SC55015

The red now stripe went from being the longer style to the shortest style, now only covering the buffet and corridor/ex-toilet window - not the door. This is SC9001 in October 1983, the best example I could find of that side: On the opposite side, the buffet window - and the main pane on the ex-toilet was now painted rail grey as my earlier post. This is SC9001 in June 1983:

Here is another I found in my own negs. This is SC9001 in Queen Street on April 9, 1983.

Now I've selected the candidate, I've been able to make progress with the model. I added two round no smoking signs. There should be three, but the Hornby model has three triangles when there should only be two. The red stripe was painted on - I have the Railtec transfers but I thought it would be easier to do for the bit over the door. On most vehicles the red stripe started at the halfway point between the buffet and the first passenger window, and this was true when this vehicle was on the ER (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10230917969868684). In that photo it has coachboard brackets, which I haven't seen in images of it on the ScR, so I'm guessing the stripe was shortened when the brackets were removed. On this vehicle the former toilet is distinct in having the main panel in white but the top two smaller panes were not (they'd be dimpled/frosted) so I carefully rubbed of the paint from the inside at the top. The Hornby number under the toilet was removed with kitchen polish. It's left it a bit shiny but it didn't go through the blue. A Railtec number was added under the buffet window. I created a buffet window inset. This was printed on photo paper as its thicker, the coach will have lighting this will avoid light shinning through which normal paper would allow. If a Railtec version is available in the future then I would put it onto plastic instead. Here is the jpeg I used if it is of use to anyone else. You will need to rescale it to suit your printer then crop. The bottom one has a larger 'C' (a per this prototype https://www.flickr.com/photos/140616380@N03/37865693284/in/gallery-bystuart-72157722058569992/) although printed out it is not really noticeable. Studying buffet windows today, I've come to the conclusion that the ones on 9000 and 9001 were not white — but rail grey. The glass has just been painted over on the outside, and it also means the BUFFET stickers are on the outside of the glass. 9001 also has its toilet window painted grey. The third image for comparison shows the other style where the red lettering is on a white board inset behind the glass (in some images packers can clearly be seen). Question - a while back on this thread it was noted that all the BSOTs apart from one ended up on the ScR - does anyone know what that odd one was?

Looking again at these images, the texture of these end panels suggested they have been painted, not laminate which a Commonwealth vehicle should be. Just a point to be wary of if anyone is modelling 9003 as this was could have been done in preservation and may not be the BR colours. 9010 survives on the North-Norfolk Railway and shows was I think was the original interior for the Commonwealth vehicles. https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159519844686554 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10153579706576017 The seat sides are (faded) red in the buffet (original smoking) end and pale green past the lime green partition. Here's the buffet area: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2949878175038932 The same colour scheme is on 9011 on the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Rly: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10154468021529660 The full post shows how they have changed the buffet area: https://www.facebook.com/groups/573173142789869/permalink/1045932388847273/ Another image of interest I found while on FB was this: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10230917969868684 - still carrying its original number after conversion. It would later be 9005. I've finally concluded that my Commonwealth fitted BSOT will be SC9005, pre-ScotRail branding. I have another BSO to convert which be 9015 with ScotRail branding so I cover the early and later eras, SC9005 with white buffet window and 9015 with black.

Thanks, I've added it into my gallery with a few other newly found ones. This was a good find, the first decent shot I've seen of this part of 9000 in its later days:

You may not be wrong, I've also been wondering if vehicles changed window styles. Consider this 1983 image, from which I've added a close up. It's a dual braked/heat vehicle (the two angled pipes above the C1) with scallop vents so 9016 - and the buffet window appears to be the black style. The next image I can find showing that window isn't until 1986 where it is white. To confirm it is 9016 these are the same two coaches added to the London portion when the photographer got off at Tyndrum: https://www.flickr.com/photos/25691226@N07/6491733421/in/gallery-bystuart-72157722081933100/ Note it is Sc9016, not SC9016, at this time!

It would be ideal if he could add that to the BSOT sheet, and the "MICRO-BUFFET' in red seen on some of the white windows would also be great! While I'm still unclear as to what vehicle and what window style mine will be I did do a test with a black window. It was created in photoshop with the Myriad Pro font which seems close enough. Here is a jpg of the file: It's oversized so needs trimming, I seem to also recall printing at several sizes until I got it the size right, sadly I did this using the print dialogue rather than resizing the image in PS. Best thing to do is probably add the the jpg to a word document then gradually make it smaller until it looks right. This was just printed on regular paper, photo paper might make it more refined.

This picture might help clarify my notes on the handrails. The first (from the 9001 image at Cowlairs) is the original full height style. The second is the shorter later style and seems to be identical to the one at the opposite side of the gangway. Third is 9015 - it seemed to have it's own style.

This is 9016 (no window frames, scallop roof vents).

