philip-griffiths

Just a thought which sadly has nothing to do with your missing handle, but would it be possible to back date a Bachmann G2 to when it ran in LNWR livery?

Please keep answers clean.

Yes but limited choice as the Belpaire boiler only appeared in the last year or so.

It's been a while since I posted anything about this but progress has been made toward completion. I managed to get to South Wales, to the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway, and take some shots to make up a better backscene.

 

The one that I had made from interweb photos didn't look too bad in itself but it was printed on my PC and then the A4 sheets cut and joined up. This was fine for about a week but the sheets started to distort and gaps appeared between each sheet. This time I am having it professionally printed onto a roll to prevent a repeat of this. Once the new backscene is stuck to the board, the board can be permanently fixed to the baseboards and the ends fixed with panel pins and glue (presently they are only clamped on).

 

One other problem has shown up since fitting the fiddle yard and having it all set up for weeks now - the lower track was given sliding track joiners and has stayed in alignment but the upper track did not have these and has shifted so that the track does not line up at all now and nothing can be run. This may have something to do with the upper track being built on thick card and not simply the lack of joiners. I may have to rebuild the fiddle yard...

If you do not mind the fact that it is a modern scene, someone used to market a back scene based on Tredegar, taken from the old railway line which is now a trough-pass. Though I cannot find it when I did a quick search tonight.

With all his works of fiction he is crying out for a cameo performance on some stage or other  

All the best with this.  I'm reading Rice's book on the subject at present and the competition has whetted the appetite.

Thanks for this.What I do find really interesting is the working to Newport .Can't recollect this during the 50's.Any further information or photos on these workings ?

WW Tasker in his book on the MTA has a picture of a coal tank at Newport in 1951. By 1954 Sirhowy trains were terminating at Risca for a connection to Newport (how to kill a service eh?). Of course post war the LMS allocated a few of Ivatt's new 2-6-2Ts to Abergavenny and Tredegar so 1201, 1203 and 1204 could have been seen on the trains and also Stanier 2-6-2t 40121 and a couple of others were down that way.

Regards.

I agree with Ian's comment about the G2s - I've certainly not ween pictures of Coal Tanks on Barry Island excursions but equally I'm a long way from having seen every photo taken of them in South Wales!

 

One thing I think you can be reasonably sure of is that they worked into Cardiff on freights prior to the Grouping but that probably ceased by the 1930s when, I believe, a lot of pooling of goods traffic took place in South Wales leading to it being re-routed or worked ina different way

From the evidence I have they worked passenger into Newport from Tredegar until the mid 50s. They worked freight down the rhymney to Cardiff. The Barry island excursions were solely super Ds. Freight to Newport and Hereford was also super Ds. The coal tanks did haul some northern excursions but only to and from Abergavenny junction where a main line engine took the train on. They were used as pilots at new street in Birmingham I believe.

Don't know about Swansea allocations though have created a partial record of Tredegar and Abergavenny allocations from 1930s monthly newsletters of the RCTS and information shared with me by Harold Walkely who was at Aber shed in the 50s.

Regards.

While not valid for the LNWR version, the LMS used them with 4 wheelers upon South Wales until 1932 - Abergavenny to Merthyr line - and 1935 - Sirhowy valley line. The four wheeled coaches can be built using kits from LRM. While John redrup has never produced the correct underframe for the sirhowy stock, the difference would not jar.

From the 30s the LMS replaced the LNWR carriages with vestibule 8-wheel stock. It was varied but I've seen evidence of LMS Period 3 BTK available as rtr. Comet sides would allow you to model the BTO excursion stock as well. So there are choices available.

Regards.

The Wills stone sheets is much better.  Your original retaining wall did not say 'South Wales'.

Thanks for that, Brian.

 

I have thought about a paddy train but I'm not sure about what stock to use. I already knew that they used vans in later NCB days but what about in the 1920s and 30s? If they used second hand coaches I guess they would be ancient pre-grouping stuff? I could only get one 4-wheel coach into the headshunt anyway. Unless I run the paddy train from the exchange sidings to the run-round loop with the assumption that there is a larger village at that end and the pit itself is in easy walking distance from what's shown on the layout.

On the Sirhowy line they used old North London stock with wooden benches for workmen' strains. I've also seen photos of older pre grouping stop used for this work.

Regards.

Good spot. Yes it is. A Gordon Edgar image from 1972.

 

Fill your boots here.....

 

 

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/sets/72157626724121567/

 

 

Rob.

Takes me back.  Ruston, this is what you need to capture.  Have a look at the pictures of Hafodyrynys and the other mines.  

I remember as a child stretching to see out of the back of my parents Marina as we drove past the colliery to see if I could spot a working steam loco, often you could spot one on the spoil train.   The line between the colliery and the abandoned tunnel under the village always had a load of empty mineral wagons.  I can never remember seeing them shunted.  Oh and the locos were filthy.  

