Montreux_1991
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Posts posted by Montreux_1991
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Recently received from Shapeways:
In front, an MGN Bhe2/4 - by Swiss Z scale models, and I assume the basis of the proposed AB-Modell ready to run offering - printed in one sturdy piece.
Behind, both cars of an MOB ABDe8/8 - by TT Trams - with separately printed roofs and slightly distorted / in need of a sturdy sub-structure.
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34 minutes ago, MOB 2002 said:
Taking the bogie frames off, I think they’re all split, but only one seems to be binding. Might attempt a little bit of gentle attention with a file first, just to see if it will get a rough mesh and to see if there’s anything else wrong.I can’t fault the accuracy of all this though - clearly buying secondhand V200s is fraught with problems!
Mark
At least the prototypes worked some of the time, I saw them hauling ballast trains in 1991…-
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3 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:
The second hand ex DB Am4/4 was not one of the SBB’s finest moments, but nevertheless I’ve been looking out for one as part of the stock collecting for my new layout.
This is the Roco version and it looks great. However, true to the original, it doesn’t really work! I’ve only investigated quickly and it seems to be a problem somewhere in the gear train within one of the bogies. My current explorations have only succeeded in making it worse so far, but I’ll have another go again shortly.
If all else fails, it’ll look lovely sat in a siding awaiting attention, just like the real thing!
Mark
Mine had Farish-style split gears on at least one of the powered axles. I found replacement wheelsets on Ebay.de and the actual repair was straightforward.Subsequently sold, but I still have a ‘dead’ Minitrix 12518 and a DCC sound-fitted donor loco somewhere...
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Unclip the roof, then attack the eight retaining lugs (four each side) with a flat screwdriver, hoping you don't break anything.
Then - while you're at it - replace the bogies?
Minitrix SBB RIC EC: Tieferlegung mit korrekten Drehgestellen - Rollmaterial - spur-N-schweiz Forum
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On 09/03/2024 at 13:22, MOB 2002 said:
This is technically Italian stock … but very definitely for a Swiss layout - so only partial apologies. I’ve picked up a trio of Fleischmann UIC carriages in FS liver and grey livery.
Now I know they’re less accurate than ideal, particularly around the roof, but the scarcity of vehicles in that livery and the mix and match nature of stock during the era I’m modelling still made a purchase fairly desirable.
I also knew in advance that the Fleischmann UIC stock rides high - but I don’t think I was quite prepared for how high!
In reality the cant rail of the FS UIC is higher than the SBB equivalent on the right. But not that much higher. Has anyone successfully lowered the overall ride height of a Fleischmann UIC?
MarkFrom memory - having bought and rejected the older Fleischmann UIC-X a couple of years ago - most of the excess height was due to (1) overall height of the bogies above the wheel bearings and (2) height of the lower body framing, which is painted dark grey in the photos above.
And what's your source for the difference in cant rail height? I'd assume the contrary, that UIC-X coaches and their Swiss cousins would be very similar in their use of the loading gauge, and most differences between models are due to one manufacturer (or both) getting it wrong.
Fleischmann know they got this wrong: the 'Neukonstruktion 2020' UIC-X coaches are marketed as having prototypically correct buffer height. Buffer and body height both compare favourably to my preferred reference, the Roco Eurofima:
Comparing to your reference:
The 'Neukonstruction 2020' model has been announced in FS grey (863960/1/2) but the release date has now slipped to 2025.
For liver red and grey the 'modern' options with flush glazing are Arnold, ACME and Minitrix, but all have their issues...
Arnold - too short, including the window openings which are only 5.5mm tall. My examples of HN4317 were also banana-shaped. The photo below shows HN 4265-3 but it's the same moulding:
ACME - quite pretty in photos (although I think they went too far the other way with 6.25mm tall window openings) but the body mouldings are too thin to hold their shape and they also wobble and lean on their bogies:
Minitrix - too tall, but it's all in the bogies so I've stockpiled some dark grey bogies from Roco 24264 donor carriages. Also Minitrix only produced the 11-compartment couchette moulding in this livery, even though one of the models is supposed to be a composite:
All very frustrating!