If anyone has the Parkin book there might be a better explanation but here is my take. When Mk1s started to be built there was seen the need for staff to be able to climb onto the roof. So there were the footsteps, a long handrail for the staff to hold onto as the climb up top and a handrail on the roof* to grab as they transitioned from the steps to the roof. There was also a plank above the gangway, this was probably more for stepping from one vehicle to the next to avoid them stepping onto the soft gangway cover. * some BSOTs retained this, some did not. At some point they decided roof access was no longer needed (electrification?). However staff still needed to clamber so far up the end from track level 1) to put on a tail lamp and 2) reset the pass-comm, the 'butterfly' being at cantrail level (this was on the buffet/waterpipe end of a BSOT). Just the lower end step was suffice for this (there was also a step just below the body edge and one on a bracket between that and the track). I'm guessing that this changed happened before the 1963/Commonwealth vehicles were built and there was then no longer the need for the longer handrail on the non-butterfly end so a shorter handrail was used instead, which looks equivalent to the one on the opposite side. Some of the photos also show BR1 bogie vehicles with the shorter handrail, but these vehicles will have passed through works many times so may have had handrails switched. These does seem to be a correlation between those with ridge roof vents (9000/1/15 - long handrails) and scallop vents (all others - short handrails)?

The picture is a little blurry at this corner but it looks like you've removed the handrail from the left side of the footsteps. Apologies if I did not write my original note clear enough - I meant the short handrail on the roof at this end. The plank above the gangway was also removed on mk1s at the same time as the footsteps. At least the side handrail can easily be replaced with wire and will look much better for doing so. The works so far is looking great - much neater than my attempt. I am also not brave enough to do a full repaint. Sadly it's not just the blue that's too dark, the grey is too white when running with Bachmann coaches. At least for my Mk3 sleeper rake (my second BSOT conversion will be 9015 or 9016 for that) I have two Hornby sleepers and Hornby air con Mk2s (TSO and BSO) for the London portion. For the Scottish portion I might have to try and pick up a Hornby TSO or two to go with the BSOT, then at least the full train would match in their wrong colours. Except when it runs with an ETHEL, Aghhh!

An update on where I am at. When I fitted my counter I was able to leave the edge of the seating/table in place, that left plenty of strength in that area: On the counter top I didn't do a trolley cutout. The trolleys were a neat fit into the counters so instead I just made it look like a trolley was there: As mine came with Commonwealth bogies I'm going with a plastic interior, where the seat sides were also covered in laminate. The two saloons were different colours, a lime green in the original non-smoking section, and red for smoking. Mine maybe looks a bit pinkish, I was going for a faded look. The seats are a dark grey for Trojan moquette. By the BSOT era the whole coach was non-smoking, and many vehicles seem to have retained the original triangle non-smoking signs on the original half and round ones on the re-designated half. The Hornby model comes with the triangle ones and will need the round ones adding to the other end. I should be getting a delivery of resistors today so I can progress the lighting, and transfers have now been ordered from Railtec - they'll take a week or so to reach this part of the world.

Associated with the footsteps is the handrail on the brake end of the roof which allowed staff to haul themselves from the footsteps onto the roof, this was often removed too. It was only fitted at that end as the water pipes served the purpose at the other end. And the two periscopes above the van were also removed long before the BSOT era.

Oops! Sorry about that. Here's a June 1988 image, still on BR1s: 9015 and 9016 are easy to tell apart (on this side), 15 had a black buffet window and 16 had a white one. 9015 seems to still have had the BR1s when it arrived it Swanage judging by this picture: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10226923104416622&set=gm.6039620729478389&idorvanity=573173142789869 My conversion stalled somewhat by spending a lot of my modelling time on research. This was a test to see how the height of the counter might look: Noting a previous comment about how little of the internal conversion will be visible, I thought some lights might help. I've never fitted coach lighting before, so that is leading me down another path that is requiring research. The second image shows a test with a coach lighting strip bought from ebay and I'm now working on modifying that.

But note that the only images I've been able to find of vehicles on the WHL behind 37/4s are 9015 or 9016. I did find a couple of 9007 in use at Inverness behind 37/4s in summer 1986 but that was all. To complement the WHL gallery I started an Inverness one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bystuart/galleries/72157722058732082/ And one for other place: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bystuart/galleries/72157722058569992/ In the latter it is notable that 9000/1 seemed to spend summer 1986 working out of Waverley mainly on the Dundee circuits, I haven't found images of either on the WHL after 1985.

