Ross Burgess

Bump.... Hi folk - in trouble with ECoS again... but I hold high hopes and confidence that someone in here holds the silver bullet cure and is willing to share. I'm a newb with DCC - be the first to put my hand up, so patience please... I have the second edition ECoS - have updated firmware to the latest version. I also have Lokprogrammer and have updated firmware in that as well.... All my equipment is ESU... everything, except one keep alive unit in a recently purchased little steam loco - which is turned off - as instructed when programming - Loco runs fine on my shelf layout without it - so, to prevent damage - just running "cold" with the K/A in this loco kept off. I have ESU K/A units in other loco's which should be fine when programming... Now to the issue.... This new loco has a Loksound 5 DCC decoder in it.... the files were written by DCC-sound. (Oz).. loaded into the decoder at the factory. In default - the motor speed control is set to 3 point (I beleive to satisfy NRMA standard).. Using Lokprogrammer - the loco runs absolutely fine... everything works as it should. However, when added into ECoS... I cannot run this loco slowly, it stops abruptly as the model slows for a stop.. and "lurches" into a scale speed of around 5 mph when first opening the throttle...... but - using Lokprogrammer, it will do all of this perfectly. When I added the loco into ECoS... it did it all automatically.... brought up the decoder on a entry page.. I had to change the address to a number in excess of 1000 to satisfy my fleet... but that's all I did... If I place the loco back onto a short test track with Lokprogrammer - it's fine... but not when using ECoS. I'd be keen to learn of anything I haven't done.. or need to do to overcome this running issue... My guess (from what I have read above) - is that when using Lokprogrammer, it uses a generic address for the loco... and it's within this that probably holds the answer as to why ECoS has issues with some form of protocol or address recognition. I don't know if the security embedded into these files makes it impossible for programmers to read the info... but I cannot "see" or read the sound files... using Lokprogrammer - the report comes up as "no sound file found".... I know they are in there, for everything works.. but I can't see the files and Lokprogrammer can't "read" them when the little green read sound file icon is selected... My question concerns ECoS not being able to run this loco slowly, and the abrupt start/stop operation using the cab control throttle.... Hope some of this makes sense?... much appreciated, frats, Rosco

Hi Neil... likewise, during my saga on which I have just posted "Tolstoys'" equivalent of W&P... I have had what you "enjoyed" with the reversal of points as opposed to what is shown in ECoS... further, I have also had ECoS trip the short circuit breaker when one set was not in the correct position... yet reported on the track diagram as being so..... I found that pressing the "stop" button and manually throwing the servo arm, then powering up again rectified it. I also found that when it reported points as being reversed, I powered down altogether then reset the points manually.... and powered up.... this rectified everything (basically a reboot). I believe ECoS gets into a tantrum when things don't go according to its liking.... and I go through a set of shorts tripping events when there is nothing at all to cause them.... I simply set all points on the layout for "normal" and do likewise with ECoS in "stop" mode.... power off, reboot - and ECoS comes back believing it's back in charge..... I have had servo "jigger" a couple of times as well... again, power off and reset points... re-boot and power up... all good...... Perhaps ESU are yet to make further revisions to the software.... the more we complain about such events - the louder our voices will be heard. For the main, it's a great system... but, it has a way to go yet before it reaches potential - and I believe it's within the software of the very expensive componentry that has to be updated..... a great system, and which protects the huge investement placed in not only ESU hardware.. but also the decoders and expensive loco's/rolling stock that many have on their layouts.... Compared to the very early Hornby Zero 1.... this is eons ahead.... it works, but it still has its quirks... Thanks Neil, I hope what I post is helpful to the forum... I spent quite a few nights when sleep did not come to me with this wiring/connection failure of "logic" to finally be resolved.... frats, Rosco