If you're interested, prototype notes and a comprehensive (2013, pre-ACME) review of N gauge models can be found and translated here:
Carrozze UIC-X – parte terza: le sei serie italiane originali | scalaeNNe - Note Sparse (Treni, Ferrovie e loro modellazione in Scala N) (wordpress.com)-
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7 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:
In response to the original question on this thread (appreciating that it was a while ago) I can thoroughly recommend the albums of Werner and Hans-Jorg Brutzer on Flickr, where you will find these five photos and about a million others. (edit: sorry for the exaggeration, the Brutzer albums contain only about a quarter of a million train photos!)
To be fair, there are only about 1000 photos of Re460s, in these albums:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/albums/72157697407081361/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/albums/72157671185315168/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/albums/72157669142901437/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/albums/72157671185509448/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/albums/72157629845403314/
There is similar coverage for other classes should you be interested!
Also worth remembering / noting: between July 1993 (approximately 50 locomotives delivered) and November 1994 (approximately 100 locomotives delivered) due to poor reliability Re 460 were banned from IC services on the Geneva - Zurich main line, and many were used on goods and secondary services instead.
LOKI spezial 6 'Die Simplon-Linie' shows Re 460s (on the front cover) hauling a mixed freight past Chillon, and (inside) hauling a goods train of mostly 4-wheel vans near Sion...
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On 22/01/2024 at 21:25, MOB 2002 said:
Hobbytrain and other Lemke brands 2024 announcements have appeared. Actually the most disappointing yet - one extra livery for the already close Re4/4 IVs while all references to the Bpm carriages have vanished.
https://lemkecollection.de/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Lemke-Neuheiten-2024.pdf
On the plus side, I think my travel budget for 2024 has grown substantially in these last couple of weeks!
Mark
On the other hand...
Pirata have announced two 'IC Lemano' sets: three Gran Confort coaches, and three handmade 'metal' Eurofima 2nd class. These are Art. 6193 and Art. 6194 respectively on the Pirata website, or the other way round in the 'Novita 2024' pdf.
The previously announced FS 1983 restaurant car with ribbed roof (in the 'Benedetto Croce' set Art. 6160) now has a ribbed roof in the catalogue photo, although this could just be a photomontage.
The previously announced 'metal' UIC-Z1 coaches in 1980s livery are are still represented by photos of the Arnold model.
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21 hours ago, Gordonwis said:
Photo montages - so no guarantees yet ! However it would be pretty poor if the marketing people hadn't woken up to the shape inaccuracies of the previous 'brand new' Re4/4II (and also perhaps an 'egg on face ' admission that they spent loads a money on a duff model)
An interesting thing in the 'inset blow up' images is what looks like a raised FFS lettering
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I’m no longer sure the 2013 Re 4/4 tooling was all-new. It was initially exciting to find that spare glazing units, despite better colour choices and separately applied windscreen wipers, exactly fitted my existing models, but perhaps this was telling me (if I would only listen) that the original body tooling had been modified rather than scrapped.
Perhaps this year we'll get an a new body and glazing but with many detail parts carried over from 2013 or from the Re6/6?
And I’m not sure I understand what Fleischmann are thinking with the Cisalpino. The prototype illustration on page 47 features SBB Apm coaches (presumably on the Geneva-Milan route, between Veytaux-Chillon and Villeneuve) whereas the model photos suggest an FS first, using the ex-Roco Eurofima with no attempt to modify the roof moulding, and a brand new SBB Bpm incorrectly riding on Eurofima bogies...
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Picking up a few comments on the Arnold BLS Re 4/4:
Excess width is a longstanding problem in N gauge – not least on steam engines with (inevitably overscale) outside cylinders and valve gear.
Arnold (BLS) and Fleischmann (SBB) Re 4/4s are both around 19.5mm wide. On the Fleischmann, most of the excess width seems to be in one place – the rounded ‘cab corner’ windows – making it obvious now I know what to look for. I’m not sure the Arnold is so obvious.
That said, earlier Arnold production looked so bad (black plastic windows being a particular low point) that I’m surprised Lemaco never tried their luck in brass. As already noted by Frutigen, the model was reissued around ten years ago (HNS 2238 / 2239 /2240) with clear glazing, interior detail and improved finish. I assume this year’s models will have sound-related chassis modifications but no further changes to the bodyshell.