A good book to to see if you can borrow through a friend or your local library is Industrial Locomotives of Gwent by Geoffrey Hill. It has allocation data and a good variety of pictures to help you weather the locos.  

regards

Looking forward to seeing how this develops.  My parents live at the The Bryn, the village where the North & West route makes its final crossing of the Usk before it heads towards Abergavenny and then the climb up to Llanvihangel.  If you base the model north of Abergavenny then all the LNWR/LMS freight to/from the Merthyr, Tredegar & Abergavenny (MTA) line can be included. The LNWR did run some freight south of Abergavenny but there was a pooling arrangement between the LMS and GWR around the 30s, this may have stopped the LNWR locos running south. 

Until the early 50s the LMS had a stud of Super Ds and Crabs at Abergavenny for mainline freight.  No LMS passenger trains worked north of Abergavenny except for excursions - Blackpool or the Cadburys factory were two popular destinations.  There are eye witness reports of 12 wheeler dining cars on the Blackpool excursion traffic.  In the early 50s when the boundaries between the LMR and WR were being established the LMR whisked away all the LMS types from Abergavenny except for a few Ivatt 2-6-2Ts and replaced them with a load of Super Ds, I expect as a present for the WR who took over the operation of the shed there.

One specialise traffic train that is possible for you to run whether you are north or south of Abergavenny is the ICI Dowlais to the North West Ammonia train.  These had a tight timetable as there was a life limit to the ammonia so had to be moved quickly.  The original route was from Dowlais over the MTA to Abergavenny and then on from there over the North & West to the North West and over the Pennines to the North East.  On the withdrawal of freight on the MTA there was a period when the tanks went via the Brecon & Merthyr and Hereford and Brecon. After that route succumb the train was routed down the Taff-Bargoed branch to the Taff Vale Extension then eastwards across the famous Crumlin Viaduct and onto the N&W at Pontypool.  

I'd highly recommend the John Hodge books.  Get both books based on Abergavenny as the pictures will give you good inspiration.  The book on the Vale of Neath line gives a bit of the background of the building of the NAH.  

regards

Splendid weathering, Dave. Ex-Dodo looks superb.

 

Despite living here all my life I have little or no knowledge of the South Wales collieries. However,no doubt like many her, the arrival of a Peckett at my door has got me thinking. However, I will be looking to Somerset for my location

 

Outside your period but I thought I would post these images taken in South Wales. I hope you don't mind.

 

Rob.

Is the second photo Hafodyrynys?  

To add to what Philip- Griffith said about the materials used for construction of buildings and structures. In much of the South Wales coalfield, 'Pennant Sandstone' was used for stone-built buildings; unlike the Millstone Grit (which sits below the Lower Coal Measures, and only outcrops around the edges of the coalfield), it occurs between the different strata of the Coal Measures, so that any shaft-sinking work, and much of the exploitation of new faces, would involve removing many tons of it. Rather than just tipping it, it would be used for 'rubble' walling, with only corners and openings in buildings using dressed stone. In some areas, rubble walls might be rendered, in others not; my old primary school, which used stone from the adjacent Castle colliery, was of the unrendered persuasion.

Another material that was found in areas where iron and steel works co-existed with collieries was furnace slag; poured into rough moulds, it would set to form cappings for walls and similar applications. You can see this when heading westward from Swansea High Street, where the line is adjacent to the old Cwmfelin steelworks. 

forgot about the Pennant sandstone.  you can tell I come from the edge of the coalfield. :-)

I think the main thing is for the architecture and landscape to shout south wales before you see any locomotive or wagon.  Clecklewyke by Ian Everett achieves this for Yorkshire.

regards

I'm no expert on the dvisions of Christianity  but I'd like to know whether chapels in South Wales are Weslyan or Baptist Personally I think the Baptist one looks better.

Hi,  neither of these buildings capture the architecture of Welsh chapels.  A good look through google maps street view will give you an idea of what you need. They could be simple or ornate.  

https://goo.gl/maps/PBrnyHu93gu - this is the Baptist Church in Abergavenny.

Around the corner from it is the Presbyterian church - https://goo.gl/maps/kduJ2yu55Cw

Baptists used to be strong in Abergavenny, in my youth there were two congregations. This is where the second congregation used to meet until they merged - https://goo.gl/maps/TsmBxppE9Lt.

Churches could be really simple architecturally - so this is the baptist church in Govilon https://goo.gl/maps/8qumm4WLfT72 - there are some ancestors of mine buried somewhere in that graveyard.  

Finally, this is a former baptist chapel in the valleys - Aberbargoed. Bigger than Govilon, but simple architecturally.

Hope that this helps.  I would not invest in either of the two models you linked to. Your layout is going to have to say South Wales by just looking at it.  Welsh terraces differ from their northern counterparts (they differed across the coalfield too) this is Pontllanfraith where I grew up - https://goo.gl/maps/zSbMTv5ViDw.    Retaining walls were built using dressed stone - https://goo.gl/maps/gX1yueraSuq, locally quarried so often it is millstone grit, but in places it could be devonian red sandstone.  

