wappinghigh

Ok based on the above help (and thanks so much to everyone) I have shelved the idea of buying a new or near knew "working" Bachmann 4MT and am going to vote with my feet and sit it out and wait..

If Bachman won't update it?.. Not my problem! 

Meanwhile I've ordered a realistic weathered one as a scrapyard loco (at the end of the day it's all the model is useful for!!)  from Halden Yard for 25 quid...

Cheers

W

Are there any alternative model makers who have recently released a model of the BR Standard 4MT tank? Thanks

^Agree. Totally. Meanwhile I'd like to play a bit with the Bachmann we have.... can someone answer my question?! 

Can someone answer my question?! Is the entire production run since 2001 swappable? Body's with Chassis? thanks! 

So there were minor developments where there? after the released 2001 tooling?... I know they added an 8pin DCC socket in 2005.. So Can the bodies be swapped on/off  earlier/ later chassis? Say a 2005/6+ body be put on a 2001 chassis? And visa versa ...thanks 

^ entirely why this model should be upgraded.. give me a break! 

Exactly! I'm not saying back in the early 2000, it wasn't awesome..and still is.. but  Come on boys and girls.. this model is decades old.. decades... We don't necessarily want more detail.. just a more modern modelling experience.. how easy would it be to bring it up to 2020 standards? Just make a body that is easier to remove and fit and add a newer decoder and speakers... 

28 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

A new 4MT tank would be welcome though I'm not sure why you'd want to burden it with a 21 pin socket. Rather have the room available for speakers and weight. Not convinced a steam loco really needs more that 8 pin - sound, firebox glow, lights front and back and smoke (if you must see) seems to be the full DCC package possible.

Well sure - don't really care what decoder... but come on Bachmann!!! I mean yr opposition is selling really good tenderless locomotives pre fitted with speakers, easy access to fitting a chip, 5 pole motors, and you expect us (having ripped apart ...literally the body off the chassis, destroying everything in it;s wake)  to hardwire something onto a CAM motor?!  Even the 2005 8 pin version is a shocker to get in there... This is insane.. this tooling is 20 years old!!!... There are dozens of (actual real) existing 4MT tanks out there.. I don't get it! 

This model seems a bit long in the tooth? 

Or have I missed something?.. that the all wheeled pick up, sound fitted (or speakers available in it already) with the 21 pin DCC or Next18 DCC chip with a five pole motor is already out?? 

Any clues how long it will be, before this icon Bachmann is likely for another refresh?

Cheers 

Hornby: "Please be advised that after extensive research and testing, the use of DC Analogue controllers is NOT recommended for use with any HM7000-TXS decoders in Bluetooth®️ Mode." I mean come on! They announced DC controllers could be used (now they can't?) Hornby can't even get that right! So what chance the dongle with be useful and tested properly?! 

^ Fascinating. I had no idea there was such interest in upgrading Black5 models. 😀 Is there social media group or some other link where this is discussed in more detail? Is there a secondary market for these out there?

Cheers. W

^The real locomotive looks a Nice example of a preserved Black5.

2011 tooling? 8 pin DCC. Part of West Coast railways pullman?? 

What will be the specific differences between the 2011 and this new 2023 tooling? 

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

There are bigger fish to fry, than dongles for existing DCC users.

At least initially.

 

The most significant advance and attraction, is the ability to obtain the facilities and functionality of DCC, without the need to purchase expensive hardware.

The control interface is a free app, you can load on to your existing smart devices.

This will be particularly appealing to both existing DC users, who were previously unwilling, or unable to make the jump or investment into DCC ……and to newbies, coming into the hobby, where there should be no impediment to going straight into Bluetooth DCC, rather than languish with a third rate, dated option of crude DC operation.

 

Many existing DCC users will already be heavily invested in traditional/ legacy DCC, both in money and time spent.

While the attractions of cheaper, user downloadable sound and speedier and more intuitive CV adjustment will be a significant draw for many, conversion from existing practice may prove to be a more gradual process.

After all, the dongle is only enabling a different type of throttle to be used on existing systems, some of which can already have similar GUI based throttles added, either through in-house options, or the addition of WiThrottle and Engine Driver.

The extra tricks HM DCC brings to the party are wholly limited to locos fitted with HM7000 decoders, with or without the presence of a dongle.

If Hornby plan to extend the number of third party DCC systems, their dongle(s) work with, all the better.

It’s no big deal in the short term.

 

 

.

Sure. 

If there is no progress on loconet or some way to interface Digitrax/JMRI, I'll switch to some other DCC control like the Lenz LZV100 (once someone here on RMWweb or youtube proves to me it all works). Not a major biggie - swap costs less than a couple bluetooth controllers. Cheers and Thanks for comments and help. 😀 

Your a large commercial company in the Hobby... 

The BOD and management team have been planning the release of a new DCC bluetooth control platform for months.. ...who knows years..?

The development team presents their ideas - which includes the concept of "a dongle" that will interface with "legacy DCC controllers"

Are we to assume there was no discussion (early on) why it would be crucial for the platforms uptake?

That this is suddenly a surprise to Hornby management? 

