62613

Didn't the line continue into the drydock? That station hasn't changed, except for the monstrosity on the right in the second or third picture. I was there in autumn 1974.

JVol4 117 - a horsebox between the leading and second coaches? Presumably the leading one was out of use or being moved. It looks to still be in teak livery as well.

Looks more like some form of twin-art with a brake compartment at the leading end. According to Michael Harris, the last teak coaches received general overhauls in 1953, so I suppose it's quite possible for the leading coach to still be in teak finish.

O.K. Andy, I was just going off the title of the photo as put up by Dave!

Are all those at Spalding 'Tulip Specials?'

Can anyone identify the brake van in no. 3304? Judging by the number, it's a pre-group design - with 8 wheels

Trevor Francis?

What's that wagon behind the loco. in no. 2232?

   I'm an Oldham fan for the record roumers on our message boards that the Neville brothers are to invest in you with Phil leaving Everton at the end of the season kinda makes sence but probly more along the lines of the constant scholes to play for us wishfull thinking that goes on here .

Naaah, Scholesy's coming to manage us next season, after the boo-boys have forced Jim out. His son already plays for the juniors.

Re the Conference Premier - those of us at the northernmost tip of Cheshire are wondering who we will be playing next season. Three 'North' clubs - Telford, Barrow, and either Lincoln, Gateshead or County, IMHO, coming down. Gateshead v County this midweek will sort it out; the losers will be relegated.

Think it's been said before, but it's a strange time to sack a manager.

I remember No.3 loolking like that. Several times I saw her on the bridges over Westoe Road on my way to or from Shields Tech.

The workings in nos. 2004/6/8 are specials, surely?

Can't figure that one at March at all.

3rd photo no. 3 in post no. 59: is that not a J17 on the left, rather than a J39? It has a 'large' GE -type tender by the looks of things, it looks the same as the tender attached to the D16 next to it.

Oh yes, very much so. 'conspic' !!!   Could see it from my bedroom window.

 

NHN, got sent to Riversdale to get me away from home in Shields!  I was an engineer cadet though.

Crazy thing, this Alternative Training Scheme! I remember crossing the High Level Bridge on my way to Shields for the first time; there was still a third rail warning sign at the end of the platform at Gateshead East.

Nostalgia alert!  yes, the jungle is yuppie flats now, a Doctor I used to know lived in one.

 

It's only reading this thread that reminds me how complex the railways south of the river were (I'm a South Shields lad) and how complex, they , er aren't any more!

 

There was a great model of Pelaw box on our old SSMRS club layout, but I don't have any photos of it.

 

Michael, that's not Tyne Dock station that ends under the bridge by the river, it's South Shields.  Tyne Dock was two stations along, the first stop out of Shields being 'High Shields' more commonly known as Trinity, due to being next to the church of that name.  This was all on a tightly curving embankment that the NCB line to high staithes ran underneath, weaving from side to side.  All gone now, no trace left hardly.  The Metro leaves the passenger line alignment almost immediately after leaving South Shields, and traverses a very old railway that latterly was NCB owned.  It re-joins between what is now Chichester (pro, Ch eye chester, not Chich chester!) Metro and Tyne Dock station, which is on the original line.  I was born and grew up not far from the huge colliery on the seafront of South Shileds, which is now Crown Point or something housing estate.  I used to listen to the electrics shunting all night....#sigh#

Wasn't the winding tower at Westoe a navigation mark? Just thinking that there couldn't have been many seaside resorts with a coal mine virtually on the seafront (62613, a veteran of Winterbottom Hall 1970-71 and Beach Road 1971/2 , and 1973

The Northumberland Arms, and yes. Was up there about 15 years ago with Monkseaton Rapper, on a morris trip celebrating the tall ships race in Newcastle. Sad to see the Tyne so empty. We ended up on the Saturday night down at the feery landing in North Shields, and I couldn't believe it had changed so much. The best bit about the weekend though, was the expression on the face of the owner of an Indian restaurant in N shields, when 15 fully-equipped morris men entered his premises, asking for a meal.

Micheal,

A thesis could probably be authored on this. Generally speaking if it was a lively.. whey hay… boozy night you were wanting then North of the river.

You would get plenty of folk from south of the river going north to spend there dosh but very few travelling in the opposite direction.

When pub closing was at 10:30 then 11:00 after chucking out time a steady stream of folk would be seen crossing the Swing Bridge south to visit “The Boat”. The two versions of The Boat, Tuxedo Royale and Tuxedo Princess (I think one of them had a spell in Liverpool) were moored on the South Bank as they were not allowed to permanent moorings on the owners’ preferred north quay.

The Boats are long gone but with the advent of The Sage, The Baltic and other Gateshead developments the south side is now far more attractive.

Lord Haw Haw summed up the Newcastle vs. Gateshead debate quite well when in one of his broadcasts he explained how the during the coming night Newcastle would become a maelstrom of death due to the Germans dropping bombs all over the City but he then went on to placate the people of Gateshead, for on them, he said, “the Luftwaffe would drop… … …SOAP!”