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

regards

Dear Andy.

Enjoyed reading your posts elsewhere and found this thread interesting. There are not enough Welsh layouts as there should be considering the density and variety of lines. have a look at Ebbw Vale HL as a track and traffic inspiration. It was NW station that had goods, collieries and linked to the steelworks over a long level crossing just beyond the station platform runaround. But you can mix and match. For example the LMS moved ammonia tanks out of ICI in Dowlais, so you could replace the steelworks with that. Cannot think of an MOD installation in the valleys but there may have been one. Cardiff and Bridgend were the big ordnance factories in South Wales and then Glascoed established during WW2.

I've been messing with plans based upon this station for a few years. I have plans somewhere, this is a link to a picture. https://goo.gl/images/bYFrR1

Regards.

I have spent some time analysing locomotive allocations, books, photographic records etc and attached is a list of coal tank locomotives seen at Tredegar.  The numbers represent the old LNWR shed codes before the number/letter codes were introduced.  

Dunn made some mistakes when recording LNWR allocations in his book Reflections on a Railway Career. They are slight, but one/two locos could not have been in South Wales as he recorded.  

regards

AllocationsLNW Coal Tanks 4.pdf

And just a little update on the 7mm side.

 

The turnout has been started for the two sidings against the Merthyr line. Although the line was double track from here to the East junction of the triangle, the inner line was treated as one long siding.

 

I just about had enough 12" sleeper strip to complete this, I made it with just 160mm of a 300mm strip left!!!!!

 

I made up the crossing vee unit, glued it in place after soldering a wire to the unit for polarity switching. I've then fitted the stock rail one side, also attaching a wire underneath the rail for feed purposes.

 

 

Tally 082.jpg

 

I'll get on with the rest of it over this week.

I still haven't weathered that Fruit D, it keeps avoiding the brushes, but not for long.

 

Jinty

Jinty

are you giving yourself enough space for the catch point between the siding and the double-single line cross over?

See http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwp/S2303.htm

regards

Steve and Jintyman.

Thanks for the replies. Steve I may need to find your thread and ask you about Gaer Junction plans.

Regards.

The van looks great.  I have a question.

You have Pontypool Road as the home depot of this toad.  I have also seen this on rtr models.  I would have thought that a different depot would supply brake vans to the trains working through Tallylyn such as Ebbw Junction, Neath or Hereford.  Of course if it was worked to Hereford from Pontypool it could of course have then be used for a working over the Hereford & Hay line to Three Cocks and then on towards Brecon.  

I'm not knowledgeable about this but would be keen to know more as I have an interest in the Taff Vale Extension running west from Pontypool.

regards 

Chris is correct. Page 80 of Tasker The MT&A and Branches. A top light tri composite W 7199 M. Some of the beading is missing. Labelled using BR san serif lettering and 1s on the first class compartments. Unlined.

This is the best I can come up with regarding colour of the front. I recall when the original Tri-ang Hornby pannier came out they got the colour of the front wrong and it was said that the fronts were always black

6433 features in a number of photos in "the Vale of Neath Line" by Jones and Dunstone. All without top feed and the last date being November 1963. It seemed to be the chosen loco for the Hirwaun-Merthyr shuttle. 6437 was also pictured at Hirwaun sans topfeed.

Regards.

Chris,

further to the conversation had on here regarding the look of terraced housing. A recent article about flooding and the loss of lives in Clydach has some excellent photos of terraced housing of different sorts which should give you ideas to back-date the glazing and front doors of your terrace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newyddion/31820927

regards

Philip Griffiths

Do Bachmann have plans to back date the 64xx to a non-top feed version?

Thanks Philip and I agree with your sentiment completely. Next time, perhaps, I should turn left at Cross Keys and drive up the B4251.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

Ah, Chris, that was the old A4048 when I was young.  Last time I went up that road is 'traffic calmed', so they want traffic to Blackwood to go up to Newbridge and across?

A good place to go and observe buildings is St. Fagans.  Also many buildings were rendered on concrete, so for example in my youth this former chapel in Aberbargoed was grey.  https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.69533,-3.2240305,3a,75y,135.56h,90.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMXFf5K1IYY3YEwDCia1aNw!2e0!6m1!1e1

I had forgotten that the terrace opposite was in red brick, but note the standout yellow relief brickwork.  The sandstone for the other houses was more common, but bay-windows if there was a front garden.  This was the street my grandparents lived on so know it well.  The windows in real life tend to be bigger than I see on models. 

regards

Ah Chris, I'm jealous. someone once said that you should be able to name the company that a model railway is based upon with all the rolling stock removed. I would add that you should be able to look outside the railway fence and realise what part of the country has been modelled. The yellow brick and pennant sandstone is so valleys.

Regards. Philip. (Native of the Sirhowy valley)

Should we ask Andy to start a 'Model of the Year' vote?