salmonpastures

I think it is SAD in the B&W photo. Seeing that the train leaving appears to being pulled by a Warship I would imagine that the photo was taken after steam had gone from the WR and the turntable is redundant.

Flocked turntables,,,, there's a prototype for everything if you look close enough!!.

SAD 

The table at Kingswear was located between a loop, here holding coaching stock, and a siding.  Very close, but no hand rails installed.

 

7036471081_d41a1dd007_o.jpg

 

Was it a vacuum powered table, and therefore there would be no need to provide railings as no one would be walking around the perimeter of the pit?

Is that grass growing in the turntable pit?????

If so I want nothing more to do with it!!!!!!

SAD [PS: thanks for your help this afternoon]

There should be a repository for little gems like this so they are not lost with the passing of time.

Richard

Richard, I think we have just found it.

Clive, I read somewhere that the GC drivers weren't that impressed with Gresleys pacifics when compared with the B3 / 9N

Mind you it could have been more to do with "old loyalties" than actual performance.

IMO the B3 looked the part,,, as did most of Robinsons locomotives apart from the L1,,, that one is started as it now has a running chassis.

Valour on those Pullmans is, for me, what railway modelling is about.  Super - it's a loco I would love but, I fear, wishful thinking!

2750,,, many thanks for your post,,,, simple one liner's like yours make it all worthwhile,,,, and it did take a while!!!

Tony was kind enough to try and re-create this picture

even down to the telegraph poles!!!

Mr J.G.Robinson and a lot of his Edwardian counterparts seemed to feel the aesthetics were as important as the performance.

I don't really care what the real one's were like,,,, I don't know enough about it to comment.

But when Valour pulled 9 pullmans round LB I was "rather chuffed" to say the least.

Tony then decided it needed glazing,,,, and 15 minutes later it had some!!!!

Typical teacher,,,, things can always be improved,,, and I am not complaining.

Many thanks Tony,,, what a wonderful day out,,,, again!!! 

SAD

Congratulations Tony,

I'll see you next week in the The Willoughby!!!!,,,,assuming my glasses come back from the Optishuns

SAD

Very nice.

Did you use the Bachmann D11 as a base model?

Hello Bon Accord,

The engine and chassis are scratch built out of brass and nickel silver.

Markits wheels and a Portescap motor and gearbox

The tender was from a very early K's ROD kit,,, but it need a fair amount of work to get it close, I ditched their "chassis" and built one with pickups.

If I had to start again I would build a scratch tender as well,,,, but I can think of all sorts of things to do before building another B3 !!!!.

Mick's painting makes all the difference and as mentioned on a previous post I will post pics of it when it has been reunited with the chassis.

Many thanks for your interest.

SAD

  Easy

 

K's, BEC, McGowan , Crownline etc etc !!

Can you still by PAFRA???

Really useful stuff,,, it lasted about 6 months and then everything converted back to being a kit!!

Those were the days!!

SAD

Is a model scratchbuilt if for instance contains very few hand-cut, hand shaped parts and relies on commercially produced items for most of its features? If it is, then is it very much different if almost the whole model is made by a computer-powered machine but using instructions that had to be built up from very basic beginnings by an amateur, intending to create and own the model? If of course the business of programming the machine to make the model becomes so user-friendly that it simply consists of selecting component shapes from an extensive library of "ready made" features, my view would be that it can no longer count as scratch building, or indeed physical or real "building" of any sort. If all of the parts have been designed, prepared or manufactured by somebody else then it's certainly not my idea of scratch building, although it might still be building of a higher form than kit-building if the parts required extensive fettling and fitting either because of limitations of manufacture or because they were never designed to go together in the first place.

 

How do we quantify the percentage of input to a model that has to be by hand, or (if using self-designed but machine made parts) requiring design work almost "from first principles" in order for it to count as scratchbuilt?

 

Do we need a new category for models built up either from wholly commercial parts (but ones that were not meant to go together or which came from several different sources) or produced largely from parts created by personal CAD-CAM, "cottage industry" CAD-CAM, or kitchen table resin casters? If we were talking about mixing kits it would be kit-bashing or cross-kitting, but in many cases these models are not from kits so what would be a good, short, new name for such a category?

Graeme,

My initial reaction to all this is "in the end does it really matter"??

For me "scratch building" is taking a drawing and a few bit of brass and having a go at recreating the original in a smaller scale.

And I thoroughly enjoy the process.

You achieve the same results but from a completely different starting point and perspective.

I have to assume if you did not enjoy the different process you would stop doing it.

The end results are the same,,, we produce something you cannot buy in a box, and to me that is very important.

The guys who are computer literate and can get a machine to do all the hard work in my eyes are without doubt much smarter than me,,, but they are also producing something you cannot buy in a box ,,, and good luck to them.  [i struggled with a polaroid camera!!!]

