Mike_Walker

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

That clip could also be used in the current discussion about use of B units: how common was an A-B-B-B-B-A lash-up? (Would it have been an A-B-B+B-B-A, if I’ve got the nomenclature right?)
 

I wonder if the horn was deliberate because the train approaches the crossing unsighted round a concealed curve?
 

Keith.

Those LTV A and B units were all regarded as separate units and were mixed and matched as required although it was almost always a pair of As bracketing a string of Bs. In the early days such could be more widely seen as several roads ordered F units in A-B-A, A-B-B-A or A-B-B sets as required. Where they were fitted with couplers at each end it became common place to lash them up as convenient and not always with an outward facing cab at both ends!

There is a strict rule (14-L) requiring the sounding of -- -- o -- approaching all grade crossings with the final blast being continued until the train fully occupies the crossing so in this case the engineer would appear not to be complying. The only exception is where there are two or more very closely spaced crossings where the final blast is continued until the last is occupied or where local ordnances prohibit the use of horns for part or all of the day.

Here is an interesting example of a 12 ton tanker which appears to closely match the Oxford model in Shell-BP livery but confined to internal use at Falmouth Docks in February 1976. Would make an interesting prototype either for a repaint or a future Oxford offering.

Possibly even more interesting is this rectangular tank in the same livery and use.

Both pictures were taken by my good friend Martin Stoolman and are reproduced here with his blessing.

There is now a diagram for one Turbo on the branch on Saturdays and Sundays. It comes down from Bristol ECS early on Saturday, stables overnight at Exeter and returns ECS to Bristol on Sunday evening. The other two weekend diagrams are booked for 158s and all three are 158s M-F, although a 150 can be substituted if a 158 isn't available. On Sunday the three diagrams produced real variety: 150261+143621, 158951 and 166202. GWR's remaining 143s will probably cease operating with the December timetable change, 143611 has recently been stood down and is being stripped for useable parts and only four are required to cover the currently booked work.

Why not phone them and ask? Derek doesn't bite!

31 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Hard to believe that's  eighty years old. Is it just those two units that exist of 103 now?

Yes, the A unit is original but the B unit was one which had been converted into a boiler car - I forget its origins - and had ended up at the Virginia Railroad Museum in Roanoke. The A unit had been at the National RR Museum outside St. Louis. EMD brought the two together and cosmetically restored them in 1989 to celebrate their 50th anniversary they were not operational. After that they appeared at several events together before returning to their respective museums. The A unit is well cared for, under cover, at St Louis but photos I've seen of the B unit at Roanoke show it to be in the open and in a sorry state.

FT B-units were regarded somewhat differently to the later versions. To avoid unions demanding each unit be treated as a separate locomotive thereby requiring a separate crew, the cab and booster units were, in most cases, coupled by drawbars making them in effect a single unit in the same way as a steam locomotive and tender. For this reason they tended to be numbered the same with the suffix A, B, C and D (or in the case of the Santa Fe L (Lead), B, C, D). Some railroads had proper couplers between the B-units and drawbars only between the A and B units creating A-B+B-A lashups rather than A-B-B-A.

There were actually two different FT B-units. The more common is that used in the 4-unit sets which are the same length as the A-unit with a noticeable unused area at one end where the cab would be, the overhang of the body is also greater at this end as on an A-unit the distance between the truck and end of the body is different at each end and this is replicated on the B-unit. A few railroads - the Lackawanna was one - specified A-B-A sets of FT units and these incorporated shorter B units, often called unofficially FT-SB (Short Booster), that were symmetrical similar to the F2B, F3B and subsequent models.

Of course, as time wore on and diesels working in multiple unit became the norm, many early F units were modified with conventional couplers throughout enabling them to be used efficiently as circumstances and maintenance required. Some railroads retained the original numbering others renumbered to give each unit, A or B, its own identity.

The asymmetric layout of the FT B-unit can be seen here.

2 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I very much doubt that an out of use signal would ever be allowed to display a proceed aspect, due to the possibility of it being taken as a proceed aspect despite the X.  Similarly, no lamp would be displayed, the assumption being that an out of use signal, or stick as they are otherwise known, is best if it is invisible at night.  My memory of disposal of semaphore signals replaced by new ones, mostly at the time of the Swansea MAS scheme, so colour light replacements, was that the new signals were hooded with an X on the front of the hood until the scheme went live, when the semaphore arms were removed very quickly; so much so that I cannot recall them being fitted with X's, they just disappeared almost overnight, though some of the posts remained for a while.  It was nearly 50 years ago though and my memory is not perfect, so don't take that undisputed fact!  

