62613

1 hour ago, John-Miles said:

There is also the complication that Yorkshire has stolen part of Derbyshire. Really the boundary should be around Beauchief and Fox House should be well within Derbyshire. Give us back our land!

But Greater Manchester pinched part of Yorkshire (Saddleworth) in which there were three loooooooong tunnels, which would have been wholly in the West Riding! Swings and roundabouts!

Soundtrack by Ewan Maccoll and Peggy Seeger; The Song of the Iron Road, with different verses.

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

As I understand  it a flying junction is what the whole project does, namely a grade separated junction that allows trains to cross the GN main line without obstructing it. The new junction here, one of several in the whole project, is what I would call a double or flat junction with as you say two points and a diamond crossing. These went out of fashion in the 70's (I think) mainly due to the maintenance  required on the diamond crossing. Then came single lead junctions that needed 4 points, a crossover, a diverging point then another where the double track began again.  There were several accidents involving them and I think they have gone out of favour again. 

 

Jamie

After Cheadle Hulme Junction was modified for the WCML upgrade, it took the form of a trailing crossover on the Stockport  side, with two leads onto the Macclesfield branch from the up line, so trains coming off there have to travel a short distance down the up line before crossing over to the proper line. I believe it was done to allow the speed limit over the divergence to be raised

Watched a bit of the film Charlotte Gray the other evening; the bit I saw involved sabotaging a French 9F on a single line somewhere in the UK; then yesterday evening they had The Molly Maguires on Freeview, not sure which channel, again involving the sabotage of a train, this time from a Pennsylvania coal mine. I'm not sure what the loco was, but either an 0-4-2 or an 0-6-0, with what looked like "period" wagons.

13 hours ago, The Johnster said:

But I've never seen this instruction, or it referred to, anywhere.  It does seem to hold, though, with the likes of 6-coupled B12s or Saints appearing in lined black livery.  But not Stars, and they were rated 5P; to ever rule there's more exceptions than rule.  5P King Arthurs, same power class as Schools, got lined green.

The B12s were BR class 4P3F in 1955. That doesn't explain the the remaining B17/1s though (those with the 180lb. boilers), which were IIRC green in class 4

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think that for the Duchesses, this was the first time they had been painted red, apart from those that were originally red streamliners. These built unstreamlined were turned out in the final LMS black lined straw livery. For my part, I don't think crimson lake really suits a very large locomotive, with such large areas unrelieved by lining. It may just be what the eye is accustomed to but I think that the larger LMS express passenger engines - 4-6-0s and 4-6-2s - look at their most handsome in green. Though I agree about sinister black streamliners!

 

The LMS had, I think, already stopped painting most 4-4-0s red at the 1928 livery change, with the exception of the compounds. The 2Ps were always lined black. In BR days the Compounds suffered the revenge of Crewe but at least none was ever painted in GWR colours!

IIRC, the LMS painting instruction in 1928 said everything class 5 and below was to be black; only passenger locos of class 5X and higher were to remain in red.

15 hours ago, peanuts said:

maybe to have realistic aspirations the wigan crash was inevitable once the parachute money ran out small provincial team sandwiched between four large premier clubs was never going to be anything more than a yo yo club between L1 & championship on thier gates with out  massive financial backing from a sugar daddy and much as happend with pompey once they get bored and arent getting the return they expected they pass it on to the next smuck untill eventualy some poor sucker gets left holding the empty chalice 

Are you talking about the Portsmouth owner who was convicted of money laundering in his own country? I'll say it again, football clubs are stupendous vehicles for that sort of activity. Brian Clough: "How can you make a million from a football club; start with two million". The two million might be dirty money, but once it's passed through the club's books, the million the owner pays himself is clean.

Look up as well Croydon Athletic and their owner, who was laundering money from an illegal cricket bribery and betting scam through the club.

43 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I was being kind to steam locos, yes. 6% is usually cited as a ready-reckoner.

 

I've never seen 18% cited in connection with Chapelon, usually something like 12 or 13%, similar to Porta, which sort of doesn't make sense, so I need to go and look in very dense books.

Remember that most engines lost a fair amount of unburnt fuel straight up the chimney, due to the blast, especially when working hard. Porta's Gas Producer combustion system was supposed to cut this down, which increases efficiency, surely, just by burning more of the fuel. Then there were the heavily lagged cylinders, and so on.

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Best way to get a good gut feel for the physics of motion is to buy a bike, and ride it a fair bit.

