SD85

The brewery. Now you mention it those Thwaites beers were sold to Marstons. 

On a different note, does Phoenix Brewery still exist? Wonderful beers like Wobbly Bob but almost never found outside of Lancashire in my experience. 

I didn't know Marstons had taken over Lancaster.  I remember that brewery being set up.

What about Jennings? Owned by Marstons I think? Who ever owns them was patient enough to stand by the brewery after major floods and get it open again instead of closing it.

4 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

One example; BR Green diesels look ok on a Steam Shed layout. BR Blue diesels don't.

 Just a note to say this is correct as a general rule, but during my research for my planned layout I've come across a couple of pictures of blue 33s and 73s on Bournemouth shed in 1967 side by side with Bulleids etc.

I should probably mention that in a way I do like being limited to modelling only locomotives that were running in 1967, though. It imposes a bit of discipline into my modelling practice and gives a certain direction to the process. Similar to when I was at university (long ago) and had to come up with a sonnet as a poetry exercise.

This is an interesting topic and I'll offer my own perspectives:

I like to model the Southern Region, having grown up south of the Thames. I also like Bulleid Pacifics (in both original and rebuilt formats). I like locomotives and find them the most interesting thing about railway modelling next to operation. (Scenics, cameos and overall atmosphere interest me too, but it depends on my patience for building them. I find coaches and wagons interesting to a degree but generally they are not a primary focus).

I don't have much confidence in my mechanical skills, but I do like to paint and weather models. In relation to this, I have an interest in decay, dereliction, and the build up of dust and dirt.

So given these considerations, a loco shed layout seemed like the best choice (although operationally wise a shunting layout might be better, but I can't run too many big locos on it). A few years ago, therefore, I decided to start accumulating stock and materials to build one.

Initially the time period was somewhere on the Southern Region in the Salisbury area, 1960-64 ish. I mainly just wanted to model Bulleid Pacifics in their latter day condition, with other classes thrown in. Then the time scale started to narrow down the more I did my research and thought about what I wanted to portray. Firstly the planned layout shifted to the 1964-67 period, then 1965-67. At this point I was still balancing a desire to capture the atmosphere depicted in the books and photographs I was reading with my own personal interests in what Bulleid Pacifics I wanted to renumber and rename (initially I was selecting locos for modelling subjects based on whether they were named after places in the West Country I'd been to on holiday).

Then the balance shifted in favour of providing an accurate portrayal. After a couple of renumberings, I shifted the period to 1966-67. This meant I had to re-renumber some of my locos to ones still running in that period. Then shortly afterwards, I decided to just model 1967 entirely, and only model locomotives still running in that year.

Initially I was modelling just 1967 in general, allowing me to run some of the Bulleid Pacifics in original condition which were withdrawn in the early part of the year, and also locomotives which were still carrying their nameplates and shields. In the last few weeks, however, I've become dissatisfied with even this as being a bit too vague, and have decided to model literally the last to or three months of operations. (This does also save me having to buy etched brass nameplates). I've even considered, though, that this isn't specific enough, and did think about modelling just the last two weeks at one point.

I want my planned layout (I'm very slow at actually starting things - currently just renumbering and weathering/detailing locos) to get the ambience of what a typical day in those last few months of steam looked like. I am fortunate in that there is a plethora of recently published books and photographic material detailing the last days of steam on the Southern Region in incredible detail (recently I purchased a book which pretty much gives all the info down to individual loco working patterns). In addition, colour photography of the railway scene was at a far greater level in 1967 than even ten years previously. Therefore, it is easy to, with time and attention to detail, create a very accurate depiction of a locomotive shed on the Southern Region in 1967.

My point is that thanks to the large amount of information available, I can base my planned layout on the reality in a way that probably would be impossible (or at least much harder to achieve) than if I'd modelled, say, the LSWR in 1914. This is reflected in the standards I have been setting for weathering and detailing the locomotives. At first, I was satisfied with a generic idea of heavy or light weathering, with some reference to prototype photographs. Then in the last year or so I started to pay more attention to the photographs and copy what I saw in them. Now, thanks to the detail of information available, I'm weathering locomotives not only from photographs, but ones of them as they were in 1967, and actually now just ones from how they looked in the last two or three months. Again, I even considered trying to weather all my locomotives as they would have appeared on a certain designated week (thanks to the information now available enabling this to be much more achievable than might have been previously). It does give me personal satisfaction to know that I have depicted a locomotive in the level of cleanliness she was in at a specific point in time.

However in the context of an exhibition (that being the intention for this project) I don't think the average viewer will take such specific details into account, but instead would be focused on the overall ambience. And really, that was what I was going for more than specifics. It might be the case that I have a loco in the condition it was in July 1967 alongside one in the exact condition it was in June 1967, rather than both of them being modelled in the condition they were both in on, say, the first week of May, but the overall effect would be the same - a shed scene that is a rendition of those photographs which I found so rich and full of ambience when I first discovered them.