 

Xs, as in the photo here, are in my mind associated with new signals not yet in use.

You are correct. Semaphore arms/lamps are removed immediately when replaced by colour-lights as part of the commissioning of the latter. X's are only used for new semaphore installations - still some being installed form time to time. Today, new colour-lights awaiting commissioning are hooded but the application of the white cross seems to be something from the past now.

There was also a path for the GWR Night Riviera ECS in both directions since servicing transferred from OOC to Reading.

This is because it is important the train is the right way round in Cornwall but if it runs via Yeovil it has to reverse at Exeter. Running it via Oxford and the Chiltern line corrects this. Turning it on the Reading triangle would be too disruptive.

However, this has now been superceded by running along the GWML and making detour to turn it on the Greenford triangle thus avoiding GWR drivers having to sign the Chiltern line.

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Have you actually read that I posted earlier that I am already discussing issues internally? Or did you just need to shout in block caps?

 

What are your alternative proposals for ensuring running costs are met to provide you with a free-to-access resource?

 

What would you be prepared to pay for an ad-free version (it's not on the agenda but I may very well put on one!).

 

 

Andy,

I don't think anyone is objecting to advertising on the site in principle, we all appreciate the need to generate revenue to maintain the site. It's just the position at the bottom of the page that is causing annoyance. If they were confined to the right hand side all would be fine. Can this be arranged?

We already have, as I understand it, an ad-free option by subscribing to RM Gold but not everyone wants to do this or possibly can't afford to in these difficult times.

Are you suggesting that the ads at the bottom are generating more revenue than at the right side? 

Mike

12 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

As I have said before Andy, I fully appreciate the need to make RMWeb pay its way. I don't mind adverts at all. It is the fact that it is on top of the site content and changes all the time and every time it does, my eye goes from what I am looking at to the banner then back again. It is massively obtrusive and totally ruins the whole RMWeb experience for me.

 

I have been a huge enthusiast for RMWeb for quite a while now but I genuinely find it unpleasant to look at now to the point where I would rather not look at all rather than have a moving advert in my face 100% of the time.

I completely agree, it's most distracting and annoying.

On 10/10/2020 at 16:40, Rugd1022 said:

 

The locos were only used if one of the minibuses (or their drivers) were unavailable, they used to run every half hour in each direction. Many's the time we've had up to nine or ten men in a cab when this was the case. It wasn't just 47s either, we used 08s, 31s and 50s too, whatever was sitting spare at the time.

Or even a Grid...  56048 at platform 1A at Paddington acting as the “staff bus to Old Oak Common” (to quote the announcer) on 23 August 1990.

45 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I  took a colour transparency of a 'Rowntree train' from Selby standing at Riccall while passengers joined.  The 'Rowntree trains' weren't advertised and called at both Riccall and Escrick long after both stations were officially closed to passenger traffic.

 

Another service for factory etc staff was the Slough to Slough (Industrial) Estate service which I believe first ran during WWII and didn't last too long after the war - possibly to the early 1950s.  The interesting thing about it was that it is the only train service I know of for which ordinary tickets were not issued but passengers were instead issued with pre-printed Edmundson card excess fare tickets, no doubt for some sort of legalistic reason.

Slough Estate Station opened in March 1919. the exact closure date isn't clear but it appears to be circa 1958.

On 18/05/2020 at 21:12, portsladepete said:

How long have you had yours?  I think mine has quietened down after extensive running ,or my hearing has decided to ignore it.

Normally I would put a tiny amount of oil on the motor bearing, but Dapol have warned that this would destroy the motor ???

With the decoder fitted, it is now quite enjoyable, an awful lot of people seem to fit sound to this, wonder if some of them can’t stand the noise!

Pro: Dapol is cheaper.

Cons: How long have you got? In every way the Bachmann version wipes the floor with the Dapol one.

Mike

59 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

The GER had only one Poplar.