That management wouldn't have realised this early on and (if they really wanted this to happen) said to the development teams "go make sure it works with other manufactures?"

I mean call me naive.. but I just don't believe that they didn't know this problem very early (and therefore never planned it to work with other manufactures DCC controllers all along! )

Just MO!!! 

^So which is it?

1/ They know all about this already..(which I suspect is true)

or

2/ They had no idea until everyone now realises it (and will rush to bring out new dongles, to rectify the situation)?  

^ Either that (they are so out of touch), or they do realise it (and have no intention of expanding the platform to control other DCC bus protocols ie an entire layout) at all  and  1/ they are so arrogant they think everyone will miraculously ditch their current equipment and move to Hornby control (only) or 2/ all this talk about their bluetooth platform controlling an entire layout is total pie in the sky! (nonsense)

Just MO! 

What is wrong with Hornby (as a commercial organisation)  that the development teams/management, wouldn't have realised this, like years ago already! 

51 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Having additional dongles compatible with other throttle bus protocols would certainly be commercially useful to Hornby.

 

…

These different bus protocols have been around for years..

I 100% agree with your statement - it absolutely would be commercially useful to Hornby...

That is entirely my point! 

So where are these dongles!? 

^Yep.

(Another reason backing up what I have previously posted...)

Has the HM7040 been tested with NCE?

Or Gaugemaster?

If not why not?

Aren't they the two biggest players in DCC control? 

That dongle is the key to the uptake of the entire HM7000 platform...

So I think Hornby has made a major  mistake not making that dongle more "open source"...

It should have been open source and all the connection issues nailed down - either via multi-interface or even wifi (as someone eluded to) ..deals done with other manufacturers (if required) etc ..certainly tested with other manufacturers gear before the launch of the entire platform...

Bluetooth has been around for decades. They have had plenty of time to do all this...

Is what is implied - nobody at Hornby uses JMRI? 

That Hornby doesn't know about devices like the Digikeijs DR5000? 

They couldn't have got one and tested it? Even bought out the IP/tech/company (has it gone bust)?

By not designing, testing prior and launching this dongle properly, it is likely they have missed a huge opportunity to become the dominant platform in Bluetooth layout control 

That is very disappointing - as I am huge fan of Hornby. And in general love their approach and support of the hobby.

And have lots of their models and other equipment.

(Just MO) 

33 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

GIven how new the H&M 7000 setup is, I'm happy to sit out being an 'early adopter' in marketing speak and let the dust settle - a lot of the issues highlighted here will work their way out one way or another over the next year or so

Sure. 

I have a lot of DCC chips I don't want to swap out (they have some really unique sound tracks for example )

But I am also continuing to buy newer models ...lots of them Hornby, without chips (ie DC only) as I can see this move to bluetooth may well be a gamechanger. And I want to wait see how it all unfolds..

But I'm not going to suddenly buy dozens of Hornby DCC bluetooth chips, until they sort these type of issues out..

The longer they take, the more likely chance some other large chip manufacturer in the same space is going to come along and steal their bluetooth layout control.. 

That is one of the points I am making..

They should have nailed this down before the launch, made the dongle (or equivalent interface) more open source - so they had the chance to become a major (or even the major player) in DCC computer (now phone) layout control...

The longer they take to sort these  issues out, the greater the chance it all ends up like Railmaster... something I'd take as a guess ended up with very little market share of "DCC computer control.."

Just MO 

^What's yr point 47?

We all know this, that's not the point of the thread.

Of course nobody is "forcing anybody to do anything" and of course it's well known there are other decoder manufacturers 

BTW railmaster is Hornby's very own legacy system (last I checked) and it was their last attempt to "control the DCC space".

The point of the thread is the HM7040 is not all cracked up to be what they initially implied it was (a dongle to control non bluetooth DCC chips using the app via legacy DCC controllers) and the fact that it is xpressnet (only) was buried in all the marketing hype - which is going to exclude alot of peoples DCC controllers. Particularly people likely to have large layouts and lots of locomotives. The very people who may well be interested in more of a spend upgrading their DCC chips to bluetooth to make things like CV control easier, or control it all (as well) from the Hornby app..

The point of the thread is, can there be a workaround to get it all working with JMRI and loconet, or do I have to ditch my Digitrax system and get some other DCC controller, if I buy a whole lot of HM7000 chips...

Cheers 

7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

 

But why would you need them for the new Hornby version seeing as according to the TV programme they can make every version built including 44767?

 

 

This hobby can get way too serious and what better than to poke a bit of fun at the myriad of different Black5's and the current preserved railways "attempts" at an iconic version. So might lighten up a bit with "Glasgow Highlander"45147  aka  45407 and run it as both - 2 locos in one. I won't be able to do much about the firebox (artistic license required) but needs a dome running (in disguise) currently. Can't afford several model variations of Hornby Black5's right now... Heck with inflation running at 10% who knows what the prices will be in 2025! If I cave in to Hornby and eventually get a second (and who knows when it might become available!) I'll get a 5025 in LMS livery with riveted tender. 😀

I couldn't get access to the illusive Hornby Black5 new tooling "TV programme". Has anybody got a youtube link to it? Thanks