).

 

Model Masters decals used to be available from the N Gauge Society, and did both lining and some very useful sheets of BR-era numbers for pre-nationalisation stock. I believe that these transfers are now available directly from them, though I haven't had the need to order any myself yet. Fox do both lining and numbers, though their numbers look to be for early BR stock. I've always found that the number I need isn't quite available, so I end up cutting up number decals to get the number I want. It's fiddly but not too hard. I used to use Model Masters lining but have switched to Fox as it's rather finer, although that makes it harder to apply, too.

 

 

Thanks David71, 

 

Modelmaster decals I have purchased in the past through the NGS. A decision was made for Modelmaster to sale and distribute their decals to NGS members. It appears to have been fraught with problems and came in for a lot of flack. Then the owner of many years decided he'd had enough and announced he was going to retire. Soon afterwards he withdrew his announcement, and I'm unsure what the state of play is now. Sales of all N gauge decals were suspended, and AFAIK it remains so. I do know they had some useful coach numbering in the range. I looked at the Fox range last night and it appeared to me to be all MK1 numbers.  Therefore it may well be a case of finding somebody to custom make for me.

Canopy glue. I purchased some following advice given on here.

 

When I looked at it's composition I noted PVA as an ingrediant. Being a woodworker my thought was heck, this is some expensive PVA, but it must surely have other stuff with it. White glues can of course all appear to be the same

 

However, I have used it and have nothing but praise for it. It has a nice viscocity and is a joy to use, drying clear.

 

I have been looking around the net for some current production technique/modern day decals for my crimson and cream Staniers/Porthole stock. Unless I have missed it there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive set of coach numbersets on the market, the M*****M sort of thing. I'm also getting short on my old Ultima pressfix lining...it is so delicate to use and could turn me into Victor Meldrew...lol

 

I've sent an email to Cambridge custom transfers about said decals, as he will consider doing them if nobody else has thus far.

 

As ever, always grateful for advice guys.

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

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Just had a reply from John Isherwood at CTT. 

 

He said his equipment does not allow the printing of such fine lining as required for N/2mm.

Canopy glue. I purchased some following advice given on here.

When I looked at it's composition I noted PVA as an ingrediant. Being a woodworker my thought was heck, this is some expensive PVA, but it must surely have other stuff with it. White glues can of course all appear to be the same

However, I have used it and have nothing but praise for it. It has a nice viscocity and is a joy to use, drying clear.

I have been looking around the net for some current production technique/modern day decals for my crimson and cream Staniers/Porthole stock. Unless I have missed it there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive set of coach numbersets on the market, the M*****M sort of thing. I'm also getting short on my old Ultima pressfix lining...it is so delicate to use and could turn me into Victor Meldrew...lol

I've sent an email to Cambridge custom transfers about said decals, as he will consider doing them if nobody else has thus far.

As ever, always grateful for advice guys.

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall.

Hi guys,

I will be looking to source some buffers for my LMS coaches I'm building.

I'll need quite a few, and wondered if any of you have suggestions based on you past purchases? 

Thanks in advance, Steve.

Glue-wise I use Formula 560 Canopy Glue for many jobs (not just glazing). In terms of gluing dissimilar materials it does a better all-round job than anything else I've tried.

 

Gluing etched sides onto a body shell where the glazing material is structural (e.g. MTK/Fleetline/BHE style) is a tricky ask and I've had plenty of issues in the past with other glues coming undone. One problem may be the difference in thermal expansion rates of the metal and plastic so I think that having a glue that retains some flexibility is a good thing.

 

I have used epoxy and I have no doubt that it provides a stronger bond but the downsides are the faff of mixing, the wait while it sets and the most serious one - I once had it ooze out of the joint after I'd got everything clamped in place and completely ruin an entire side of a BHE kit.

 

I'd still go for 24 hour epoxy where absolute mechanical strength is the main consideration but for glazing I'd say that you need something that is strong enough but also allows you to clean up if any of the stuff strays where you did not intend. With canopy glue you can roll up and lift off any stray bits with a wooden cocktail stick once it has reached the stage of being (for want of a better phrase) tacky goo. I think the instructions suggest cleaning it up with a water dampened implement but I've had more success with the roll up and lift off method.