These are in West London. I don't have a modern map but I suspect that they on the former North & South Western Junction line

Jonathan

The incline between Action Main Line (actually Poplar Line Junction) on the GWML and Acton Wells Junction on the N&SWJ are designated the Poplar Lines and have been since they were built. The name comes from them being the way the GWR accessed the North London Lines to reach its goods depot within the docks at Poplar.

Wiring them would be of little use to today's GWR apart from allowing 387s to get to Bombardier's Ilford works under their own power but it would be useful for through freight services. I can't see any justification for extend the OLE from Oxford to Handborough.

On the subject of PSBs, the first floor room that housed Swindon Panel (and that it lives in today at Didcot) was roughly the equivalent of a quarter of the building's footprint and around three quarters of the ground floor was occupied by the relay interlocking. But that wasn't all, there were around a dozen remote interlockings at places such as Wootton Bassett.

In addition to the sound of the relays working, the most noticeable thing was the distinctive aroma given off which would even permeate to the operating floor - something we haven't managed to replicate at Didcot.

On 27/09/2020 at 08:51, Busmansholiday said:

A trio of Bristol Omnibus Bristol FLF's with Eastern Coach Works 70 seat forward entrance bodies and fitted with Cave-Browne-Cave heating.

 

I'll get my anorak and leave now.

 

The one on the left at least appears to be a shorter FSF.

On 23/09/2020 at 11:24, melmerby said:

It's strange to think that the US once had extensive networks of electric interurban lines, which these days would be seen as quite modern and eco friendly, but hardly any of these original ones remains.

The Pacific Electric alone ran over about 1000 miles of track.

All killed off by the rise of the private auto and freeway building..

Here's one interurban that does survive complete with street running in the traditional way. The Chicago South Shore & South Bend in Michigan City IN.

The Marlow Donkey was regularly formed of SPC and DET often frustratingly usually with DET coupled to the saloon end of the SPC.

I've been watching this thread hoping that it sheds some light on my backyard - my local station being Bourne End. I remember Chris Turner saying that when he and Paul Karau were researching the Marlow Branch for their definitive tome it was particularly difficult to trace any details of private owner wagons for merchants in the area apart from those operated by Toomers of Reading and Websters of Maidenhead who both had branch offices along the Wycombe and Marlow Railways. 

Chris has published a number of articles in GWJ covering the area which shed some light on operations at High Wycombe and along the branch:

High Wycombe Operations In The Late 1940s   GWJ 51  Summer 2004

Taplow And The Loudwater Goods  GWJ 32  Autumn 1999

Maidenhead And The Maidenhead Pilot  GWJ 36  Autumn 2000

In addition, there was a further article on High Wycombe The Post War Traffic Scene by Harold N James and John Copsey in BRJ 36  Spring 1991.

Chris notes that "most coal traffic for the branch appears to have been collected from Princes Risborough by 10.50 pm Oxford to Taplow, which delivered it to each station and cleared the empties as required". Traffic for Thomas & Green's was handled from Bourne End with the wagons being propelled from Bourne End. Whilst T&G was the only mill in the Wye Valley with a direct rail connection there were several others that generated a considerable amount of coal traffic at Loudwater and Bourne End, deliveries being trucked from the rail yards to the mills. Because apart from Soho Mill (T&G) there were no mills close to Wooburn Green station coal traffic there was largely domestic in nature. Wooburn's other big mill, Glory Mill, was as far as I'm aware, served by Loudwater - it was roughly halfway between the two stations. Paper making was second only to the furniture trade as the area's main industry.

I was fortunate to spend the first three years of my secondary education at the old Wycombe Tech in Easton Street which backed onto the neck of the South Yard so we spent every lunchtime (unless it was raining) watching the passing traffic and shunting of the yard - performed for some months by an immaculate 6106 just after it had been overhauled at Swindon - the last of its type to be dealt with, I believe. Sadly, and I kick myself now, I didn't take copious notes!

There is a picture accompanying the article in GWJ 51 showing a string of PO wagons in South Yard, sadly the only ones that can be identified are two lettered Shipley Collieries plus a William Cory wagon.

I do hope more comes to light on local operations here - not from a modelling perspective, I'm doing deepest Kernow - but to simply piece together what used to happen when I was too young to pay the attention it required.