So here we are - at the start of a week long conquest to both understand the author of ESU documentation - and to actually get some result from Extension.... which worked! I studied and studied the documentation - both hard and electronic on line copies... and the only diagram made it look easy - sadly, following it did not work!... that needs to be re-written. I was further shocked to note that not one other soul has posted up on wiring up Extension for the purpose of frog isolation... The promising wording from ESU was that "Extension" made it simple for doing this - nothing could be further from fact... it was darned complicated and perplexing... taking a number of days with a multi-meter to work out what was coming out of the terminals. Following the diagram and wording... the "logic" was that you simply connected the "com" terminal to your frog - and used terminal 1 for one point direction, terminal 2 for the other.... no matter how many times I did this, I could only get power from either - not both with the changing of servo position.... no explanation of this.... and nothing on the diagram ..... suggesting to use terminal one and two for servo 1..... So, without going into great detail of the days spent sorting this out... I'll reveal what I found to work... Firstly, we need to look at the double crossover... which was modified to permit DCC without tripping short circuit sensitivety. We can see in the above pic, there are four isolated frogs in the cente of the double crossover - the factory Shinohara unit was disected four times and "jumpers" were inserted. The point blades were all removed and jumpers soldered to those. The tie bars were removed and soldered to circuit board material - removing the electrically connection part of the copper pads...... The riveted point blade joiners removed with their tie bars and n/s track joiners fitted in place.... effectively isolating all rails from each other.... and soldering in jumpers for the needed connections in service.... this all worked fine... until we came to adding ESU to power the frogs.... read on..... Following the diagram and instructions, for the life of me I could not get the simplistic diagram connections to work in unison... I could get "either" but not "both".... I had all four sets of points in this crossover working "either" in non-diverge..... or, diverge..... needing to re-connect to terminals to get either.. but not by working the servo's through ECoS.... it was dead in one direction at all four sets of points.. and powered in the other... My multimeter wasn't as good on AC as it is in DC..... and I "got" voltage, but only at about 3 to 5 v AC..... on the "dead" terminals.. confusing the heck out of me even further.... So - what the heck was going on?... was it ECoS, Switch Pilot Servo, Extension... or my modified Shinohara double crossover - I believe you can start to appreciate this tail chasing drama as it played out.... I re-read and re-read the manuals, instructions and looked for anything on line which may have given any inkling as to what or how to remedy this... nothing, save some poor soul who seemed to like to promote his intelligence and ability with Extension by wiring up some function on a water tower .... which had nothing to do with wiring or connecting up points from Extension, as his title suggested... I was about to fire off a very stern complaint to ESU, when I stumbled onto something in their documentation - well hidden in the many pages and pages that you continually flip to and from as they tell you to "see chapter xyz".. and come back for more of the spiel... I stumbled onto the positions of the servos from Switch PIlot Servo.... in that they instructed to use the "B" set of terminals with outputs 1 and 2 for power.. this did not work - power came out of one of them, but throwing the servo did not produce power from the other terminal..... I believe many would simply have given up by now.... What I did stumble onto that brought success - was to "chance" using BOTH "A" and "B" sets of paired terminals... Now, this might be quite apparent to those in this forum who have come up through the ages and ranks... but not to a newbie - more so, one who is being led by the manufacturers' own documentation - which does NOT state to use both sets..... but DOES state to use both terminals of the one set (which does not work - as I have posted in the above). I happened to connect up one of the frog supplies to one terminal of the A set.... and the other to the B set... using terminal 1 of the A, and terminal 2 of the B.... but, there was a further issue - I needed to make a "link" between the two "Com"s... or the one not connected did not supply power to the frog... simple?... not so for me, I'm afraid.. but, I got there.... So, what we see is the underside of my shelf layout under the double crossover - we see Switch Pilot Servo with Extension fitted for the first four servos (of eight)... and the necessary wiring connections to go to the four frogs of the double crossover... The pic is not very clear - apologies... but you should be able to follow the connections. For example, if we look at the left unit (Extension) - on the top, we can see "Servo" outputs for numbers 4 and 3 servo's. We can see for both of these, there are three terminals at two outputs........ a "1", "com" and "2" for each side. We can then see, for for servo "4"...... I have connected both "Com" terminals with a common link....... and this goes to the frog (green leads).... We can see at the pair of terminals "B" (on the left)... that I have connected my black lead for this frog to terminal 2 of this pair... which is the "diverge" point direction. Teminal 1 is not used.. and does not supply power when the servo is reversed. We can see at the pair of terminals "A" (on the right of servo 4), I have connected my red lead for this servo frog to terminal 1 of this pair..... which is when this set of points are laying for the straight....... Again, the "Com" (green) leads needed to be "linked" so that both the red and black leads produced the required "curcuit".... I won't go into detail for the remaining servo's.. but, those on the adjacent sets of points - that is, set 2 opposite set 1.. the connections had to be reversed - because of the orientation of them in the cross-over.... All four sets of points are now working.. the frogs are powered as they should be..... and the terminals which the instructions stated were to be used for opposite polarity are not used.... nothing comes out of them when the servo of Switch Pilot servo is reversed..... Now for the tricky bit - up until now, I believed I had it all working perfectly - until I ran a loco through the points.. and they tripped ECoS in two of the four movements.... through the frogs. My multimeter did not show one issue......and I was just about to pull the entire lot out and replace the double crossover with four sets of Peco insulfrog points (whicn work perfectly with Switch Pilot servo - currently in use with servo numbers 5 - 8).... I persevered... both with power to the frogs, and testing with ECoS disconnected... I could not fault my modification to the Shinohara points... nor my wiring to ECoS via Switch Pilot and Extension.... but I did find that all four sets of points in this double crossover had to be Either in "normal" or "reversed" direction.. or they would short.... sadly, this wasn't the culprit for two of the four diverge movements... I connected up a multi-meter to the bogie of the loco... and hand pushed it through without ECoS connected nor any power to it from Extension... and bingo - it shorted in the two directions.... reversing the loco orientation resulted in the same tripping... So - "what" was the issue - and this needs to be added to the modification of the Shinohara double crossover...... There are two sets of rail heads which are "just" proud enough for the "tyre" of one wheel to make contact with whilst the opposing rear tyre of the wheel on the trailing bogie is "just" making contact with the diagonally opposite rail head of a conflicting frog.... and there is was.... but, not on the opposite pair of frogs..... I have temporarily remedied this by placing modelling masking tape over the rail heads at these locations.. but need help/advice here on what can be done to make this permanent - without attracting dirt and causing issues with contaminating wheels/pickups.. so, help here please... ! There was yet another little pair of players to present their ugly faces to this episode, it wasn't done with me yet... It took a strong magnifying glass and a bright LED light to find them - but I did.... and the flange of the same pair of diagonally opposing wheels in opposite bogies were shorting out..even with masking tape on the rail-heads.... If anyone has one of these cross-overs... what I "found" was there is a very miniscule little piece of n/s which is in the flangeway... from underneath - which for some strange reason - passes through and presents themselves in the flangeway..... DCC, more specifically ECoS... is micro-micro-sensitive to shorts.... and the nano-second that the flange passed over both these two manufacturing defects (sorry Mr Shinohara)... was enough to trip ECoS.... again, masking tape into the flangeway... and my loco runs perfectly through every direction in this first series Shinohara double crossover - modified to the letter of instruction... I do very much hope this prevents anyone contemplating Extension, either in combination with - or as an aside to Shinohara double crossover - the perplexed frustration at ECoS tripping out.... My opinion is that ESU should update their documentation - so that it clearly explains that with the use of servo's for point operation - more specifically, when used in conjunction with Extension for supplying power to the frogs - that the opposing pair of outputs (A and B) are to be connected for each servo position.... not as they currently (excuse pun) state to use "one" pair of terminals.. and which is shown in the only diagram they provide for this installation.. it is wrong, and needs urgent correction.... it must state to use teminal 1 of one of the pair, and terminal 2 of the other.... and that the frog also must be wired common to both pairs....... or the circuit is not made.... I am extremely happy and satisfied with the manufacturer's products.. to me, they are the Rolls-Royce of DCC. and I have relied on them being pretty much "plug and play"... sadly, as you have read in the above - such is very much not the case of "plug and play" when it comes to adding Extension to Switch Pilot Servo... Hope this helps, folk.... frats, Rosco

