Harlequin

Found it:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/henllan/

Really nice goods shed:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/henllan/henllan(alsop_c1905)old1.jpg

A while ago I found a little station in Wales that was in a cutting (single line through station with passing loop, can't remember it's name). The goods yard was very cramped with a thin shed whose loading bay was in one end rather than opposite the siding as usual.

The weighbridge and office were on the public road above the station, outside the goods yard gate, conveniently next to the pub!

There's a prototype for everything.

2 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Picture hopefully worth many words .....

 

Nice idea but is there enough room to stand up in the operating well because of the braces up to the roof apex...?

It's as I feared. The roof trusses make a scenic model very difficult, unfortunately.

(As do double-deck baseboards, actually - your view of the lower one is always going to be tightly framed by the upper board and the trusses.)

Can you share a photo of the space, please, so we can understand how the roof slopes and trusses will affect the layout?

11 hours ago, Brian said:

 

I can not agree with these comments!

If you cut the two closure rail link wires you should install some other form of frog polarity switching.

I don't care what S or X says, if the link wires are cut and nothing else is done the rails from the closure rail gaps to the IRJ on the end of of the Vee rails will become electrically dead.  Period! 

 

Do not try and make matters far worse by saying bonding X to Y and adding droppers to W & Z will resolve as this just make the whole process far worse to understand by the novice and act upon! 

What on earth is wrong with the very simple process of cutting the two link wires and adding frog polarity switching by whatever means is chosen. 

IMO your comments are just making matters far more complex and confusing to everyone who may read this article.  Its so simple to do and your / other suggestions make more work than is ever needed!  

The frog will always be switched. No one is suggesting leaving the frog and the V rails unpowered. Suzie’s method just allows someone to choose how the frog is switched after the turnout has been installed, with one of those options being to rely on the point blades in just the same way as the turnout works out of the packet. So there’s no need for an external switch in the simplest case and the turnout does not need to be removed to later change the switching method. But to avoid having to remove the turnout later the links must be cut before installation.

It’s simple and very clever - no more difficult to do than the usual recommended best practice for modifying electrofrog turnouts. I wish I had done it on my little test layout.

Dave gets it.

20 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

You don't need to cut the wires underneath in order to switch the frog (which means you can install the switching at a later stage if needed) but as mentioned best practice is to do it all from the outset.

11 hours ago, Brian said:

Hi,

Whatever you do do not cut the closure rails gap underneath the rails linking wires unless you have some form of frog polarity switching in use.  Failure to ensure this and you will have a dead section from the gap in the closure rails to the IRJs on the end of the points Vee rails.

 

This advice is contrary to @Suzie's method and may be confusing in light of the recent conversation.

Suzie says cut the links and bring droppers from the switch rails through the baseboard so that the links can effectively be remade under the baseboards. You can then choose to wire the electrical switching of the frog either the same way as the factory turnout, using the point blades, or using an external switch. And most importantly you can change it without having to rip the turnout up.

And critically, you MUST cut the links under the turnout if you ever intend to switch the frog via an external switch. If the links are still intact when an external switch is installed then the frog will be switched by two different circuits and you may momentarily get a dead short if they don’t move at exactly the same time.

Suzie’s method allows the links to be cut, the turnout to be permanently installed and frog switching method to be changed at a later date without any risk of momentary shorts.

I think the shape of the space is too complicated to make full use of. You'd do better to think about simpler baseboards with more usable proportions. Here are two suggestions (although it's not a good idea to start any layout design from baseboard shapes!)

L shaped terminus to fiddle yard:

Roundy-roundy with the smallest practical width operating well (610mm) but no fiddle yard:

If you are really attempting to have a realistic lever layout you probably shouldn't attempt to control the points in your yard or shed areas from your simulated signal box(es).

You could maybe put those controls on a separate panel, possibly in a different form to clearly distinguish between the "proper" signalling and the model controls.

Rejoice people! Moguls next week! (Possibly.)

They are not lost at sea and we will at last get to play with the various innovations in this promising model.

Something to lighten the gloom!

Something like this:

1354, if you believe Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotives_of_the_Great_Western_Railway

I'm going to cite Moretonhampstead, as usual. I count that as a "small" BLT ("small", as in "simple").

Of course, some (many?) small GWR BLTs did retain their full signalling into BR times and they are more satisfying for the modeller than a single, off-scene fixed distant. (Right, Ryan? )

In that case, you need a Home signal at the toe of the rightmost points, a starting signal where I assume there is a platform (near 525,525) a ground disc (near the Home signal) reading into the run round loop and what I assume to be a goods siding and a ground disc reading out of the loop onto the main line. (That last ground disc would in reality be associated with a trap point, which is not shown on your diagram.)

You may or may not also have a ground disc reading out of the loco release spur onto the run round loop, depending on whether the crossover is operated by a ground frame or from the signal box.

Complicated? Really?

As discussed on many previous occasions the axis of the hinges has to be above the rails and so the flexible wiring under the boards at that point will have to have a fair amount of slack to allow the bridge to open. They won't simply be able to twist.

Simple suggestion with diagrams:

Imagine the two rails crossing the lifting section are fed by red and green power wires. They could be feeding either DC or DCC to locos on the track.