Happily the days of JB Priestley deriding Gateshead and the Durham coal owner, The Marquis of Londonderry describing the town as, "the long, dirty lane, leading to Newcastle” are long gone.

When you come North make the time to do a bit of exploring both sides of the river. I think you’ll find yourself pleasantly surprised.

 

Porcy

Who’s more that a little bit biased in this.

 

Ps Further down the river at Shields those from the South would get there own back by reciting the oft quoted phrase, “North Shields is the Sunny Side BUT South Shields… the money side”… You remember that Arthur K?...

Ah, the different closing times in Northumberland and Co. Durham. In South Shields in was on the ferry (when it ran!) and into The Jungle, taking your life in your hands.

The first guy they showed being fined didn't seem to give a toss.

Talking of accents, does anyone in the North-West remember Danny Bergara when he was managing at Stockport County? There was a strange way of speaking.

Yes the glory days of the Premiership are slowly fading and Johnny foreigner is about to take over, been coming a while now.

 

As for that game, it was spoiled by a refereeing incident, and who knows who would have won.  But I don't think the ref' had any option, granted a British ref' would probably have issued a yellow, but he wasn't British. The safety of the players is now paramount, and it will end in the game we know disappearing completely.

 

Rob

If you spent £30 million bringing a player to your club, or youve spent 10 years bringing him through you youth system, and you're paying him £100k a week, you're going to want the ref. protecting your investment. The further you go down, the game becomes more physical.

Just waiting for Bill and his concrete mixer.

 

Hurrah for the Bacup Britannia Nutters.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9899499/Morris-dancers-dance-on-after-winning-health-and-safety-row.html

Everyone to Bacup on Easter Saturday, then! I'll never forget Joe Healey giving our local bobby a right earbashing about this at our do last year. Thing is, GMP haven't started charging yet; it's a 'Lancashire' thing!

I blairites, smokescreeners, whitewashers and protection of 4F bearings associates will now follow

I'm not sure this level of snide remark is very helpful. I have tried to indicate that a lot of the problems with 4F axle boxes was because of changes made by the LMS, and in Midland days and by pregrouping standards performance was not too bad. If there is evidence to the contrary perhaps it should be posted.

I seem to recall the French 4-8-0s of over 4,000 ihp had axleboxes 8.5in dia by 8.8in long ie roughyl 4F size.

I had hoped we could have a mature debate with firm evidence presented on both sides, and thereby arrive at a reasonable understanding of the reasons for the Midland policy.

I spent a lot of my childhood the thickness of a fence away from the Midland mainline, and the sight and sound of 8Fs struggling to get their trains on the move after a signal check caused me to have an interest in the background to the MR policy. It did seem to me at the time that the Garratts, 12 wheels instead of 8, made a much better job of it.

Wasn't the size of the bearings that made them a bad design. From my memories of when I did my seconds ticket, the point of greatest pressure in a bearing is usually at the bottom of the journal, so don't introduce the oil at that spot; introduce it at the top, and it stands more chance of doing its job.properly. The Midland 4fF bearings had the oil inlet at the bottom of the journal, and so proper lubrication was made more difficult. Also, don't scrape the bearing to leave no gap for the oil to enter and form the 'wedge which lifts the shaft clear of the journal.

If the small engine policy was such an efficient way of running a railway why did just about every other major Railway in the country go for progressively larger designs, especially for freight, in the late Victorian/Edwardian period?  Did they perhaps realise that for relatively small additional costs they could get substantially increased trainloads thus making heavily loaded trains cheaper per ton mile?

 

I realise that we are to a large extent batting without figures but I would have thought the direct comparison I have drawn above between two Derby built locos would have been indicative of the fact that larger locos could reduce costs.  And having realised that it would only be a question of producing a decent design capable of exploiting that advantage reliably.

And herein I think can be seen part of the problem of a blinkered management, bit like the SNCF approach in some respects!  A cost per loco mile is a very isolated figure bearing only a vague connection with train and traffic working.  Far more relevant to establish a cost per ton mile although that requires more inputs (and work) to assess.  For instance the GWR very carefully monitored freight train mileage and mileage against loadings (some other Railways did the same).    A cost per loco mile only becomes truly relevant when assessed against the work it achieved over those miles.  Fair enough if the 0-8-0s were moving the same size trains as the 4Fs, not so clever if they were moving larger loads.  For example using the quoted figures above on one stretch of the S&DJtR a 4F was allowed 35 wagons of mineral traffic and a 7F was allowed 45, so for an extra loco cost of 1.63d per mile the train load was c.28% greater but on pure loco costs alone the 4F was cheaper - a potentially very misleading comparison.

 I suppose another advantage of more powerful locos is that the longer trains that you could run would mean that you need less trains for the same loads (I'm talking goods here; after all, it's what gave the railways their profits at the time we are talking about). Ergo, you need fewer locos anyway, and track occupancy is reduced as well.

This is what went on during the grouping period, IMHO. Didn't the LNER start with around 7,900 locos and finish with 6,900, despite acquiring 1500 during its existence?