 

Canopy glue is also ideal for sticking nameplates on - it gives enough time to adjust the position but sets quickly enough that you can do the other side after a pause for a cup of tea or something stronger to calm the nerves.

 

Regards, Andy

 

 

Thank you for this advice Andy.

 

Canopy glue is a new one on me but I will get some fairly soon. 

That's the beauty of this Forum/thread, we can all advise eachother on what we have found works, and it may be an improvement on our own current method/s.

 

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

 

p.s Artic / Russian chill, I've lived down here for 10 years, but never known it as cold as it is at the moment...soft Southerner? lol

Thank you guys.

It just goes to show that we tend to find methods and materials that work best for us, but as the saying goes "there's more than one way to skin a Rabbit"

I have etched sides that are really thin and flimsy, and others that are around three times the thickness. I feel happier using some fairly rigid clear plasticard as glazing. If others use OHP acetate sheet how well does this firm up the sides please?

I have also been using impact adhesive to attach the sides to the glazing. I bought a tube of it in Poundworld. It's noticeably thinner than the market leader making spreading easier. They also had some 5 minute expoxy, virtually the same as Araldite but around a fifth of the cost.

Hi,

Three questions;

1) What do people use for glazing?  I have been using some fairly rigid clear Plasticard between the coach ends, to provide something for the etched sides to adhere to. I have to get the height just right so that it does not impede the fitting of a roof

2) UHU Hart glue. I have read this is a good glue if you can find it. Any views on it please?

3) Has anyone ordered from Etched Pixels since his re-opening?

Thanks guys

Steve

Falmouth

Cornwall

Etched Pixels. On another forum somebody has said that E.P. is open for business from today.

Looking at Alan's website it's showing most items out of stock, but I imagine he needs time to sort out what is what and actually available. As I said previously there will likely be an avalanche of orders from people who have been gagging for the resumption of business. There are items I would like but I can hold off for now.

It was my impression that those Colin Albright Ultima sides were done by Bill Bedford anyway? I have a drawerful of them and the font of the etched text is the same one Bill uses.

 

Ian Rathbone certainly does a mean paint-job.

 

Chris

Ultima stock appears to have done the rounds a bit over the years.

The Porthole sides I have were all in packets with a Solihull address. Was this perhaps Colin Albright?

Probably around 7 years or so back, possibly more, I came across the Ultima stock, en-mass, whilst visiting family and a model shop in my home City of Bristol.

In Bristol there was a chap trading as,IIRC, South Gloucester model warehouse, firstly in Southmead and later in Yate. At the Southmead shop when I visited he had just moved in, and there were numerous large boxes of Ultima stock on the floor. He moved  shop to Yate but sadly experienced a life changing event and the shop was closed.

I cannot recall his name but he was a regular poster on the N gauge forum. I believe the Ultima stock was joinly owned by the Yate chap and Alan Cox for a while, then passing fully to Alan Cox.

Just a little bit of Ultima history as I know it, but maybe there is more?

I'm sure many of us anticipate Alan re-opening Ultima in the not too distant future.

I was reading the new 2mm newsletter last night and by coincidence another supplier cropped up under 'yearbook amendments'. They do a few NPCS vans and it seems like they have been around for a while. I know the Chivers name but I am not familiar with the N scale kits.

 

http://slimrails.co.uk/indexNgauge.html

 

You mentioned published info on 2mm coach building. I'm not sure if you read MRJ, but John Aldrick wrote an article on the subject not too long ago...

 

http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/index.php?o=&s=aldrick&t=authors&g=0&x=21&y=9

 

Regards, Andy

I have part two in MRJ 256, and interesting it is. I must try to get part one. It's a magazine that like all others I buy if it's got something of interest. Overlooked the first part of the article though.

One more source of a (very) few 2mm/N coach kits: Lochgorm Models. Only two coaches, but if you're making LMS portholes, you might be able to justify running old Highland coaches. Definitely unusual, at least!

 

 

That's an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of looking for a table with a curving edge. Everyone seems to have their own way of doing this - provided you get an even curve with no kinks, it's not as scary as is sometimes made out.

Yes, what works for one doesn't always work for another. One suggestion was to use some card underneath the window area, and bend below to get the tumble. I tried it with some trepidation and ended up somehow putting a slight crease in the side.

The Portholes.

