Methuselah

....and is it just me - or do the sizes of the buffer heads vary too......? 517 here has dimples too......

Then there is the question of 'Wolverhampton Green'...... My Grandfather said Wolvo' engine were 'beer-bottle green' - whatever that meant,  when he was a youngster. I have noted that in period colourised images do tend to agree with that, as they seem to have more of a blue tinge - or is that just me again.....? I hope Dapol take a punt at this, as the later Chrome Yellow wouldn't look right.

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I have often wondered

 

 

They do appear to be apertures, but for why?

 

 

A blanked-off NEM pocket!

 

Although on closer inspection it looks like nothing so much as a a hinged box!

 

 

 

Looks like a tank to me......

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

To add something to Miss Prism's answer, the division in the appeance of the class pre-Great War seems to represent the division in function that arose in the 1900s.

 

As a general rule, if you model a branch with conventional carriage stock, you will have an open cab 517 and it will be lined before WW1. Domes generally do not seem to have started to be painted over until 1906, though many will have lasted a lot longer.

 

However, from 1905, a number of the class were converted for auto-working. These seem to have received cab back sheets (years before the 'green' non-auto-fitted 517s) and be painted lined brown. Later some seem to have been painted lined lake, to match the 1912 carriage livery.

 

As your pictures, delightful, by the way, all show trains of conventional stock, the 517s will be lined green open-cab examples. 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks. As per my reply to Miss Prism, I think I'll be moving my target date for my earliest trains back from around 1912 to 1905, so I can reasonably run the green lined locos with the red frames - which I think will tie-in with my Kernow SRM, which has the first livery - the detailed choc & cream. I have to say that I'm also warming to the carmine livery, and a carmine SRM looks likely now, though I think I'll be giving the brown locos a miss.....

58 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

1. Those locos will be in lined green. The outer faces of the frames will be black. The hanging bars and wheels will be indian red or black, depending on date, and the splasher faces will be indian red or green, depending on date. The usual dividing line for the cessation of indian red is 1905/6.

2. Generally, polished boiler fittings began to disappear mid-WWI.

3. The brown 517s probably started off with brown autocoaches. How long they remained so is anyone's guess.

4. A few 517s were painted crimson lake c 1919, but it didn't last long. (And thus would not have appeared in your era.)

 

 

 

Many thanks. It looks like I'll have to aim for around 1905 then, to keep the red frames etc. Here's 517 itself, I believe this is Worcester.

     One for the experts here ;-

     I'm modelling Woofferton and the Tenbury Branch. As I know that 517's worked the branch, I'm naturally very pleased about Dapol's announcement.

     Attached are some images of what I take to be 517's at Tenbury. I say that advisedly, as the branch also ran Metro's at times, and in distant images, if I can't see the wheels/splashers, I find it hard to discriminate between the two classes - especially given the various variations within the two classes.

     These images from the early 1900's, show the loco's with polished domes and safety-valve covers.

1. Will the locos in the images therefore be lined green with indian red frames and splashers...or did the baremetal features extend into subsequent liveries, and if so, which ones...?
2. When did the GW start paining-over the polished brass etc...?
3. I'm presuming that the brown locos were only those that operated Autocoaches..?? 
4. Were some 517's eventually painted carmine - or have I misunderstood...?

     Any info'/guidance appreciated...😵‍💫

On 29/04/2024 at 13:04, coeurdelyon said:

Hello,

Regarding the 517 to go with our upcoming autocoach in Crimson Lake livery, product 4S-517-001 loco number 539 would be ideal

Thanks for your interest, Cheers

When will the Autocoach in Carmine be available...?

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

That looks suspiciously like a wash house, the washer itself being built into that odd corner. I do like to see models of things that were once very ordinary but now all but extinct.

A very nice job you made of it too.

     Thank you.  Extinct - indeed. One of my earliest memories is of just such a building. Warm, candle-lit, and sat with a 'Play Hour' whilst my mother worked away in the warm gloom with a time-worn stick when she lifted the old wooden lid of the boiler. It was the end of an era - within a short time, the wash-house, and all the street were gone forever - the back-to-backs, the alleyways - along with a way of life and communities. No more women painting the threshold and polishing their brass letter-boxes in the mornings, no more horses with the nose-bag on following the baker, or the loud calls of the rag & bone man.