Your comment on, quote "the business of programming the machine to make the model becomes so user-friendly that it simply consists of selecting component shapes from an extensive library of "ready made" features"  to me proves the point that the first ever computer was obviously invented in Swindon!!!

SAD

Thanks, I wasn't expecting a reply like that!, Yes it is a skew bridge and it's also lower on one side than the other. I've never built anything like this before but didn't have a lot of choice as there wasn't anything suitable for my layout. Unfortunately, the stones are wrong for the area I've modelled but unless I'd used the Wills stone sheets (which are a bit to thick for my modelling skills at present), I was unable to find anything else that would do the job.

 

Mike,

 

 

Mike, 

I bet there are numerous people looking at your bridge thinking, "I wouldn't mind that at all".

That's your bridge and you built it to fit your layout.

NICE ONE

The really important thing is you have had a go,,, you may not be 100% happy with it but you can always improve it or replace it at some point in the future.

What was the old cycle wheel and stick analogy,,,,"once you've got going if you don't keep hitting the cycle wheel with the stick IT WILL fall over".

SAD 

Well I think I'm going to give up building this layout and release a book titled 'How to model everything twice'!!!

 

I thought I was doing so well this weekend, I'd managed to ballast the second station board, get some more of the platform top down and also make a start on where the platform lights should go. Pretty straightforward stuff?  

 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        

 

Somehow, I'd managed to pick up the wrong sheet of plasticard for the platform top and only noticed this the next day once I'd stuck it firmly down with superglue. Needless to say, it didn't come back up very easily and took half of the little lugs form the Peco platform edging with it! 2 Hours later and I managed to sort out 'another' of my silly errors and get back on (no pun intended) track.

 

So far so good, and with the platform fixed, I was a happy camper......until I noticed this.......

 

 

Ballast 2.jpg

 

 

.......the ballast on the left was much darker than on the right........which means I hadn't mixed the right quantity of Calci Sand with the WS stuff. In the real world this would be normal and it wouldn't be such an issue if it wasn't on a board joint. I'm trying to divert people's attention away from the join and not to it! I love ballasting so I'll enjoy taking it up and doing it again.......NOT!

 

Oh well, onwards and upwards.......and in the mean time, here's a couple of pictures to keep you going until the next installment.....

 

Bush.jpg

 

Virgin Voyager.jpg

Scoobyra,

Uneven ballasting colour right on the baseboard joint,,,,, welcome to Murphy's 3rd law on ballasting!!!

Happens to everyone,,,,it happens to me every time I go near the bloomin stuff.

You are running diesels,,,, which stop against platforms,,, how about a nice hugely huge oil slick which starts at one side of the join and finishes at the other??

In fact you could run it all the way down where the track is adjacent to the  platform. 

I like the iron railings in silver,,,, where from???

SAD 

Hi Earlswood,

Not really what I was after, which was basically an explanation of the codes used for example Mousa has a GCR coach kit for a D.1Y2 ZB  but I have not found anywhere in my resources what this means. Also an approximate list of when various coaches may have appeared on the GWR/GCR Joint Railway

Hello Skaran,

Couldn't agree more with the suggestion to look at the GCR Society pages for detailed questions such as coaching stock,,,, they are a very helpful and friendly bunch.

There are quite a few GC/LNER modellers on here as well,, myself included.

Loco's situation is slowly getting better with the assistance of Bachmann & John at  http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk/ which are designed for P4 but apparently can be used for other 4mm systems with a bit of effort.

SAD 

I was going to post a couple of pictures up of a bridge that I built but after looking through this thread, I'm not going to bother. How you guys can build such great models is unbelievable and to make them look so realistic is just beyond my comprehension!

 

Remarkable!

scoobyra,

As Orford advised,,,  I also suggest you get your efforts posted on this thread,,, if you are just starting out the amount of assistance and constructive suggestions you will receive will be invaluable.

We all had to start somewhere,,,, and you are very fortunate to be able to draw off the vast experience that is freely offered on sites such as this.

You can waste an awful amount of money and time learning all the wrinkles the hard way. 

Good luck and happy modelling.

SAD

I know I have cut most of what Mr Wright has posted, but I want to concentrate on the last two points he makes.

 

Is there a market?  Unfortunately, YES, there is.  Individuals, or groups, will always be envious of other peoples possessions, and will try to acquire them by any means, either legally or illegally.  It is a matter of trust, that we as exhibitors display our wares and not have it lifted by light fingers.  Having been at a model trams show where two unique models went for a walk, while the exhibitor was attending to another layout opposite, I will NEVER leave my own stock unattended.  I have also been offered ludicrous sums of money for my own items - a chap at my first ever show as an exhibitor offered £5 for a pair of trams I'd got on display, as he probably thought I was just a kid and would have taken the money regardless.  I was there with my brother, and needed to take a break - was informed upon returning that the chap had come back and was disappointed that the layout was being watched by my brother.