 

You instantly get to appreciate that, starting with a level road and no wind blowing, some effort is needed to accelerate a mass (self and bike: loco and train) up to a given speed, but that once said speed is attained, relatively less effort is needed to maintain it, and that the effort needed to overcome air resistance increases very markedly with speed (especially, if like me, you aren't particularly streamlined!).

 

Start adding in gradients, up and down, then wind, add mass by loading your panniers to maximum etc, and you can literally feel the physics.

 

Efficiency-wise, a person on a bike is probably about twice as energy efficient as a steam loco (food/fuel energy converted to work), somewhere around 20% for a person, 10% for a steam loco.

 

 

10% efficiency is a bit optimistic for a simple expansion steam loco, isn't it? I've seen figures which suggest 5% - 7% max. Dr. Porta reckoned he could up it to 12% with his modifications, I think.

13 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Going back to the original question, the 3 per day direct Sheffield/Pontefract Baghill/York services are currently missing from the timetable, while on the Sheffield-Worksop-Retford axis, the stoppers to Gainsborough Central are not running (the Lincoln Central services are picking up the stops) and the Sats-only Sheffield/Brigg/Cleethorpes are also missing.

I think Northern have been hard hit by staff shortages/training backlogs, and not just in Yorkshire.

That's the reason they are giving for the suspension of the Piccadilly - Rose Hill Marple service, until December.

1 hour ago, SHMD said:

 

Yes indeed, and it is regularly discussed on the Flyer.

I wish them well but I just cant see it happening.

 

There are too many problems (with funding and will) for not much of a return. (IMHO)

The biggest problems, that I can see, are the complete lack of capacity at Victory Station - something the group was completely unaware of - and the lack of demand (but they say at the moment).

 

 

Kev.

I would imagine that the single line sections wouldn't help, either. The line itself won't be closed, surely; it's quite a busy freight route.

SHMD will no doubt be aware of the group who have been trying to get a Stockport - Victoria service via Denton for a few years now; I believe the biggest problem is, as it has it has been since the 2nd generation DMUs arrived, insufficient stock to run a regular service over this route. There was a reduction of the number in the early 1990s

Just now, Gareth Collier said:

Nothing and I never said or implied there was. 

One game away from relegation, the ground sold and £m's in debt we would have been lucky to be able to play non league football the following season. 

 

Ah! Sorry! I can remember going to Kiddy's ground to see our lot (Stalybridge) play lose to Worcester during the first years of their travels after they lost their ground. About the only things that made the afternoon were the shepherds' pie from the food bar (it lived up to its reputation), and the noises coming from the SVR

1 hour ago, Gareth Collier said:

I would like to think Brighton are now run in a very professional way and have been for a number of years since Dick Knight rescued us from the crook that was Bill Archer in the mid 90's.

It does show how if the right people step up a club can be saved from near financial oblivion and non league football (if lucky) and achieve a place in the Premier League. It may look bleak for clubs like Oldham but miracles do happen

What's wrong with non - league football?

17 hours ago, Hobby said:

If they hadn't come in though, what would have happened to the club? Perhaps it would have survived or perhaps it would havegone bust. It's well known that most football clubs in the UK are money pits so without these guys many more would go bust probably including yours. History doesn't matter, money does, all the history in the world won't save a football club if the revenue isn't there. 

 

It may be hard to accept but sometimes there's no alternative but to get some rich guy in to fund the club when the support and sponsorship simply isn't enough. 

There are plenty of spivs out there, though. For instance there was the guy who ran York City, and was going to close the club down, and sell the club for housing (and make a fortune); or the Guy at Doncaster who deliberately ran the club down, to the extent of paying someone to torch the admin building. There are those who put the ground and the club into separate companies; as the owner of the ground, they charge the club an unaffordable rent; when they can't pay, they eject the club, and sell the ground for development. If your owner/chairman is the CEO of a development company, be VERY wary!

Don't even get me started on using football clubs to launder illegal money!

5 hours ago, peanuts said:

if anyone wants to help the bloods    https://www.gofundme.com/f/droylsden-fc?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet

They've been funded by one man for about the last 20 years; Indeed, he took them to the Conference National in the noughties. I think he's found the going, with no income at all too much, hence pulling the plug.

20 hours ago, 4630 said:

This 'Ghosts in the Machine' probably also comes under the category of long forgotten infrastructure.