But is setting such standards for accuracy in my locomotives undermined by the fact that my planned loco shed layout will be an imaginary location? In my opinion, yes, to an extent. If I'm going to be so specific with the locomotives as mentioned above, then I might as well model an actual location (I had been thinking either Guildford or Bournemouth). But there are more logistical problems encountered here. I have the time and space to depict a West Country as she looked on a specific date. I don't necessarily have the time to build Bournemouth shed in 4mm scale, and I certainly don't have the space. Nor do I as yet have the skills that would enable such a project to be completed to a degree of personal satisfaction, in terms of the actual construction and layout. It would take more time to work those skills up to a good standard, and I might get bored and abandon the project through frustration and lack of motivation. Also, as pointed out, if I wanted to go all the way in terms of accuracy, I'd have to go to P4, and I just don't have the interest or the capabilities to rewheel everything and build my own track.... or to get it to work....

And yet, and yet. If I'm going to be vague in the location, why be so specific in my loco modelling? Why not, say, model a loco as she was in 1966, simply because it's more interesting to model her with plates/cleaner/dirtier/etc., and then adapt the situation, and say "well in this reality...."?

I suppose for me it comes down to what I can and can't do and what I do or don't have confidence in. I can hopefully get a satisfactory result with weathering and detailing. But to do the whole picture completely... do I have the time, money or ultimately the interest? Especially when I set out at the start of all this to render an ambience, not rivet count. And also, I do like to create realistic scenes based on prototype practice, not just photocopy an existing tableau.

So currently I've decided to 1) build a small test piece (model a corner of a loco yard or something similar) to work my skills up, and then 2) build the 'proper' layout once I've got more ability and confidence to do so.

With the test piece, I will be able to get the urge to model the ambience of 1967 on the Southern Region out of my system and channelled into tangible results to some extent. It will also fit my current skill levels. By modelling a corner of a yard (I was thinking about the bit round the back of Basingstoke shed, or maybe the turntable roads at Bournemouth) I can narrow down the background to something that will look generic but realistic (long grass, clinker piles, a back wall of a building) and provide a good backdrop for the locos (which I will continue to model to the standards described above).

With the bigger layout, things are still undecided. I'm thinking that an imaginary location probably won't quite cut it, since coming up with a workable and interesting track plan is hard, given my space limitations. And I don't want a generic large shed layout. I suppose I want to depict a depot on the Southern that might have realistically existed. Although as mentioned before, if this involves another reality being followed, why depict my locos to such a specific condition? Why not go further and suppose that more original condition Bulleid Pacifics survived until July 1967, for example? So I'm coming more around to the idea of modelling a real location.

In summary, I guess it's a balance, and one that always has to be judged, and evaluated for pros and cons, and with the consideration of just how far one wants to go and what one's aims are. And the answer will vary between individuals. And finally, the amount of research material for one's subject can influence things to a major degree, and the more material available, the more standards there are to meet.

Hello, I am interested in using washes but I was wanting to know if this effect was possible with them (link below)

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/steam-sr/sr/west-country-bulleid-4-6-2/hA89BD88C#ha89bd88c

I'm currently modelling 34087 and this is the condition I want to weather her. There seems to be an overall 'dusty' effect going on.

I don't have an airbrush so a lot of the time use powders and such like, but was wondering if this effect can be achievable with washes as well?

Thanks

PS Regarding powders, how to fix them? Would artist's fixative do the job?

Interested to see how this develops.

I remember reading about Albion Street in an old BRM from 1997 and always thought it a very atmospheric layout. I was wondering what had happened to it and if its builder was still around. Glad to read this thread.

Thanks for the info. I've read that thread before I think but it's a very inspiring conversion.

One thing I wasn't entirely clear on was how much you wrapped the plastikard round the boiler? Were multiple layers needed?

Thanks

Would it be possible to commission a 3D printing of a large boiler 7F bodyshell?

There is of course the Golden Arrow mould, but it has the wrong smokebox door and from what I can tell the wrong firebox too.

Thanks

^ Yes, that one works well, primarily because it's toned down a lot.

There is a trend nowadays for printed photographic backscenes on quite a few exhibition layouts, but my general observation is that they don't quite seem to work. They are almost too detailed and distract from the rest of the model. Generally on a model the vaguer the background the better it works.

I love your workbench setup Jack, would like something similar myself somepoint.

Regarding weathering, I use powders but they do need fixing. I'm not sure what to use for that TBH, would artists fixative do?

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense as to why they are a bit hard to find for less than £130-180.