For a replacement chassis I’d look no further than the (split frame, smooth-running) Hobbytrain SBB Re 4/4. If you’re not fussy about livery, complete brand-new models can usually be found on ebay.de from around EUR 125.
I’m also puzzled by comments (on this thread and the recent ‘Ae 4/4 being winched’ thread) that BLS Ae 4/4 and Re 4/4 look similar. Doesn’t everyone just look at the cab window frames?
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2 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:
Not so great for the rolling stock to go with the Italian motive power though! It looks like slate grey UIC’s and C1 liveried Eurofimas will appear again, but good luck trying to get hold of liver and grey UIC carriages … and please nobody mention full brakes! From what I’ve seen the 2023 releases of Italian coaching stock has sold out almost before it’s hit the shelves.
The Lima NPZ was a frustratingly good model for its time. I can only assume the fact most recent liveries would require the tooling of a new centre car has ruled it out. Good second hand ones still often go at around the £150 mark even with the prehistoric Lima EWI.Mark
Livery application has always struck me as the weakest point of the Lima NPZ - the shame is that Arnold re-issued centre cars (3256/7/8) in the 1990s with plug doors, close coupling and a much sharper finish, but didn't reissue the NPZ. Adding insult to injury, they used a ‘paler than Lima’ shade of yellow for the doors.
Even today, a sharp coat of paint (plus - ideally - upgraded bogies and pantographs) would make a fine model, assuming the tooling remains usable.
I wish I could say the same for the Arnold UIC-X coaches. Or pretty much any of the alternatives, for one reason or another…
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Next up: Arnold
2024 looks like a great year for Italian motive power (D445, E646 and ETR1000) but the only new Swiss items are BLS re4/4s (161, 173 and 192, with or without sound) and two Epoch II Edelweiss-Pullman coach sets.
It's now 33 years and counting since the Lima NPZ was last produced. Does this mean Arnold / Hornby don't have usable tooling?
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On 31/12/2023 at 13:17, MOB 2002 said:
Can’t help but think they’d have done better by packaging up the Bdt with some SBB EWI’s all in NPZ livery. Surely the market for BLS driving trailers is fairly well catered for by Hobbytrain right now?
Still, I suppose it does mean that we are finally seeing the Bdt without it being essential to buy an Rbe4/4 too.
Mark
Perhaps someone at Piko had been watching Youtube and thought they could crash Hobbytrain's party?
► Abschied von den BLS EW I Wagen (youtube.com)
These won't be cheap - Menzels Lokschuppen have pre-listed the two-car 'Bdt plus B' set and the three-car set at 190 EUR each - but for my money (having one of each in my collection) the Piko Bdt is a better model than the Hobbytrain driving trailer, and likely to 'go' better with the Piko coaches.
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Looks like Piko are first out of the blocks this year.
With one locomotive:
Two coach sets:
And one wagon:
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I remember walking my employer’s Chien Bernois on the Quai Des Fleurs, and being ID checked at 1am (on a night off) by the police, between Vevey and Montreux.
In railway terms, lakeside settings make me think of smaller stations (Territet and Veytaux-Chillon on the Quai Des Fleurs, or Rivaz and St Saphorin in the Lavaux vineyards) whereas the larger stations with more developed track plans tend to be further inland. I’ll be watching this space to see how you blend the two…
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To which (the wish for an up to scratch EWII D) I'd add - please let it be Piko and please change the usual release schedule so the 'old logo' version comes out first...
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It's impressive - and currently for sale.
I know what you mean about glimpses of trains. My room isn't ready yet for 'Montreux station on one 2.4m baseboard' but I plan to leave myself considerable flexibility on the final placement of buildings and the final levels / sight lines at the front of the layout. In particular, the layout will have to be deep enough to follow the sweeping curve of Avenue Des Alpes (away from the railway, requiring more depth and building construction) giving a view across rooftops, but with the option of cutting back to Rue de la Rouvenettaz, from which I accessed the end of the 'direction Lausanne' platform so many times...