 

These two images relate to the former Kirkburton branch of the London & North Western Railway, which branched off the route between Huddersfield and Heaton Lodge Junction at Kirkburton Junction located at Deighton.

 

The line, which was originally intended as a through route to Barnsley but was never fully completed, opened to Kirkburton on 7th October 1867.

 

The line closed to passengers on 26th July 1930 and to freight on 5th April 1965, with the track lifted the following year, except for one mile which was retained as a rail connection from Kirkburton Junction to the nearby ICI works.   This remaining section was closed in February 1971.

 

This image shows the Whitacre Street overbridge which crosses the main Trans Pennine route from Leeds to Manchester, with the adjacent smaller overbridge on the right identifying the route of the Kirkburton branch...

 

 

...and here in close up.

 

The images were taken from the platform of the current Deighton station.

 

Further information about the branch, for those who may be interested, is available here which is part of the excellent Lost Railways of West Yorkshire website.

 

 

I'm pretty sure there was a derelict signalbox in that area until at least the late 1980s; labelled "Holliday's Sidings", so serving the other chemical works that was there (not ICI/Astra Zeneca/ Syngenta)

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

 

My twin girls will be back at University (hopefully) next month, Lancaster (in accommodation) & Liverpool (daily by train). At least Northern Rail has gone, the new DMU /EMU's are in service, the new depot at Springs Branch is open, and there should now be no shortage of either trains or trained drivers for the new stock (fingers crossed) which was causing many problems on the Wigan - Liverpool line.

 

Brit15

 

 

The Piccadilly to Marple Rose Hill service via Hyde has been suspended until December - the letter sent out says "Temporarily". The reason cited was that the virus and it effects had resulted in the training programme for the new stock, and that there was a general staff shortage as a result. Let's see what happens!

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That's not came from the government though.

 

It's came from the media, especially non government supporting media such as The Guardian, Independent and BBC. Take it with a huge pinch of salt.

 

The lockdown in parts of the NW and Yorkshire is due to Eid. Otherwise other parts of the NW would have got locked down as well, but we haven't as we haven't got a Muslim community so aren't being included.

 

 

 

Jason

Proof? The start of extra measures was at midnight on the day before. Some of the Muslim faith have misbehaved; but so have other groups.

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Wonderful what groundsmen can do these days. But laying a turf pitch and getting it ready for the new season in such a short timescale will be a real challenge. Could easily end of with a pitch that is far worse to play on than an artificial one.

As happened at Boundary Park! When Oldham won division 2 in 1991, they still had the artificial pitch, of course; but they were banned in the 1st division. By about March of the following season, it was like a dust bowl, with very little grass between the penalty spots.

I still can't believe that Harrogate Town, and likewise Solihull Moors last season, are or were challenging for a place in the EPL!

8 minutes ago, peanuts said:

cambridge city is another one 62613 used to park there whenever we went to watch Oldham at Abbey stadium never a happy hunting ground 

WE only went once!

4 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Harrogate have built a new stand but the away end is appalling with portaloos, although given on going CV29 restrictions whether any fans can watch is questionable. More problematic is they have a plastic pitch which they will have to rip up and turf which I think would be the main problem.

Away end? What's one of them? When I went, as an away supporter, you could migrate, in "Proper" non-league style, and even mingle in the bar, and/or watch the game with the opposing supporters. Conference North, 2003 to about 2012.

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

So they are allowing clubs to do that now, are they? They didn't when Kiddy Harriers won promotion in the 90s and were banned from going up because their ground wasn't up to scratch, despite the fact that the works were being carried out and would be finished early into the season and West Brom having offered use of their ground in the meantime... Grrr!

Years since I've been to 'arrogant, but their ground a few years ago was "upgraded Northern Counties East League" standard; the pitch had a severe slope from one end to the other, with vicious dip to one of the corner flag (that's been upgraded, I believe). Terracing was minimal, the end behind one goal was a paved path with grass behind. Also, IIRC the site is fairly restricted; it should be interesting to see where any extra terracing/ the police control box, etc., would go. Having said all that, the National league do require minimum standards,so they may not need much.

30 minutes ago, jointline said:

I think I was reading somewhere  recently that the original act of P contained a requirement  (or allowed) a spur between the S & D and the GWR at Wincanton/Bruton,   but it was of course never built.  

More's the pity,  it might actually have enabled some more cross country traffic to have been built up  (and would make a great model.......)  

Rule one!

Is it not Brighton?