Actually, it was Toboldlygo's thread about renumbering and weathering Bulleids on the old RMweb forums that I discovered a while back which inspired me to start looking for WCs/BoBs to rework.

I posted this on the main general discussion forum some time back, but I'll paste it here to see if I can get any further answers to it...

In terms of models retaining value, can anyone explain to me why Hornby Bulleid Light Pacifics don't seem to deprecate much price wise? 

This mainly applies to the rebuilds - the original condition models seem to be a bit cheaper. 

By way of comparison : I can go on Ebay and regularly find Merchant Navy rebuilds for ninety quid or thereabouts. With Light Pacifics, I can get original condition ones for about £95-£130. However with the rebuilds, I'm usually looking at £130 minimum, and sometimes quite a bit more than the present retail price (which is about £170 at the moment).

This also extends to second hand stalls at shows. Even from larger retailers, I can find plenty of the Bachmann and Hornby ranges from the last ten years or so, but rebuilt Light Pacifics seem almost unobtainable in this regard - they never seem to be on the second hand stalls. 

Anyone know why this is? It's a popular model, certainly, but even allowing for this it's odd how few of them filter down to the second hand market, or decrease in price.

I've been trying to get started on things but lots of inertia. On other things as well.

On the subject of 'what if' electric lines, I've been thinking for some time about building a model of the LBSCR system had WW1 never happened, with the overhead network extended down to Brighton and other places. But this would require a lot of scratchbuilding of the electric stock and the catenary systems. 

In terms of models retaining value, can anyone explain to me why Hornby Bulleid Light Pacifics don't seem to deprecate much price wise? 

This mainly applies to the rebuilds - the original condition models seem to be a bit cheaper. 

By way of comparison : I can go on Ebay and regularly find Merchant Navy rebuilds for ninety quid or thereabouts. With Light Pacifics, I can get original condition ones for about £95-£130. However with the rebuilds, I'm usually looking at £130 minimum, and sometimes quite a bit more than the present retail price (which is about £170 at the moment).

This also extends to second hand stalls at shows. Even from larger retailers, I can find plenty of the Bachmann and Hornby ranges from the last ten years or so, but rebuilt Light Pacifics seem almost unobtainable in this regard - they never seem to be on the second hand stalls. 

Anyone know why this is? It's a popular model, certainly, but even allowing for this it's odd how few of them filter down to the second hand market, or decrease in price. 

About speed of running on layouts :

I occasionally help out with an exhibition layout and like to shunt the goods yard. I try to do this with a good deal of slow speed but I have heard that in reality shunting was often a bit faster and rougher than this? Would like to know if I can improve anything. 

This should be cool, I don't model LNER but I do like one offs and prototypes etc so might get this.

Thanks, will check them out.

Hi, 

Looking to convert a Bachmann 9F from the single to double chimney version. I could always get a double chimneyed body and switch them over, but I'd prefer it if I could just replace the chimney on my current loco. 

However I am having trouble finding a suitable replacement casting part. Does anyone know which supplier I need to use for this particular chimney? 

Thanks

Weren't Hornby planning to produce a Z class in the eighties? At least that's what I've heard. 

With regards to 4-4-0s, it always interested me that Triang chose to make the L1 back in the early sixties. Even now that is not an obvious prototype to choose, and in fact if one wishes to run inter war 4-4-0s of SR design one still is reliant on kits or scratch builds. Did Triang choose to model the prototype because the class was often used on Kent Coast services past their HQ? 

Good show today. The Bridge At Remagen was the definite highlight, great to watch.

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but Askrigg Bank is another obvious classic from the late 90s. Shame I never saw it for real before Kendal MRC retired it.

Jamaica Reach (RM 1995, can't recall the month) was another great layout but I can't find out much info on what happened to it. It was made by the North Devon MRC I think (they also made another layout called Cadiford Water?) but this group doesn't appear to be publicly functioning now. Any further info on this layout or the group?

PS - I mentioned this already, but the April 1996 issue of BRM had an O gauge layout called Minima Bay built by someone called Mike Williams who ran a kit company called College Models. Any info on him and/or this layout would be good as I found it pretty inspiring.

Interestingly I spent most of yesterday sorting through and grouping about seven years worth of RMs from the late 90s and I have to echo the sentiments above. 96 & 97 were vintage years indeed and as my first ever RM was the Feb 96 issue I too have much nostalgia for this period. 

I echo the sentiments on College Grove which was superb and a great first effort into the senior scale. Wonder if the builder is still around? 

Engine Wood is also up there as well as Ken Webb's model of Exeter Central, Port St George, Gas Works, Horselunges and Aberhafren. All great layouts. 

From a similar time period I remember a small O scale layout in BRM called Minima Bay which was very inspiring.