     There was the whiff of coal as winter set-in, and the smell of the newspaper held across the open hearth to draw a new file - about to self immolate and disappear up the chimney.

     Shops had awnings, and smelled very strongly of whatever they sold - policemen walked in pairs, and so did nuns in a cloud of black & white linen.

     Not for long was the sound of steam trains either, and the clattering and shrieking of endless lines of protesting loose-couples wagons, or the echoes of doors slamming in a station. Never a thought what those bells really meant, ringing-out from the open windows of a signal cabin on a summers day - except that they presaged the appearance of some snorting - and invariably filthy behemoth.

     So many small details of the tail-end of the Victorian world, so ordinary at the time as not to require comment or a second glance. Most people were poor by modern standards....yet, we had a more cohesive society, and 'happier'....? Oddly, - yes.

S.

     Further to my previous post showing Harp Bank Cottage, here is the brick outbuilding that was in the garden. It is visible in many of the old images of the station.

     Again - all credit due to John Woodhall.

     S.

========================================================================================================

2 hours ago, 46256 said:

Wow..I have always loved railways in the garden. As an eleven year old I walked up an access driveway between houses in Watton Lane Water Orton. The driveway became an L shape leading left and right to the back of those houses and their garages and sheds. I looked to my left and at the end of the drive I saw an O gauge 94xx crossing a trestle bridge with a long goods train. I walked up and discovered in that garden a replica of Hatton station. The owners were the Underwood family. They were a family of railway enthusiasts . I was spotted engrossed by the spectacle of their railway. I’m pleased to say rather than tell me to buzz off they invited me into the shed which housed the stock and work bench. I had the pleasure of visiting many times later. 
 

The years passed and in 2014 I had my layout of Water Orton published in the April 2014 edition of BRM. I was contacted via the magazine by David Underwood, who now lives in Vancouver Canada with his wife, also from Water Orton. They were visiting the UK that summer, could they visit and view the layout. They both visited and whilst our wives conversed David and I went to the loft and fifty odd years disappeared ….wonderful. I couldn’t understand though how a family who lived so close to the splendour of the Midland at Water Orton, had photographed it even ,  had adopted the Great Western. The answer, trips to Hatton during the heyday of Castles and Kings. 

 

I couldn’t believe how kind fate had been to grant me this opportunity to show my work to one of the people who nurtured that interest all those years earlier.

 

I think I may have recounted this story earlier in this thread, no matter worth repeating.

 

     Fifty years ago, when I said that OO would be OK outside, as there was nothing to seriously decay with Peco Streamline - I was ridiculed. Now, I find that there are many OO garden railways that have been running successfully for thirty years or more. Perfectly do-able with the right approach. Once my basic indoor set-up is running, I have an extension into the garden planned......🙂

51 minutes ago, 46256 said:

Sincere thanks Hayfield for this info,

 

I have however a comet  264t chassis pack in my spares box, left over from my building garratts some time ago. I think it can be easily adapted.
 

The high level gear box wheels  etc also lie waiting in various packing cases.

 

We are moving in just over a weeks time.

 

My wife has some plans to “ do the garden” …and of course there is the unpacking. John R has kindly suggested I set up my modelling bench asap when we move, thus staying out of her way, and allowing her the necessary space,  whilst she does this essential work.
 

I am just waiting for the right moment,  preferably away from any heavy or sharp objects to suggest this  to her.

 

best wishes Brian

 

....of course Brian, you can have your cake and eat it........🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyGAL9Rv7Pk&t=17s

34 minutes ago, 46256 said:

Another image of Saltley, what atmosphere

Looks like a sharp winters day - a low hazy sun under an atmospheric high. One can almost smell the smoke hanging in the air.