Hugh
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The road layout doesn’t look right to me – in particular where it crosses four tracks on the level. The only level crossing I remember (Montreux) crossed the station throat just before two tracks became three:
And was replaced (circa 1996) by this:
Also have you considered / looked at Villeneuve? In 1:1 scale, the open nature of the site made this a better place than Montreux to watch mainline trains go by, and in model form it could use ‘flat’ baseboards and fewer structures than the ‘town centre’ stations (Vevey, Montreux) you’ve previously referred to. A few years ago I looked at fitting Villeneuve onto a single 2.4m long baseboard, modelling from the overbridges at the Lausanne end to Route de la Tour Rouge at the Brig end. There are vines and conifers (!) behind the railway and most ‘essential’ buildings would be in a view-blocking cluster at the Brig end – behind the railway a locomotive shed (housing a shunting locomotive for the adjacent ballast yard) and possibly 1 and 3 Route de la Tour Rouge, and in front of the railway a church, station building and post-war block of shops and flats.
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For anyone with an unrebuilt (wooden-bodied) SBB De4/4 on their wish-list, this will be of interest:
https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2023/11/25/sbb-de-4-4-di-lo-co
Incidentally (for those not already familiar with it) the ‘scalaeNNe – Note Sparse’ website has hugely detailed articles on FS rolling stock, and others including TEE stock and Eurofima livery. All in Italian but very readable with Google Translate.
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This reminds me of the Fleischmann UIC-X coaches in FS rosso fegato (liver red) livery, for example 811104.
Digital printing done badly?
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15 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:
I could have miscounted slightly, but https://gerberro.ch/eisenbahn/zugbildungen definitely shows the 8.39pm from Geneva Airport to Brig in the 1989/90 timetable booked for 20 carriages. I totally agree though, I’m amazed that it fitted into all of the platforms it’s apparently booked to call at.
Mark
On Google Maps, the platforms at Montreux look to be about 400m long. They would have been a little shorter before removal (in the 1990s) of the level crossing at the Lausanne end of the station.
In the early 1990s, most ‘Direct’ services stopping at Montreux comprised four second class / two first class / one EWII brake, with or without additional coaches. My (possibly over-simplified) impression was of quite uniform sets – all EWIV, all old logo, all new logo or all comfort stripe – with occasional ‘swaps’ such as EWIV or RIC firsts with EWI and EWII seconds, and less uniform additional coaches.
I took this photo in 1991 to remind me of a ‘typical’ train formation:
And I took these photos in 1996 (or Spring 1997, I no longer remember) intending one day to cross-reference the formations against my pocket timetable:
In model form, subject to non-availability of a decent EWII brake, I have the four sets noted above and plan to mix-and-match with ‘add-on sets’ of composite / third / third, first / third / third and sleeper / couchette / couchette. With unlimited space I’d allow a maximum train length of 13 coaches (one set plus two add-ons) but I’m planning for 10 coaches, worst case 1.65 metres.
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23 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:
So, this is slowly (very slowly) turning from an idea into an 18ft by 2ft 6in layout. In between reorganising the garage to make space I’ve been working on a suitable track plan that can feature a station inspired by a blend of Montreux, Vevey and possibly a touch of Aigle, plus a section of lakeside running with a diverging branch up through vineyards.
I’ve also been acquiring suitable stock whenever the opportunity arose. Today a pair of Arnold FS ‘Z1’ arrived.
Overall, I think they’re quite decent - the only real frustration is that the bodyside grille and destination panel holder are printed detail rather than moulded.
Judging by the fact I managed to get the last pair from Gaugemaster and the main Arnold website is showing ‘last few’ they must have sold well still.
MarkI got mine from Scograil (consistently cheaper than Gaugemaster) and have also pre-ordered HN4393, the 3-car set in Brigrigio livery.
But I still have the same 'mixed' response as I did to the original Arnold models with 380x catalogue numbers: they're slightly taller overall than Roco Eurofimas, the windows are too tall and square and there's something about the fit of the windows that makes the first class look worse.
