Heydon18

It's the ill-informed and/or partisan outbursts of some, especially if witnessed by people outside of the railway fraternity, that give ammunition to those who deride and dismiss us as simply a bunch of, well, cranks. You see plenty of that on Facebook...

 

Also, joining a group and immediately 'going off on one' isn't exactly the best way of either introducing oneself or garnering support. IMHO

when I want lessons in internet etiquette I’ll let you know , people will form their opinions no matter what such is the nature of human nature

Are you offering your time and money as well ? Is that your best contribution ? There should be some clause about anyone feeling they can do anything they like with any steam engine in preservation merely because they own them , they should be protected , they are all special , the north yourkshire moors railway is running out of locomotives . Also right now the Union of South Africa is going to replace Tornado on it’s scheduled railtours as it broke down in April . Soon they won’t be any steam locomotives left to run railtours maybe it’s due partly to European Union regulations , that these locomotives have to pass .

If union of South Africa were broken beyond all repair and it wasn’t possible to save her to return to the tracks then yes by all means keep it in a museum, but the attitude here is “ I cannot return her to steam and no one else is going to either “ , that is selfish attitude , why not have an arrangement like Flying Scotsman partly on display at NRM , and then brought out for rail tours .

I do not think every avenue has been explored , why not start an appeal to the public like the company that made Tornado asked for donations to help fund parts for the P2 locomotive ? It worked for them , I’m sure it would work for any steam engine should they go cap in hand if necessary ? But no it comes across as shear stuborness on Mr Cameron’s part , and will not explore these avenues to keep 60009 on the rails . ( but I’m sure alll my suggestions like others I have put down here will have scorn poured over them )

. All* ( speeding )

I'm sure Mr. Cameron would welcome your offer

of time and money to put the loco through

another full overhaul to Network Rail standards

Are you offering your time and money as well ? Is that your best contribution ? There should be some clause about anyone feeling they can do anything they like with any steam engine in preservation merely because they own them , they should be protected , they are all special , the north yourkshire moors railway is running out of locomotives . Also right now the Union of South Africa is going to replace Tornado on it’s scheduled railtours as it broke down in April . Soon they won’t be any steam locomotives left to run railtours maybe it’s due partly to European Union regulations , that these locomotives have to pass .

 

If union of South Africa were broken beyond all repair and it wasn’t possible to save her to return to the tracks then yes by all means keep it in a museum, but the attitude here is “ I cannot return her to steam and no one else is going to either “ , that is selfish attitude , why not have an arrangement like Flying Scotsman partly on display at NRM , and then brought out for rail tours .

 

I do not think every avenue has been explored , why not start an appeal to the public like the company that made Tornado asked for donations to help fund parts for the P2 locomotive ? It worked for them , I’m sure it would work for any steam engine should they go cap in hand if necessary ? But no it comes across as shear stuborness on Mr Cameron’s part , and will not explore these avenues to keep 60009 on the rails . ( but I’m sure alll my suggestions like others I have put down here will have scorn poured over them )

If John Cameron had not bought 60009 out of BR service in 197 it would have been scrapped with the rest of the class. The loco will be conserved for the foreseeable future and on public view when the museum is built.

So why do not have a problem with Jeremy Hosking storing 'Bittern' and the large collection of locos he amassed, out of view in the old Hornby factory in Margate?

Dava

If John Cameron had not bought 60009 out of BR service in 197 it would have been scrapped with the rest of the class. The loco will be conserved for the foreseeable future and on public view when the museum is built.

So why do not have a problem with Jeremy Hosking storing 'Bittern' and the large collection of locos he amassed, out of view in the old Hornby factory in Margate?

Dava

I have a problem with anyone who thinks that these lcocs should be treated in this fashion regardless of how much time has been spent and money as though that gives them the right , they are not owners merely custodians of these locos nd people can have a problem with me saying that until their blue in the face . If mr Cameron cannot maintain theses locos then there should be a clause that prevents them being returned forever into static show and therefore deteriorate into such a condition that makes it impossible to return to steam in the future

Besides peple can cricitise me all they want but the fact remains ....years later the Union of South africa could very likely be forgotten about in a railway she somewhere ...i have no personal grudge , and yes i havent contributed like Mr Cameron has have you ? i think not also!

I do have a problem with what he is doing with "his " locomotive 

 

What makes you think that the loco is going "to rust away in (a) museum" any more than the exhibits in the NRM?  Apart from being badly written your post suggests that you have some sort of personal grudge against Mr.Cameron who has done so much for the preservation movement.  Can you honestly say that you've done as much?

Ray.

 

I have no personal grudge and didn't realise there was Grammar police on board here 

I am not sure that the NRM and the "National Collection" has ever had any interest in having two locos of the same class.

