Chuffed 1

A bit frustrated with Hornby's Southern offerings.  The early crest H is 31265, withdrawn 1960, when they could have done 31543, withdrawn 1963; The early crest LN is Lord Rodney, yet Rodney received the late totem as early as 1957, whilst classmate Martin Frobisher retained the early crest until withdrawal in 1962 - and not only that, Rodney was the only Nelson to retain the Maunsell cylinders, and this begs the question, will the Hornby model have the distinctive 'hump' below the smokebox door?

Add to this the Maunsell dining cars being pre-1956, then none of this helps me modelling the SR in the early 60's, except for Lord Nelson, which looks very nice indeed!

I have the late BR crest version. Superb model but yet to run it. I have had the chassis off the body and space for the 8 pin decoder looks tight. What decoders have people used so far that fit?

 

Also you can se the brass flywheel quite clearly down the chimney so. I will paint the flywheel black but also may add a small lead cover within the chimney to add a bit more weight.

 

Also does anyone know what H is the closest match to renumber the current Hornby late crest version as I will be running it alongside a friends H at in the future and quite happy to renumber mine

Hi Roundhouse,

Good luck with fitting your decoder, it's pretty tight in there!

Off the top of my head I'd go for 31308 or 31005, though it's possible the latter had a shorter chimney fitted just prior to withdrawal in 1963. My personal choice for 1962 is 31005. I'm also getting the train pack with 31551, my first ever railway memory but one that requires what became the 'standard' latter-day chimney, fitted I believe, in early 1961.  These chimneys puzzle me somewhat.  There are pictures with H's having them in Southern days, and there are photographs which appear to show either a 'cut-and-shut' or a filler piece inserted in a shorter chimney.  I've measured the ratio between width just below the cap and the height from saddle top (i.e. top of smokebox) to rim edge and the figures come out about 55% for the earlier, Hornby type to around 75% for the later 'standard' type.

31263 clearly had the 'standard' type upon withdrawal but after it's 90's overhaul now has the earlier 'tall' type as per Hornby. I don't know what the story was, but at the time (mid-to-late 50's) this change started, a lot of BR loco departments were providing wider chimney apertures as part of better draughting, with Manors, Counties, Castles and Kings all benefitting on the Western, whilst the Southern was putting BR standard chimneys on N, Q, Ivatt tank and S15 classes.  Perhaps they did the same with the H class by creating or altering a suitable chimney?

Going back to the subject of the thread, I wonder what the return of Simon Kohler will mean for Hornby? Will it be The Return Of Design Clever?

Also pertinent is the state of the competition.  Five years ago, it might be seen as a two-horse race.  Not any more. With DJM and Oxford joining Dapol and Heljan, and Bachmann no longer pre-eminent, we're now seeing 'guerilla' product marketing eating away at the overall market. 

Too many fish and not enough plankton?

I have now had time to amplify my Droplight-ouch! remark, although members who know me will have got the joke.

 

Below is part of my etch for a GWR E147 B-set coach. Modellers have all the time in the world and can fit droplight closed or lowered to suit themselves. Trouble is, they leave little space on each side to apply glue at the glazing stage. On the E147, there would be 15 separate pieces of glazing to affix on each side. It all takes time. As a producer of RTR coaches, I have often to build many, not just one or two, therefore I always etch droplights into the coach sides and have just one strip of glazing to fit into each side.

Now that's design clever!

When did crimson and cream disappear, for the most part ?

I’m good for Hornby mk1’s but the passengers using them complain they are hungry....

Really started to disappear around 60-61, but a Collett Riviera 2nd and D127 Brake 2nd were used on the last day of the Fairford branch, June 1962. The odd Mk1 was still knocking around the Western into 1964, as indeed were several on the Eastern.

If Hornby want to really make an impact with coaches, then a set of Bulleids - any type - would be manna from heaven. When the competition is Bachmann's antediluvian affairs, Comet or Southern Pride (if you can get them), they'd be onto a sure-fire winner.

As for locos, a LBSCR K mogul or revamped Hawksworth County would be nice...

Yes that was correct when built - and was standard for many S.E.C.R. tank locos at the time .......... oddly the converse was NOT true and the 4-4-0s didn't carry larger buffers ..................... needless to say, the fitting of Maunsell buffers to some locos confused everything later in life. 

It wasn't that the front buffers were deliberately small  - at the time when there were still four and six wheel coaches in service and bogie coaches had moderate overhang, the forward distance from the centre of pivot allowed small buffers, especially for suburban tank locos.  Even the contemporary T9 express locos had buffers that were small by later standards.  On the rear, with quite a swing from the centre of pivot, larger buffers were required from new.

In later years buffers seemed to be swopped round on a seemingly ad hoc basis, 31263 for instance, having large buffers front and rear and 31324 had the later Maunsell stepped pattern.  A similar thing happened with chimneys, and by the early sixties there were probably only five or so locos (31005, 31278, 31263 31308 and 31543 spring to mind) with the tall/thin type as carried by Hornby's model, most of the rest having slightly wider, slightly shorter chimneys as carried by 31263 shortly before withdrawal and into preservation (but not now).

31543, incidentally would make probably the best contender for a Hornby H in early crest as it carried this through to withdrawal in 1963, had the right chimney, bunker type, buffers, etc.,.

31278 of course, had the non-flared bunker.

For some locos, a later C (or LCDR R1?) type chimney was carried from Southern days, 31530 being a classic example.

FWIW, I believe Hornby have done an absolutely superlative job with the H:  Truly outstanding. And mine runs like the proverbial sewing machine too!

For the people who wants a BR version, but missed the boat on pre ordering, Hatton's has more than 10 in stock today but with a warning there is a limited stock , so it seems they managed to get more than their preorders that went sell out.

RRP 119,99, so if you want one get fast

Ordered my H about a month ago from Bure Valley - £87.50. Got a call yesterday and paid for it.

On a different note, like many others I'd guess, geared up to scratchbuild an H using South East Finecast body, Bachmann C chimney etc., when Hornby announced these.  One problem with the BR versions of the H is that during their lives various fittings (mainly Chimneys and buffers) were not only swopped between locos but used components from scrapped C and LCDR R1 locos as well. For instance, rear buffers might be original larger pattern, smaller front type or the standard Southern stepped buffers, as carried in 1961 by 31324, amongst others.

Chimneys are a complete nightmare. There were at least three, possibly four types (tall, short, parallel barrel and maybe a medium type).  Some locos like 31530 in its final days had a stumpy (probably ex-R1) chimney, 31551 in the 1950's had a parallel type with barely perceptible taper which was changed by 1960 to the more common tapered barrel type. I believe that the first batch had parallel chimneys, yet these chimneys might turn up on a later build as they indeed did, later on.  Furthermore there were tapered barrel chimneys that clearly weren't as tall as those shown on Hornby's 31308.

My first choice is 31551, my very first railway memory at Gravesend Central in 1961.  To this end I have an order in with Rails for a train pack. To produce this loco in its final condition I only need to change the rear buffers, an easy job.

My second choice, however, would be 31324, which had the medium type chimney, clearly shorter than the Hornby 31308 (the original of which may also have had a medium height chimney.) Unless I use a Bachmann Southern C class chimney I'm not sure how I can change this. 

I have already let Hornby know of this, obviously too late for them to research the subject further, far too late for them to change the model.  I have spent a lot of time looking at H class photos, and please don't take my word for the above, research it for your chosen loco. It's an absolute minefield of bunker, air brakes, chimneys and buffers. After a few days of research you'll feel your head's about to explode!