Well for half a Century and more I have been interested largely in anything Western region. The final reductions in the NGS shop sell-off had 3 types of Porthole N/S sides available, so I bought a total of 10 pairs. At the price they were on offer it would have been rude not to!  So here I am, trying my hand at building some coaches.

I already had Russell's GWR coaches, and Essery's LMS coaches, so with the Porthole sides interest has grown in the LMS, although they were built in B.R. days.

I am aware of a softback book on making coaches, but I imagine most of it will be about 4mm, using the wealth of what's available in that scale. For those of us who are N gauge builders 4mm would likely be a piece of cake...

To be honest I've been feeling my way, and whilst I have scratchbuilt all of the chassis I have cautiously built just one brake 3rd so far. I have avoided the batch production approach. Drop a clanger involving adhesive/s and they could all be involved.There will be tweaks when building the next brake 3rd. It's not only tumbleholmes that are a learning curve!

For glazing I have been using some clear Plasticard. I fix it from fractionally above the top of windows, down as far as where the tumbleholme starts. It offers rigidity to the sides and is made a snug fit between the ends for fixing.  I could probably get by with some 0.5mm thinner. As I said, a learning curve.

I'd certainly agree that if you want to do kit and/or scratchbuilding then you will find more like minded souls in the 2mm Association and the pages of its magazine. It's fair to say that each has things that the other does not but you can be in both if your budget can support it. I was for a time but I let my NGS membership lapse when the transfer and nameplate supply situation ran into problems a couple of years back... not long after I'd paid my subs IIRC.

 

The philosophy of kitbuilding vs an expanding RTR offering is a whole other topic, but I think it's fair to say that kitbuilding will give you less opportunity for instant gratification but more satisfaction in the long term.

 

Regards, Andy

You make some points that are in line with my current thinking. I have always enjoyed actually creating models, harking back to the days more than 50 years ago when I would make copies of the Airfix buildings from cardboard. I was only around 10 years old but it was good training for later years.

I have become increasingly rancled with the NGS ever since there was a major problem with the members shop. I won't go into details here but NGS members will know what I am referring to. I do not think it was dealt with effectively, and know others who feel the same. The thing that has really gotten to me is the "outsourcing" of society decals back to Modelmaster, their manufacturer. I may well subscribe to both NGS and 2mm in the short term, but as I get more into actual building of rolling stock the 2mm association is looking more attractive for me.

Anyway, back to coaches, and creating tumbleholmes.

I asked for ideas on the N gauge forum and had some intersesting replies. Originally trained as a carpenter I have made several tables over the years. With young children I always put a radius on the corners and edges, top and bottom.

This is how I am creating tumbleholmes;

I place the coachside parralel to the edge of the table, and with the waist area below the windows in line with start of the gently radiused table edge. One hand holds the coachside, with my fingers fanned out to create downward pressure along the sides length. The thumb of my other hand slowly and gently moves along the waist of the coach with slight downward pressure, creating the tumble. Of course the tumbleholme on different coaches can vary as to where it starts. This is working for me.

Thank you for your replies re' etched sides/ the current manufacturers.

I have looked at the 2mm site a few times of late, and to be honest it's looking more attractive for me than the NGS is these days. There is so much more in the way of bits n' pieces to assist builders. Just my view, although I do know a couple of others in W.Cornwall who share roughly similer views as me.

Personally I feel that more will become attracted to making things themselves, as rtr continues to rise and more 3D printed components become available.

Hi,

 

I’ve just checked and barely 4 posts back there is an update.

 

Not sure that posting ‘nothing to add’ helps much so soon after the previous posting.

 

Cheers

Dave

I stand corrected...sorry I missed it.

All of the posts on this thread have been interesting and given me inspiration.

I bought 10 pairs of  Ultima N/S Stanier Porthole sides very cheaply in the NGS shop sale off. I reckon they'd had them for years as the address on the packets is Solihull, W.Midlands.

Also bought some Ultima early B.R. coach lining...this is fun to use and has prompted more than a few little brown words. Getting the hang of it now though.

I've been making my own underframes from plasticard and Plastruct "I" section. Mike Howarth trusses have been used as he's selling off the remnants of his kit parts.

I've gotten the bug a bit for making coaches, although it's early days. I have always been one to actually model as opposed to open the box and plant it on the layout. With prices ever increasing I envisage more people taking to scratchbuilding/semi-scratchbuilding.

