Montreux_1991

Unclip the roof, then attack the eight retaining lugs (four each side) with a flat screwdriver, hoping you don't break anything. Then - while you're at it - replace the bogies? Minitrix SBB RIC EC: Tieferlegung mit korrekten Drehgestellen - Rollmaterial - spur-N-schweiz Forum

From memory - having bought and rejected the older Fleischmann UIC-X a couple of years ago - most of the excess height was due to (1) overall height of the bogies above the wheel bearings and (2) height of the lower body framing, which is painted dark grey in the photos above. And what's your source for the difference in cant rail height? I'd assume the contrary, that UIC-X coaches and their Swiss cousins would be very similar in their use of the loading gauge, and most differences between models are due to one manufacturer (or both) getting it wrong. Fleischmann know they got this wrong: the 'Neukonstruktion 2020' UIC-X coaches are marketed as having prototypically correct buffer height. Buffer and body height both compare favourably to my preferred reference, the Roco Eurofima: Comparing to your reference: The 'Neukonstruction 2020' model has been announced in FS grey (863960/1/2) but the release date has now slipped to 2025. For liver red and grey the 'modern' options with flush glazing are Arnold, ACME and Minitrix, but all have their issues... Arnold - too short, including the window openings which are only 5.5mm tall. My examples of HN4317 were also banana-shaped. The photo below shows HN 4265-3 but it's the same moulding: ACME - quite pretty in photos (although I think they went too far the other way with 6.25mm tall window openings) but the body mouldings are too thin to hold their shape and they also wobble and lean on their bogies: Minitrix - too tall, but it's all in the bogies so I've stockpiled some dark grey bogies from Roco 24264 donor carriages. Also Minitrix only produced the 11-compartment couchette moulding in this livery, even though one of the models is supposed to be a composite: All very frustrating! If you're interested, prototype notes and a comprehensive (2013, pre-ACME) review of N gauge models can be found and translated here: Carrozze UIC-X – parte terza: le sei serie italiane originali | scalaeNNe - Note Sparse (Treni, Ferrovie e loro modellazione in Scala N) (wordpress.com)

Also worth remembering / noting: between July 1993 (approximately 50 locomotives delivered) and November 1994 (approximately 100 locomotives delivered) due to poor reliability Re 460 were banned from IC services on the Geneva - Zurich main line, and many were used on goods and secondary services instead. LOKI spezial 6 'Die Simplon-Linie' shows Re 460s (on the front cover) hauling a mixed freight past Chillon, and (inside) hauling a goods train of mostly 4-wheel vans near Sion...

On the other hand... Pirata have announced two 'IC Lemano' sets: three Gran Confort coaches, and three handmade 'metal' Eurofima 2nd class. These are Art. 6193 and Art. 6194 respectively on the Pirata website, or the other way round in the 'Novita 2024' pdf. The previously announced FS 1983 restaurant car with ribbed roof (in the 'Benedetto Croce' set Art. 6160) now has a ribbed roof in the catalogue photo, although this could just be a photomontage. The previously announced 'metal' UIC-Z1 coaches in 1980s livery are are still represented by photos of the Arnold model.

I’m no longer sure the 2013 Re 4/4 tooling was all-new. It was initially exciting to find that spare glazing units, despite better colour choices and separately applied windscreen wipers, exactly fitted my existing models, but perhaps this was telling me (if I would only listen) that the original body tooling had been modified rather than scrapped. Perhaps this year we'll get an a new body and glazing but with many detail parts carried over from 2013 or from the Re6/6? And I’m not sure I understand what Fleischmann are thinking with the Cisalpino. The prototype illustration on page 47 features SBB Apm coaches (presumably on the Geneva-Milan route, between Veytaux-Chillon and Villeneuve) whereas the model photos suggest an FS first, using the ex-Roco Eurofima with no attempt to modify the roof moulding, and a brand new SBB Bpm incorrectly riding on Eurofima bogies...