50 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Transport for Scotland's Director of Rail is a time-served BR man and a former colleague. Top bloke who both understands how a railway works and can handle the politics. 'Nuff said.

Sadly, there aren't enough like him to go round!

Shiplake on the Henley branch is an example of an island platform off a level crossing. It started out as a wayside platform but became an island when the branch was doubled only to revert to its original condition, albeit with the attractive buildings demolished, when it was singled again.

On 13/09/2020 at 12:50, dibber25 said:

Thanks for the correction, it's prompted me to look out the original print, so I can also acknowledge the photographer, Michael Wilkie. His caption in full is:

Passenger Extra RB-100 east crossing the Serpentine River at mileage 11.9 Fraser Valley Subdivision on BC Hydro Rail, at 9.45am June 28 1986.

It would be interesting to know the current status of this particular unit as some are being preserved and others scrapped. (CJL)

 

Chris, if you go back a page or two you'll find my shot of the Pacer in BCR's North Van yard so it obviously made onto the property. 

That's the first shot I've seen of it actually in operation.

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Replacement of franchises with service contracts has to be a good thing, and has been an awful long time coming.

 

On the question of post-virus travel: increased WFH could well do to the traditional city centre business district what the internet has done for high-street shopping, which could indeed significantly flatten peak travel demand in/out of cities, London especially, but that might well a good thing in the long term for railways.

 

Capacity, in the form of infrastructure, trains and staffing, to meet steep peaks is a "poor payer" in any business unless it can be charged to the customer at full marginal cost (i.e. whoppingly high peak fares, as in the airline industry). Giving regular peak commuters on railways a discount for bulk purchase was always an economically questionable thing to do, but probably justified by "locking them in".

 

Flattening peaks should allow unit costs across the board to be slightly reduced, by better utilising assets.

 

And, by no means all travel is to/from office work, even at peak times, so even with that reduced, work travel will continue. Construction workers, health workers, shop workers all use trains, especially in and around London.

 

My guess would be that if/when we can travel together again without risk of giving one another a serious illness, leisure travel will surge as pent-up demand works its way through, and that non-routine-work-related travel will also bounce as people renew face-to-face contact and relationships, then settle to people travelling maybe 2:5 days, and not for traditional full office hours. 

 

The overall volume of travel always tracks the economy pretty closely, so as things settle-out how busy overall the railways are will depend upon how bad/good the economy is.

 

Ticketing for non-traditional commutes definitely needs to be sorted by use of something like the capped pay-as-you-go model used in London - the present national railway ticketing/charging regime is as mad as the franchising regime.

I agree the concession pattern is the way forward. What worries me, and many within the industry, is how it would be implemented. 

London Overground is a concession awarded to Arriva Rail London by TfL and it works very well to the benefit of both parties and the customer. However, TfL conduct their side of the contract sensibly, ensuring ARL meet the contractual requirements (with financial penalties if they fail to do so) but otherwise leaving them to, basically, run the business as they see fit.

Sadly, that approach would be less likely if the existing franchises were replaced by concessions directly managed by the DfT which has shown itself to be obsessed with interfering in and micro-managing the existing franchises let alone under the present EMA arrangements which in some ways are not dissimilar to the concession model. Basically, the power to make any decisions has been taken away from the TOC managements. The line has been described as: "We (the DfT) are in charge now, do as you are told and don't ask questions". Of course the public don't understand this which suits the DfT just fine. As in all branches of government the aim is to find a quango or private sector organisation to take the flack so civil servants or politicians don't have too.

5 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the large building in the background in the last photo is now owned by the Railway Museum there.

Does that mean they've moved from their site north of town to the Diesel Shop.? Pretty bold move if they have - it is huge and another example of investment that was cast aside.

 

Mike

Quote

 

I managed to get to Prince George (Eventually) twice, in 1979 and 1986 both times arriving in PG aboard the Skeena, first from Jasper the second from Prince Rupert but that's another story. On the first occasion no one seemed to know where the BCR trains ran from or even if they existed. The VIA crew said from the same station in PG, other opinions varied from a few hundred yards apart to several miles. After a night in a hotel we got a taxi who's driver assured us he knew the secret and took us to an industrial estate on the south side of town. Just as we were thinking "this can't be right" we came across some tracks, freight cars and a somewhat dishevelled looking building, all shut up and nobody about - to be fair it was about 1/2 hour before the train was due to depart.  Eventually, just as we really starting to worry, RDCs BC31 and BC11 appeared. 