 

Should the perpetrator be named and shamed if caught?  YES, but only passed on to the shows organisers and venue staff to look out for the individual in question, as they would hopefully take a measured response to the person turning up, rather than the potential lynch mob that could ensue if everyone was made aware of them.

The mind boggles,,, and as a regular exhibitor at exhibitions it is also rather worrying.

I will seriously have to look at these recently available cheap and cheerful cycling camera's in an attempt to offer a deterent.

But to take something from a past modellers estate leaves me completely COLD.

 SAD

This is a great thread, thanks for sharing everyone - lots of inspiration and plenty of food for thought!

 

Here are a few of the buildings I've scratch-built for my N gauge layout:

 

 

I should really hurry up and get the layout finished!

 

Cheers

Simon

Full credit to you Simon,,,, you are achieving 4mm levels of detail whilst actually modelling in 2mm.

Not easy,,, particularly with an urban landscape. 

Lovely modelling sir.

SAD

Effective and well the worth the time it took to complete

 

Kevin

Kevin, Allan,

Many thanks for your encouragement, & it really is appreciated.

The considerable number of winter nights in a luke warm shed suddenly become worthwhile.

For me a hobby has to be enjoyable otherwise why do it,,,,, but there are times where I question my "enjoyment level".

Forums such as this are a wonderful way of improving your skills and taking on different perspectives/approaches.

Long may it continue and thanks to all for contributing.

SAD

I very much like the way you have granite setts. The whole model reminds me of the area where I used to live in west Leeds. One of the main roads had setts which became shiny with the traffic using the road. That and the tram tracks made it lethal on a bike. I have come off many times, if I didn't get the wheels stuck in the tram lines, I would be skidding around corners on the slippery surface.

Derek

Derek,

Thanks for the compliments,,,, I also have "happy" memories of trams,,,, like driving round town with father circa 1956-8 in his standard 10 van,,, my vocabulary expanded considerably each time we got stuck behind one,,, my expletives knowledge came from a different source,, the shed foreman and his various henchmen at Doncaster works.

We weren't vandalising anything but we did have a manic desire to get a few more cops in the Ian Allans compendium,,,, oh happy days,,, but looking back for sure it was hazardous but luckily long before the days of "Def by Elf & Safety"

The granite sets are from Wills,,,, I toyed with the idea of modelling clay and scriber but the deadline for the next show got the better of me once again,,,, I started off by trying to get the "grain" all going the same way but quickly realised it was going to cost me a fortune,,, compared with a cost effective mix n match approach!!.

Luckily where the shops are is about 3 feet from the viewing public and so hopefully not as noticeable when compared with a quality camera about 4 inches away.

Another of westerners shots and perhaps my personal favourite,,, it shows the foothills of the pennines just how I remember them.

The older trams really did "grind" up the hillier routes. 

I also get rather frustrated with the tram as it was added as a novelty,,,, but it generates more questions at shows than anything else.

I know very little about trams apart from Sheffields solar powered versions!!!

I know this pic has been on RMweb before and I apologise for that.

SAD

I think you have nailed it with those terraces.  Very South Yorkshire, if childhood memories of driving up to my grandparents hold true.  Great to see 2 whole rows, which is not often attempted, but makes the scene persuasive, and I had a peek at your blog to see how it all fitted in; great layout. Lovely subtle effect.

 

You seem to be living in Norfolk and modelling the North, whilst I ....

Edwardian,

Many thanks for your kind words,,,, Sheffield Library has a digital archive of 1000's of photo's of the old city,,, most are in black and white and when I first found the site I could not believe how many photos of the old buildings I remembered were available on line.

The layout is fictitious and based on my youthful memories of trainspotting but most of the buildings are based on actual buildings I remember as a kid,  particularly the terraced houses and shops & the chapel is where I went to Sunday School!!!!

The terraces over the fiddle yard were a "great idea" to stop folk peering into the fiddle yard,,,, but doing 28 different houses became a bit of a chore,,, a field with a few cows would have been so much easier but somewhat out of character for the Sheffield I frequented.

I am happy with the general appearance of the buildings but finding this site I am going to have to read in detail how people get that "au natural" appearance which in reality so far escapes me,,,, mine still look like models.

But it will be great fun experimenting and I am in no rush to get them finished.

I copy some "scratch" buildings I have done from the library site and I really enjoy the challenge of converting old photo's into a working drawing.

Probably a pointless excercise but I do get a kick from having buildings nobody else has got.