Bump again - I do hope some folk are appreciating my path through this troublesome entry level into DCC with ESU and their products? So, we have the Switch Pilot Servo decoder/ESU ECoS issue sorted... As it turns out, Switch Pilot Servo has to be in "programming mode" for ECoS to update its own programming - no mention of this. I found that I had to check the little toolbox in the ECoS page for turnouts ( hate the expression "switches" - I found it very confusing). I also found out that the decoder had to be in programming mode at the same time... although there is absolutely no response from ECoS that it is actually "receiving" anything... it just goes in behind the "iron curtain"... Once the decoder has been left idle for more than a couple of minutes, it defaults to the "sleeping" mode... and pages through a pair of "dormant" screens..... So, I eventually got all 8 of the servo's working... then decided to add Extension to it - for the purpose of supplying power to the isolated frogs in a DCC modified double crossover I wanted central in my shelf layout... wow! were there some problems in connecting Extension to it.... next post.. frats, Rosco

Bump - from a newbie to this forum. I have ECoS 2 and Switch Pilot Servo (8 servos). I am in all sorts of trouble getting ECoS to connect up with Switch Pilot Servo. I have had some success, but seem to have created more issues when attempting to program my servos using the programming buttons on Switch Pilot - ECoS operates some of them but not others. There is barely anything entered into ECoS as yet... three loco decoders and that's it... and now, this switch pilot servo decoder. I am able to operate six of the eight servo slots in switch pilot from the decoder itself.... I have successfully set end points and travel speed - all servo's work fine from Switch PIlot servo. But, ECoS struggles with two of the servo's.... namely #1 and #5... the first of each string of four on the two programming lines of Switch Pilot. I did have #1 working from ECoS for a short time - then lost it. #5 will not respond at all from ECoS - but will operate fully from Switch Pilot buttons. All six fitted servo's are "live" when ECoS is fired up.... the position they are set at is under constant monitoring and the points cannot be moved at all manually by hand.... I have connected Switch Pilot Servo to the Main - and am using POM on ECoS to attempt to make communication and programming. I do not know if there is something I have not done which puts ECoS into some "receptive" programming mode from Switch Pilot Servo? I have 16.5 v at Switch Pilot Servo.... originally, I had a separate power supply of 12v - but this was too low for Switch Pilot Servo to function at all... I connected Switch Pilot Sevo to ECoS through the main track bus. I have added jumper leads to Switch Pilot Servo power supply and bridged them to the main track bus terminals - as suggested for a small layout (mine is a shelf layout). I have read, re-read and read again through both ECoS and Switch Pilot Servo manuals - and so far found nothing which explains why #1 and #5 servos cannot be operated from ECoS.... I doubt very much that they are in conflict with some other address.. I have not seen a "!" mark come up at any time. My next attempt will be to set Switch Pilot Servo addresses up to the third and fourth address lines... just in case there is some conflict with addresses for #1 and #5 servo's... I am at a loss to explain anything further - and ask the forum if anyone has had similar issues between Switch Pilot Servo (8) and ECoS 2? frats, Rosco