 Moving on seven years to May 1986 and what a difference - not just the weather! A brand new station, well signposted, had been built and the train was obviously attracting far more business requiring four Budds. Once again we had BC31 and BC11 but they were bracketed by BC30 and BC14. Note the high level platform but because of the wide gap to allow freight cars to pass bridging pieces had to be deployed. New replacement stations had been built at many locations, large and small, along the line and a real effort was being made to promote what had now become the Cariboo Dayliner with considerable success. As Chris says above, it was routine to add two more at Lillooet which provided a daily out and back service from North Vancouver, the PG service only running on alternate days in each direction.

BC11 and BC30 were both new to the BCR's predecessor the Pacific Great Eastern, BC14 came from SEPTA and was originally Reading 9155 whilst BC31 was originally Great Northern 2350 and was acquired from Amtrak in 1976 to replace the original BC31 which had been destroyed in 1973 when it hit a rockslide and caught fire.

It wasn't only the passenger service that saw investment. A well equipped diesel shop was opened at Prince George in 1985.

Sitting outside on 27 May 1986 we find 704, an MLW built C630M, the last of BCR's initial batch of these 3,000hp locomotives built in 1969. They were followed by 18 of the modified M630 design and, finally, eight M630W's with the wide nose 'Canadian' cab.

Later that day and at the other end of the shed we find 644, a MLW M420W along with sister 640 and 804, one of the ex-Erie Lackawanna ALCo C425s.

The BCR staff at all levels were incredibly friendly and helpful, allowing us to wander at will around the facility. At one point we "commandeered" 722 as a stage for a group photo which took some time to organise even if there was only four of us. We noticed some BCR staff looking on but they didn't stop us even though they did want the loco to put on a train! 

The furthest north I got on the BCR was the Parsnip River bridge at mp 548.1 where 644, M420W; 804, C425; and 640, M420W, lead a southbound on 28 May 1986.

In 1983, BCR opened the 82-mile branch to the coal mines around Tumbler Ridge. This joined the main line at Wakely Junction and because it featured some long tunnels was electrified at 50kV 60Hz. Therefore having made the long drive north from PG, much of it over poor logging roads, we were to say the least disappointed when a loaded coal train came off the new line on 28 May 1986 behind run-through CN power! GP40-2LW 9599 and SD50Fs 5425 and 5435. Apparently this rare occurrence was due to some OLE maintenance work going on.

From Wakely Junction the electrification continued a few miles south to Tacheeda where there were exchange sidings. Here we encountered a team from Balfour Beatty who were the contractors for the electrification who again made us most welcome - anyone daft enough to venture up there deserved to be treated royally. This modified caboose was used to inspect the OLE and in addition to the second cupola it had a pantograph. 

We took it in turns to put the pan up and down! We were also given a demonstration of how to isolate sections of the OLE which involved winding out a circuit breaker on the mast to the right. Our host did this very slowly creating a spectacular arc about 3' long - but at the same time telling the BCR guys to always do it as quickly as possible to avoid damage.

We were then taken for lunch at the adjacent bunk house which was more like a 5-star hotel with some of the biggest steaks I've seen being served and in North America that's saying something!

Unfortunately, while this was being enjoyed, the next train arrived from Tumbler Ridge which was electrically hauled. There were seven of these 6,000hp GF6Cs built by GM Canada on the same frame as the SD40-2.

Sadly the reign of the electrics was short lived and by 2002 all seven were stored at the back of the Prince George diesel shop awaiting their fate. 6001 was preserved at the PG railway museum but the rest were scrapped. After a period of diesel operation, the Tumbler Ridge sub was also abandoned soon after when the mines shut.

Mike

Basically yes. They were displayed to indicate the state of the signalling (S) or telegraph (T) equipment. If all was well the plates were displayed with a white letter on a black ground. If there was a problem then they would be reversed to show a red letter on a white ground.

The idea was that they could be seen by linesmen or inspectors travelling on passing trains but did not absolve the Bobby from the responsibility of reporting the problem by the most expeditious means.

Their use was not confined to the GWR and they were in use from around the 1880s to just before WW1.