Many thanks to all for the notifications and "westerner" again for the photo's

SAD

Have only just found this thread and have to congratulate everyone for posting pics of some pretty wonderful buildings.

I suppose mine don't really qualify as scratchbuilt as they started life as Howard Scenics terraces,,, but then I decided to make life interesting and put them on a hill.

I used their brickpapers and templates but fitted my own windows as they are pretty close to public scrutiny at exhibitions.

I thought they would be a "quick" way of covering the fiddle yard,,,, that was until I got started,,,,, approx 9 months later they were still driving me potty.

But worth it in the end as they generate a lot of interesting conversations,,,, usually " I was born in one of them" reply "you and me both"

I just wish I had found Captain Kernows efforts before I started,,,,, what a benchmark to follow.

Many thanks to Captain Kernow for the inspiration to get mine finished,,, eventually,,, and to "westerner" for the photo's.

SAD

I notice not much is said about those who, no matter how its done, get other people to build their layouts for them whether it by  having the money to pay people to build things for them or by having a large enough circle of model railwaying friends to do "swaps" )many are not so lucky or are not skilled enough to offer anything to swap. If that's the way they want to do their layouts, that's also fine by me.

Whilst I find the discussion interesting, entertaining and sometimes amusing, it may well put some people off.

Alan,,, not having a LARGE circle of friends [although it is getting bigger!!!] is for me one of the benefits of living in the middle of nowhere.

Whilst I would be delighted if Norm-Salmon popped in to improve my trackwork or be able to recruit Ian Rathbone to do my painting,, lets be honest it's not going to happen.

Having said that I'm actually rather proud that my layout is all my own work.

As I'm sure you are with Wencombe.

Having been involved with "big club" layouts,,, unless you have a Stalinesque project manager they can end up as horrible compromises in lots of area's.

Good or bad it is my trainset and I really wouldn't want anybody else getting involved with the serious decisions/activities.

I also fully understand your lack of interest in building locomotives,,, with your chosen interests it would get pretty boring pretty quickly.

SAD

Is it possible to start a separate thread for Buckingham?  The photographs are incredible.

What a great idea,,, I also found Tony W's colour shots of Buckingham very interesting to say the least.

His workbench is of particular interest.

The fact that Tony G is now lovingly restoring it is surely an indication of how important Peter Denny's work is to the whole hobby.

I know I am biased as a GCR fan but some layouts are quite simply "special".

What Denny was doing 60 odd years ago will still be relevant to the hobby for a long time after we are all gone.

An archive of "special" layouts would benchmark what is possible without relying on the next release from China.

Power to you Tony G,,, I am sure Divine Inspiration will flow your way on many occasions.

SAD   

Hi SAD and the the rest of the Salmon Pastures team, I'd just like to say thank you for allowing me to be 'Guest' operator this last weekend. Although i only operated the layout for about 2 hours I fully enjoyed working alongside all of you.

And I hope you enjoyed your weekend in pickering.

 

thanks again,

 

Jamie Dunn

Jamie, it should be us offering you our thanks,,, the little breaks mean we can go and look round the exhibition,,, and on the odd occasion spend some money!!!!

If you want to come and join us again just let me know through a pm.

After spending far too long sitting looking at my airbrush and compressor I have eventually summoned up the enthusiasm/courage to give it a go,,, my first 3 attempts at a spot of weathering.

More experienced comments would be very welcome.

SAD

It must have been a personal thing but a spitfire pilot that I knew who flew in Burma reckoned that the Packard Merlins were better than the R-R ones.  I'm not qualified to have an opinion.

 

Jamie

Neither am I Jamie and for sure taste is a very personal thing,,, can't be many USAAF types who didn't rate the Packard Merlins in various Mustangs,,,

SAD

      During the 1939-'45. War it was decided that the American Company Packard should make R-R. 'Merlin.' aero-engines as it had the necessary experience in working with large engines.

  The concerned & British ministry arranged for space in a freighter, expecting to trans-ship a few filing cabinets of drawings;  however R-R. provided three pantechnicons' worth!

  Apparantly both Packard & Ford exclaimed over R-R's. generous tolerances, which they were alleged to have said that they would not have countenanced had they designed those aero-engines.

 

   

My old man flew in Mosquito's during the same period and experienced various "Merlin engines" from a variety of sources within the allied empire,,,, in his opinion the Canadians got close but it was just short of a "real R-R merlin",, he also had opinions about the Packard version,,, who apparently also made engines for the agricultural industry.

SAD

Phil, its the through coach from "oop" the North East

Surely better than "out west" or even better,,, "daan sarf"

This is all pretty rich from someone who "waxes lyrical" about the living conditions in the back streets of "South Yorkshire" at exhibitions!!!!!

Hope your not extracting the urine Mr D,,,

SAD