For Flag livery as shown above, I've hedged my bets by pre-ordering (from Menzels Lokschuppen, but without much hope of seeing models soon) Pirata Pi6200, noting these should be hand-built models not matching any photos published online. Unfortunately no equivalent has been announced in Bigrigio - and as far as I can tell, despite Roco doing the Eurofima 2nd (only) in Bigrigio with Inclinato logo, most Bigrigio livered coaches in traffic during the late 1980s and early 1990s would have been UIC-Z1 but not Eurofima.
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I think you'd find both text (in German, but giving fuller details of international train formations than my previous posts) and photos in this 1993 publication very helpful:
LOKI spezial Nr. 6 Die Simplon-Linie
Unfortunately, copies come up more regularly on Ricardo.ch (for which I haven't found a UK workaround) than Ebay.de. Speaking of which, at least one old Ricardo listing (search for article number 1211982818) included a number of scanned pages, which should pique your interest.
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On 30/08/2023 at 10:50, m0rris said:
These particular prints are all 1/76, I sell some in different scales as well but 1/76th is my main range.
They are indeed 4mm, the Rover 75 just needs a couple of more minor tweaks to its dashboard and how its chassis fits which dropped off my to do list. I will bump it back onto it and try to get them sorted in the next fortnight.
Could any of these be made available in 1/160?
The Ford Granada Mk2 Ghia (saloon and estate) now listed on Shapeways in other scales would be particularly tempting.
I understand the computer says no to printing some of your designs at 1/160 in Fine Detail Plastic - does switching to Ultra Fine Detail make any difference?
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3 hours ago, MOB 2002 said:
I can’t tell you how useful this was … I’ve been away and done some digging into each of the EC trains and their formations. Photos like this have rather grabbed my attention:The first item of FS carriage stock arrived with me today; just a Fleischmann Eurofima B in C1 livery, but I’m keeping an eye out for more. I’ve already got a pair of SBB Eurofima A’s and a UIC restaurant in the C1 livery.
It looks like a totally typical formation for the Lemano and Lutetia in N might be a challenge, but I should be able to get close. The Cisalpin though looks pretty straightforward in due course.
Whilst searching I ended up finding this on Resisezuge.ch … https://reisezuege.ch/index.php?action=5&znummer=1284&fp_id=1
That seems to suggest that in 2005 there was a train of DB stock that made it all the way to Montreux! If that’s right, does anyone have any idea when the train started running?
In the meantime, I’m off to go and do some more garage clearing.
Mark
Thinking about stock provoked a brain-dump on the subject of the Roco / Fleischmann Eurofima coaches, which might be useful if you plan more shopping. The ‘Generation’ terminology is entirely my own…
Generation 1 has moving buffer beams: don’t bother. Also note (if you like swapping parts around) the bogies are incompatible with later production.
Generation 2 has fixed buffer beams, a painted finish (at least initially) and rather grey bodyside stripes. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24223) FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (Roco 24224) FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (Roco 24226) and many more
Generation 2.1 has a less grey (more white) bodyside stripe, to my mind this works well (next to Kato RICs, and Roco Generation 3) as a more recently outshopped C1 livery. Available in FS ‘Inclinato’ 1st (Roco 24296) and 2nd (Roco 24297)
Generation 3 has a slightly lighter orange, unpainted plastic bodyshell with a white bodyside stripe. KKK close coupling makes an appearance but at about this time Roco coaches started coming out of the moulds a bit banana-shaped which is a real pity. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24425) FS 2nd (Roco 24426) SNCB 2nd (Roco 24427) and more.
Later Roco models have window frames picked out in black, which I find distracting on C1 livery. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24465) and also a very nice two-tone grey (Roco 24470)
Fleischmann continued to pick out the window frames in black, and moulded an extra pair of retaining clips for the roof, to reduce the ‘wavy gutter line’ effect that stands out against new models where the roof is moulded integral with the body. Available in FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (814456) and FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (814458, 814459) but the size and alignment of the logo seems to have changed a bit, not for the better.
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What's your latest Swiss railway-themed aquisition?
in Swiss Railways
Posted
Plan A would be: one bogie from a Marklin z-gauge diesel (re-gauged if possible to 5mm - I think 4.5mm has been done) plus a small coreless motor with flywheel and stay-alives.
Ideally with DCC sound too...