The green rail is simple. You just connect green wires permanently to the rail either side of the bridge and use a flexible loop at the hinge end to feed the rail on the bridge itself:

The red rail has insulating joints either side of the bridge. The power is fed to the bridge by a springy brass contact or by one of the locating slide bolts. Thus the bridge only has power when it is down.

At the hinge end a flexible loop feeds the isolated section of rail from the bridge so that it too only has power when the  bridge is down.

At the other end a second spring contact or sliding bolt takes the power from the red rail on the bridge back to the isolated section of track at that end so it only has power when the bridge is down.

(I have drawn the spring contacts one above the other for clarity but they would really be beside each other.)

When the bridge is open the power feed to the red rail on the bridge is disconnected and the isolated sections of rail either side are also disconnected because they take their power from the bridge:

@greggieboy You've set up two topics asking the same question in two different forums. People are answering each without seeing the other thread. Could you please close one of them?

I've drawn a few totems recently and I can supply artwork in PDF form with whatever name(s) and regional colours you want, if you're interested, Tom.

E.g.

Better put the tools way, there's a rain storm coming.

(Great light quality.)

5 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Hello Phil,

 

I studied your timeline photos very carefully. And, more importantly, I would have followed down your path. However, a chance conversation with my nephew recommended  that I go down the  OSB- Tyvek - batten - cladding route.  Inside, there is 100mm  (95mm ) kKngspan, with fire graded plasterboard.  He (nephew) does this for a living,  so I bowed to his better knowledge.  Also, he pointed out that I'm building out, whereas i would have been building in. But for that, I would have followed your example, but with a suspended floor, and a pitched metal roof. 

 

One departure I made, is your use of Rockwool batts. "Ah, that's what he's done..." However, I obtained some kingspan at a highly advantageous price, so it replaced your choice of insulation.  The tin roof was a given; I would have gone for flat roof, and I've  done those, but the locality dictates a pitched tin roof, under sark.  Like you, my walls are made almost exactly like yours, just changed to suit the local conditions.

 

Cheers,

Ian.  

 

 

Fair enough. I don't understand the significance of building out or in but, fair enough!  (I can see your structure will be more fire-resistant than mine - my shed is more "sheddy" than yours.)

I chose rockwool to avoid using petrochemicals and to avoid creating microplastics when cutting.

Hi AyJay,

Yes, there is a convention (and a lot of details) but the exact layout will depend on the region and period of your layout - the experts will need to know that.

You'd probably get an answer if you moved this post to Permanent Way, Signalling and Infrastructure because that's where all the signalling experts dwell.

If you want to do that, just use the ... menu to Report the first post and ask Andy to move it.

Hi Ian,

If you used the OSB on the inside of the studs it could be both the bracing and the interior wall surface. Saves cladding both sides of the studs - so long as you're willing to put up with raw or painted OSB inside...

Then just tack the membrane to the studs outside, covering the insulation, batten and rain screen.

12 hours ago, ISW said:

After Phils' comments I've made a concerted effort to try and understand how to wire and operate single-slips to come up with a reasonably 'elegant' solution to the mimic panel conundrum.

 

And here it is, or at least my first good stab at it. This is the Leicester Line Junction, where the 2 Leicester Lines diverge off the Down Slow & Down Fast Lines. It provides:

• A crossover from the Down Fast to Down Slow
• Access from the Brewery Sidings to the Down Fast & Down Slow
• Access to the Brewery Sidings to/from the Leicester Lines (there is a trailing crossover just off the top of the diagram) 
• Access to the Brewery Sidings to/from the Up Fast & Up Slow 
• Access to the Brewery Sidings to/from the MPD 
• Access to the Leicester Line from the Down Fast & Down Slow
• Access from the Leicester Line to the Up Fast & Up Slow

 

It seems the whole junction can be reduced to 8 push button operation.

 

Ian

Quick thought:

You have two lights close together on many of the slip turning routes. I think that's because you want to show the states of the two sets of points at either end because they could be different, am I right?

If so, you could simplify the panel by using just one light and making it only light up when state1 AND state2 are set using a simple diode AND gate.

That has pros and cons but it would simplify the board a bit.

Wonderful stuff. Thanks John!

19 minutes ago, ISW said:

Mimic Panel for Single Slips

 

When I built the Lower Levels, this included a pair of double-slips which, in tandem with other turnouts, provided 4 crossovers. Once I had got my head around the fact that you could think of a double-slip as a pair of turnouts installed toe-to-toe, this became easy to wire up as crossovers and produce the necessary mimic panel. You can see more details in posting: 

 

On the Upper Level Baseboards, the Leicester Line Junction includes both double and single slips. This lead me to wonder how to wire and mimic a single slip. Various fiddlings around with a 'crossover' formed of a pair of single slips wasn't getting me anywhere, and my head started to hurt.

 

I eventually realised that a single slip can be represented as a pair of turnouts with the 'straight track' for each turnout forming the diamond. This is easily shown as below:

 

With that little 'challenge' sorted I feel a bit more confident to tackle the wiring and mimic panel for the Leicester Line Junction.

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

Doesn't the inconsistent representation of similar track formations with very different mimic diagrams worry you? (It's making my teeth itch just looking at it!  )

Technically speaking, a train travelling through the double slip from west to east will encounter the facing red points before the trailing orange but the diagram shows something different...

Using the idea you've come up with for the single slip on the double as well would be more correct and more consistent (but would admittedly place a lot of buttons and lights in close proximity).