 

I would prefer to see any loco out running rather than stuffed and mounted but in this case, I think I will just be grateful to the owner for saving them and to accept that he has a free choice as to what he does with them while he owns them. He must have put huge amounts of money into keeping them running over the years and has earned the right to enjoy owning them as static exhibits in a museum.

Mr CAmeron 

At least we have been able to see them running many times over a long period, which is more than can be said of many preserved locos. 

 

Yes be thankful for the Owner for keeper this loco running , but to allow it to be stuffed in an engine shed is a crime and I don't care what anyone says that "he's free to do as he pleases " anyone remember the state they found Flying Scotsman in before it was brought back to the tracks ? a neglected state .  It s a pompous attitude he has for the "Cameron Legacy" a better legacy would be to sell it on so that it can be better preserved not rusting in a museum or a private monument to "his legacy " which quite frankly is narcissistic to say the least . Pete waterman whose LNWR workshop helped to out fit Union of South Africa and went under a massive overhaul in 2010 didn't feel he "owned " Flying Scotsman . If  Mr Cameron "does as he pleases " then this loco is doomed to be in a static state for years and to rust . I hope for one that Mr Cameron sees sense before its too late and be allowed for this engine to rust away in museum 

A report in Steam Railway [462 p8] states that John Cameron, owner of A4 60009 Union of South Africa & K4 61994 The Great Marquess, will be withdrawing both from mainline and preserved railway operation, and building a museum to house them on his farm at Balbuthie, Fife, close to Kilconquhar.

 

60009 will have a final fling, being restored  to use by Riley & Son for a last spell of mainline operation from around Easter 2017 up to the end of the boiler certificate in July 2019, so there will be chances to ride behind and see this iconic locomotive for a couple of years yet. Mr Cameron bought the loco from BR service in 1966 and has run it on mainline metals for several spells since 1972. Before that it ran on a length of the Lochty Private Railway on a farm he then owned. The sight of 'Number 9' crossing the Forth Railway Bridge or departing King's Cross was truly  iconic.

 

There is no such last hurrah for the unique K4 2-6-0 The Great Marquess (LNER 3442). The loco has a crack in the inner firebox and its boiler certificate has lapsed. A further overhaul would cost into 6 figures and Mr Cameron (77) comments 'no-one is going to write out a seven-year ticket for me'. He bought the loco when it was out of use on the SVR with a broken crank axle and it ran back on the mainline from 2006 after he funded extensive repairs. The K4 class was built for service on the West Highland Railway but were displaced in the late 1950s.

 

Mr Cameron has invested huge amounts of money in restoring and operating these locomotives, delighting countless people over the past 50 years, for which he deserves much thanks. He is of course entitled to do what he feels best with the locos at this time in his life. Many of us will be sorry to see them go, but at least they will stay in Scotland where they belong, rather than being sold down South.

 

Possibly an alternative option would have been to create a new building to house them for public view at the Scottish Railway Museum at Bo'ness, just across the Forth; or at the Caledonian Railway at Bridge of Dun, close to the ECML; or in Fife at the Kingdom of Fife RPS down the road at Leven? Just a thought.

 

Dava

 

I think that this is a very selfish act by Mr Cameron , why doesn't he sell Union of South Africa to someone like the National Railway Museum? since Mallard ( as I understand it correct me if I'm wrong), can no longer grace the tracks and is permanently In static display , they surely have connections with other organisations who could organise rail tours with the proceeds going toward the locomotive's upkeep .  As to whether or not Mr Cameron "owns" these locomotives , Wasn't it Pete Waterman on "owning" the Flying Scotsman who said "were not owners of these locomotives , merely custodians of them ".  It IS a selfish act depriving further generations of our English heritage , there are always ways , doubtless we have all seen the documentary following the North Yorkshire Moors railway and their difficulties , but they have turned things around and visitors still flock to their railway .  I'm sure that Heritage railways such as this in the future will be able to pull resources and have locomotives from other heritage railways making guest appearances. If all locomotive owners felt like this there would be no locomotives at all running the lines Flying Scotsman would never have returned to the rails, and Tornado project would never have got off the ground neither would the P2 project because things like this generate cynicism among prospective backers. You see the even bigger picture of this is the effect it will have to the rest of the heritage community , when they sit around the board meeting table with potential backers , they will see comments that Mr Cameron has made about the up keep of these locos and it could put them off endangering the future of other Heritage railways.  We as a Enthusiast community need to keep as many of these fantastic Locomotives "alive" to be proud of them .  I sincerely hope that someone comes forward and makes Mr Cameron an offer for these locomotives , and he sees sense and accepts , therefore surely the selling to an  organisation that can keep Union of South Africa running while it still is in boiler certificate, and then run it on rail tours to finance the future of not only this fantastic engine but ensure that other locomotives do not suffer a similar fate !