9015 is on Commonwealths now in preservation - but it seemed to run at least until August 1988 on BR1s. This is 9015 that month:

The interior pics I'd posted on here previously were scans of the prints, I've dug the negatives out and scanned those. They are never going to be perfect as they were just taken with a compact camera, but I have now been able to identify the vehicles. Surprise surprise, being 1986 - they are 9015 and 9016. Apologies for reposting them again, it's easier to explain why. There were two pairs of BSOT images on the film, images of events in between show they were separated by a few months. The first pair were taken circa May 1986 which was when I started as a buffet steward on the line. The wood finished passenger accommodation narrows it to four vehicles: 9000/1/15/16. We know that 9000 had blue paneling in the buffet area so we can rule that out, and I'm going to presume that 9001 was similar so that leaves 15 or 16. The second pair were taken circa September 1986. Again, we can see it has the wooden passenger saloon. There are enough differences to show they are two different vehicles: the seat moquette, the vent above the door to the vestibule, the window timber surround (on the big window) is brown on one (above) and black on the other (below - the seat sides have also been painted black). So looking at exterior views 9016 can be seen to have Trojan moquette (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/nedchester/5535786850/) which means the above two are 9015 and the pair below are 9016.

Did their demise on the WHL - other than 9015 + 9016 - come earlier than that, when the 37/4s took over (circa 1986) ? If all the others were only steam heat then that would just leave two useable vehicles.

Here is the public timetable from May 1982. All the trains in and out of Glasgow are shown as having a buffet service except the last Oban service and the return working in the morning. It was the same in May 1983, the May 1984 timetable had a buffet service on those trains. These of course just show whether they would be manned or not - not whether there would be a BSOT in the rake. Regardless of whether there was a scheduled buffet service - it'd didn't mean there'd be a BSOT either. if there wasn't the buffet staff would commandeer a compartment to work from, normally the one nearest the brake van.

I found some scans of the early Platform 5 Coaching stock books which show the evolution of the vehicles in those early years. This is from the 2nd edition, dated as correct to 1 January 1980: Note were seems to have been seven ER conversions done before 9001. Does this mean that the numbering does not strictly match the conversion sequence? I can see the logic to separate those two when allocating numbers and it was obviously not known then that 15/16 would be from that same lot. The third edition as at 22 January 1981: Note 9000/1 have disappeared! The next edition is dated as 13 January 1982. Underlines are obviously sightings, score-throughs (or highlights on the last scans) were ones I travelled on. And the last one I have is dated 27 November 1982: Interesting that 15/16 were the only two with dual heat and dual brakes, the rest were steam heat/vacuum brakes only.

My research continues on the individual vehicles so I can find a suitable candidate for my model. For my conversion I've went with the cream partitions and orange counter as shown in my interior images so I need to know more about which vehicles had that style. Today I tried searching for images of 9011 on the Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway. From https://www.alamy.de/stockfoto-embsay-und-bolton-abbey-bahnhof-buffet-auto-mit-der-bahn-stationsgebaude-spiegelung-im-fenster-145439033.html came this: You cannot really see inside because of the reflection - the reflection was probably the main point of the image - but I just wanted to note that the coloured strips on the top and bottom of these 'buffet bars' are orange (see the rear side on the interior images) - they seem to be red on the railtech sheet. Next I found this image (from https://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/your-visit/food-drink). I stared at it for quite a while trying to decide whether it could be a BSOT: Then I found this one which confirms it is 9011: Although heavily converted since BR days, the cream partitions and faint pattern on the side walls styling match my interior pics (although the vent above the door is a different style). It is from https://steammemories.blogspot.com/2015/09/yorkshire-dales-railway-catering-on-our.html and they had another view further back at https://steammemories.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-buffet-car-is-always-popular.html which hinted at the more modern interior seen in the 9003 images from the Dean Forest:

Another little thing - 9015 and 9016 seem to be the only two that retained the original style of windows (no frames). All others seem to have frames. Add to that that 9015 had ridge roof vents, 9016 had scallop ones, then these two are 9016:

I'm pretty sure that this is 9000, it seems to be the only one that still the letter holders in place. It confirms that the blue laminate in the Peak Rail images are from the original conversion. I started a new BSOT flickr gallery concentrating only on the WHL conversions: https://flickr.com/photos/bystuart/galleries/72157722081933100/ This was a useful one I came across of 9001, there are a few images where the vehicle had a blue band on a white window and this was the only one I could identify the vehicle, and it no longer has the red over three windows: There is a list on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_Standard_Open_(Micro-Buffet)) of the vehicles and the four 1956 builds match the four with BR1 bogies. It shows eight of the eighteen are preserved so there is the potential for more interior images. After looking through so many images it seems pretty certain that only 9000 and 9001 had the red stripe over three windows in the initial period after conversion. On the non-counter side they had one distinct difference (other than letter holders), the top panel of the very right window on 9000 was white, 9001 was not: This means that the following are very likely to be 9000:

Maybe they weren't all parallel after all! I found these images on flickr (by Hugh Llewelyn) of 9377 - once 9003 - on the Dean Forest.

As far as I remember they all had the trolley cut-out. If it were just a flat top anything sitting on top would just slide off. And there was nothing added to the conversions for supply of hot water for the teas and coffees - that came from the trolley.