Hopefully Etched Pixels will be back trading before too long.

I have to wonder about B.H. Enterprises, they seem to have a lot of etches/kits listed, but I get the feeling Ray having gone through the same loss as Alan has been a bit quiet of late.I never did get a reply to my product enquiry so left it.

Bill Bedford/Mousa models, does he do any N/2mm, or is it all now 4mm?

Worsley works appears the only producer of etches that is currently offering stuff for sale, but please correct me if I'm wrong here.

And lastly, DavidK71, what are your latest projects please?

Glancing through the latest Model Rail mag there is a small news update on DJM products.

Regarding the King it says that the CAD is progressing.

Good to  know, but I'm sure a message on here from Dave Jones, to the very people that have expressed an interest in purchasing a model/s would equate to some good P.R.

There will be a king update released this weekend for Warley, along with class 92, HUO wagons, 74, and 17 and 1 or 9 surprises depending on contracts this week.

 

Cheers

Dave

I'm sure this will be eagerly received Dave.

I'm not sure there is a valid link there! A King hauling TOPS-era coal wagons?

Perhaps I didn't phrase it too well.

My point was meant to be that it has gone very quiet on progress with the King class. Announcing the hopper wagons is of course good news, but it's been a while since any updates on the King. Maybe more will be revealed at Warley.  I just happen to think that some updates on the King would build confidence in people.

Back to the actual subject of this thread, do we have an update in the sales progress of each variant of model Dave?

 

 

Well, it's now 1st November and I'm sure many others who have said they would like a King/s would feel better / more confident for an update. You have just announced a Hopper wagon Dave. It may be that in the absence of updates on their King class people will hold back on the Hopper wagons.  

There has been quite a number of posts on forums re' the curent Humbrol products. Maybe Humbrol have changed their formula?

I came across some of their Authentic railway colours at a boot sale, going for a song. They must be all of 40 years old, yet given a good stir they are fautless. Not impressed with their current day acrylics though.

My daughters partner does a lot of Warhammer, and he said they changed their paint formula...for the worse.

Dullcoat . A couple of years back I used some of this on a loco I hade spent a considerable amount of time lining. The Dullcote melted the Modelmaster decals...sick as a pig I can tell you!   Next time around I sealed the decals with...Humbrol gloss varnish, then Dullcote and no problems.

I like Tamiya acrylics, and their matt varnish has been o.k. so far. I am restoring/repainting a fair number of N gauge S.D. plaster buildings with mainly Tamiya acrylics, so will stick with their matt varnish to seal them.

I have always felt since the King announcement that supporting the crowdfunding could eventually lead to more models from DJM.  Obviously not all will either want or be able to afford any future models, but having another producer of models has to be good for everyone. I'm sure an eventual Mogul would be well received, especially if the King turns out to be a real cracker!

I am of the opinion that of the current two main producers of N steam, one may possibly drop future steam releases in N and concentrate on O gauge. Nothing to back this up, just a hunch on my part.

I eagerley await future updates from Dave, as I'm sure many others will be.

Hi everyone,

 

A quick update on this project.

 

We are very close to giving the green light on this, as although slow, the take up is trickling on, although not to the extent it was, with only single figure orders each week now, which is a shame, but happens.

 

The latest advertising is about to hit the news stands so i hope we get a 'push' from that, and i am sending out press releases again to all the magazines......isn't it amazing how you send out press releases and they have rarely gotten used for this project? One magazine even used space for a project potentially going ahead to announce some that weren't by another manufacturer.

 

Anyway, after the weekend i'll give you all some figures again to show just how close we are, and again invite discussion on progress and thoughts.

 

cheers

Dave

Failure to print details that have been given to magazines in good time is infuriating. I have had this happen a few times over the years with fishkeeping mags, when a club's publicity officer.

With D.J.models it is all the more surprising given your C.V. / background. Can ommisions be put down to slopiness on the part of editorial staff, or is there maybe another reason ?

Personally I feel that the NGS should afford you some greater recognition,when it comes to commisions. I cannot be the only one who has thought this?

I'll leave it there or some may think I'm a conspiracy theoryist...especially if I asked which magazine/s failed to print details.

To be honest, given you latest post D.J. it makes me keener than ever to show my faith and support through my 2 ordered Kings.