On 18/12/2023 at 14:22, 46256 said:

A photo from the Warwickshire Railways archive. Flatiron and 2F at Saltley. I couldn’t resist the two shots of more modern times at New Street as well 

     Saltley - and Bourneville - both had collections of grubby old LMS engines, some of which, even then, were antiques redolent of Emmet Dunn....! The old New Street - I remember it well. A dark, cavernous grubby maw, the echoing sounds of locos and busy footfall on that footbridge ......it was a main pedestrian route into the city centre and was rammed with people at rush hour. The old northern side was bomb-damaged during the war and the remains torn-down, over which loomed the ugly rear face of the old LNWR Queens Hotel, where my mother used to work. BNS was a dark, dirty Dickensian hole, but not without it's charm for those interested in the locos. I'd still rather have it than the current station, a typical dingy BR nuclear bunker.....!

     Actually, the old LNWR Queens hotel was large - and quite splendid inside. It was the preferred place to stay for all the stars and personalities appearing in - or passing through Brummagem.

I'm not really a serious 'railwayana' collector, but I do have some of this old 'junk'. One recent addition was a Woofferton - Kidderminster double-sided destination board. It's only a weener, as rather than originating off a bogie-coach, it's actually one used on the GWR Diesel Railcars, and would have slotted-into a mount next to the main entrance-door.

See below ;- 

47 minutes ago, 46256 said:

No matter how well you know an area it always throws up things of interest . I thought the line followed the A 456 on the left hand side of the road travelling from the Salway Arms back towards Tenbury . I then noticed the remains of a bridge to my left the other day which showed the line crossed over the road before going back to the other side by Little Hereford. Apologies to those not familiar with the area as I have become recently. This was confirmed by my examining a 1902 OS map. 
  

Brian,

               Heading east from Woofferton, the branch is to the north, your left hand side. It crossed the River Teme, then crossed the road at the Little Hereford level-crossing to the south side of the road. Then about a mile or so on towards Tenbury, after Eastham Court Station, the line re-crossed the road to the north side. That is the single bridge abutment that you probably saw. The road used to run where the lay-by is, to sweep under the bridge in a double-bend, the westerly abutment now having been removed to straighten the road. There are quite a few bridges still extant, that cannot be seen from the main road.

Did you kit-bash the three-car DRC set...?

Cheers,

                 Stephen.

Update 27th March, 2024 ;- Harp Bank Cottage, Tenbury Wells.

     I haven't posted here for a while. There were only two buildings left to model at Tenbury. One was the small Harp Bank Cottage, seen here below, right next to the bridge carrying the GWR branch line under Clee Hill Road. This was cottage was built by the canal company in 1794, which was later taken-over by the railway to build the branch partly upon in the 1860's.      

     This is pictured below, in both 1:1 scale and 4mm. Certainly, in the post-war era, the Tenbury signalman lived in this cottage. This is the only remaining railway-related structure at Tenbury, apart from the road bridge itself, and both may now be on borrowed time.

     This only leaves the small Tenbury West signal cabin to be made for Tenbury. This was removed during the inter-war period when all the signalling at Tenbury was simplified. Since my target date for all the infrastructure is around 1912, it must be included. Only a single photo has been found, but fortunately, there are a number of very similar structures still remaining - for now - on the old H&S.....and long may they remain. This will be the next structure, and the last for Tenbury.

     All credit for these lovely building goes entirely to my friend and other local,  John Woodhall - an absolute maestro. Just the little signal cabin to go, then we are onto Woofferton itself. The scope of the diorama only really covers the railway itself, so hardly any non-railway structures will need to be modelled.

     Progress is still slow, whilst awaiting the erection of the building to house the model railway - then I can go full-throttle on the diorama itself.

10 hours ago, Brassey said:

Hi Stephen

 

The Morris & Holloway wagon is a Slaters pre-lettered kit that I applied matt varnish to before assembly, mainly to protect the lettering.

 

The BLAKE wagons I think were Cambrian kits with raised ends.  According to "The modeller's sketchbook of Private Owner Wagons" Book 1, Blake wagons were 5 plank, red (not oxide) with black corner plates.  I think the varnish has warmed the red up a bit but I quite like it.  The decals I think were Modelmaster which I bought at a show from the guy who used to have Parkside Dundas.  I've found them here of the web but there could be other sources:  https://www.hamodels.net/modelmaster-private-owner-4mm-decals-blake-hereford.html

 

All are on Brassmasters Private Owner wagon underframes.  For anything that's going to spend most of its life static in the yard I think I can justify these underframes for their detail.

Thanks Peter - that's really useful. 🙂

1 hour ago, Brassey said:

I think RMWeb has lost the pics of these wagons so for posterity here's the shot again from the other angle:

 

 

Couplings missing!

What make are these please Peter...?

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

That's the kind of photo that can singlehandedly inspire decades of modelling. 

 

....and a good illustration of the railways general aversion to facing points...especially on fast lines.

Hi Peter,

                    I'm guessing that you've seen this photo - posting in case you haven't. The 'BLAKE' wagons were to be seen in number on the Tenbury Branch. Do you recognise the graphics on the other coal wagons....?

Cheers,

                    Stephen.

3 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi,

my understanding is that the castle had some dimensional inaccuracies but the King was a better model.  The King’s chassis was rather crude but with a replacement chassis from the likes of Comet (or in my own case Malcolm Mitchell) the model is transformed.  

Fulgerex Original:

And with Mitchell Chassis - painted by Ian Rathbone.

Regards,

Frank

Thanks for that Frank. It looks great. Did you re-use the Fulgurex motor and gears etc....?

Cheers,

                    Stephen.

A question to the expert hive mind here ;- Some years ago Fulgurex produced some RTR brass GWR Castles and Kings (& Prairies...?).

Were they any good scale-wise...? What was the mechanism like...? Smooth...? Reliable.....? TIA.

29 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

And being too old to be a rocker, and chained to the sink by marriage preventing chasing the girls doesn't leave you with much now . . . . 

 

The salvation is railway modelling.

 

 

I think the railway modelling should be 'in addition to', rather than instead of......🙂

NB ;- Although I can't really post much here on progress at the moment - until I erect the new building to house the diorama - I do also have a blog which I occasionally add to, which can be accessed via my RMweb Profile here ;-

 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/profile/32202-methuselah/?tab=node_blog_blog , which as well as addressing the build of this diorama - strays into subjects of a more general nature.

     A current blog is starting to look at Tractive Effort ;-

     As all the storage and fiddle will be under the main boards - I have, perforce, to have gradients. That's a huge potential for problems, so I'm trying to quantify what locos are actually able to pull - and what it takes to pull prototypical trains of 'X' configuration. I've only just started on this evaluation of Tractive Effort, and I can see that it's going to bubble away for some time. It's an issue on the level, but if my gradients are not practicable, it could ruin my project - I'm not concerned about anything theoretical - only hard practical results. Thus far, I've only tested a few locos - but the results have been very interesting. When I have found my digital scales - I will add weights too - and expand the tests beyond the few locos tested so far. Go to the blog to discuss if interested.

S.

4 hours ago, big jim said:

same here, Ive been looking out for the remains of an embankment every time I’ve passed by!

 

I only recently discovered the old canal in the area too, from the train there looks to be a junction about 1/2 mile south of wooferton station given the line of the trees and the road is called tunnel lane but I couldn’t see any record of a railway there then I looked on railmaponline’s canal subsection and noticed it was in fact the canal which after closure looks like it became part of the trackbed of the line to tenbury just after the pub/A49 

 

 

http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/canal/images/lostlines.pdf

 

 

     Hi Jim,

                     The canal was never really finished, and only used between Mamble and Leominster. After it became moribund, it was purchased by the railway company, though in fact, only a few short stretched of the original canal alighnment were used for the Tenbury Branch. A lot of the canal structures - both briidges, tunnels and aquaducts - as well as buildings - still exist. There's even a few short stretched with water in after a hundred and sixty-five years or so....

     If you look on You Tube, there are a number of videos about the remnants, and there is also a society based around the old canal.

     Cheers,

                        Stephen.

5 hours ago, 46256 said:

Sincere thanks Stephen

 

I would never have guessed that the railway went under the road! Your old map shows it clearly. I will be in the area a lot in the coming weeks, pending a house move to Tenbury ( I know I never thought it would take this long, but nearly there)

 

best wishes Brian

Thanks Brian,

                            Good Luck - house moves are frustratingly stressful at the best of times....!

Cheers,

                   Stephen.