Picking up a few comments on the Arnold BLS Re 4/4: Excess width is a longstanding problem in N gauge – not least on steam engines with (inevitably overscale) outside cylinders and valve gear. Arnold (BLS) and Fleischmann (SBB) Re 4/4s are both around 19.5mm wide. On the Fleischmann, most of the excess width seems to be in one place – the rounded ‘cab corner’ windows – making it obvious now I know what to look for. I’m not sure the Arnold is so obvious. That said, earlier Arnold production looked so bad (black plastic windows being a particular low point) that I’m surprised Lemaco never tried their luck in brass. As already noted by Frutigen, the model was reissued around ten years ago (HNS 2238 / 2239 /2240) with clear glazing, interior detail and improved finish. I assume this year’s models will have sound-related chassis modifications but no further changes to the bodyshell. For a replacement chassis I’d look no further than the (split frame, smooth-running) Hobbytrain SBB Re 4/4. If you’re not fussy about livery, complete brand-new models can usually be found on ebay.de from around EUR 125. I’m also puzzled by comments (on this thread and the recent ‘Ae 4/4 being winched’ thread) that BLS Ae 4/4 and Re 4/4 look similar. Doesn’t everyone just look at the cab window frames?

Livery application has always struck me as the weakest point of the Lima NPZ - the shame is that Arnold re-issued centre cars (3256/7/8) in the 1990s with plug doors, close coupling and a much sharper finish, but didn't reissue the NPZ. Adding insult to injury, they used a ‘paler than Lima’ shade of yellow for the doors. Even today, a sharp coat of paint (plus - ideally - upgraded bogies and pantographs) would make a fine model, assuming the tooling remains usable. I wish I could say the same for the Arnold UIC-X coaches. Or pretty much any of the alternatives, for one reason or another…

Next up: Arnold 2024 looks like a great year for Italian motive power (D445, E646 and ETR1000) but the only new Swiss items are BLS re4/4s (161, 173 and 192, with or without sound) and two Epoch II Edelweiss-Pullman coach sets. It's now 33 years and counting since the Lima NPZ was last produced. Does this mean Arnold / Hornby don't have usable tooling?

Perhaps someone at Piko had been watching Youtube and thought they could crash Hobbytrain's party? ► Abschied von den BLS EW I Wagen (youtube.com) These won't be cheap - Menzels Lokschuppen have pre-listed the two-car 'Bdt plus B' set and the three-car set at 190 EUR each - but for my money (having one of each in my collection) the Piko Bdt is a better model than the Hobbytrain driving trailer, and likely to 'go' better with the Piko coaches.

Looks like Piko are first out of the blocks this year. With one locomotive: Two coach sets: And one wagon:

I remember walking my employer’s Chien Bernois on the Quai Des Fleurs, and being ID checked at 1am (on a night off) by the police, between Vevey and Montreux. In railway terms, lakeside settings make me think of smaller stations (Territet and Veytaux-Chillon on the Quai Des Fleurs, or Rivaz and St Saphorin in the Lavaux vineyards) whereas the larger stations with more developed track plans tend to be further inland. I’ll be watching this space to see how you blend the two…

To which (the wish for an up to scratch EWII D) I'd add - please let it be Piko and please change the usual release schedule so the 'old logo' version comes out first...

It's impressive - and currently for sale. I know what you mean about glimpses of trains. My room isn't ready yet for 'Montreux station on one 2.4m baseboard' but I plan to leave myself considerable flexibility on the final placement of buildings and the final levels / sight lines at the front of the layout. In particular, the layout will have to be deep enough to follow the sweeping curve of Avenue Des Alpes (away from the railway, requiring more depth and building construction) giving a view across rooftops, but with the option of cutting back to Rue de la Rouvenettaz, from which I accessed the end of the 'direction Lausanne' platform so many times... Hugh

The road layout doesn’t look right to me – in particular where it crosses four tracks on the level. The only level crossing I remember (Montreux) crossed the station throat just before two tracks became three: And was replaced (circa 1996) by this: Also have you considered / looked at Villeneuve? In 1:1 scale, the open nature of the site made this a better place than Montreux to watch mainline trains go by, and in model form it could use ‘flat’ baseboards and fewer structures than the ‘town centre’ stations (Vevey, Montreux) you’ve previously referred to. A few years ago I looked at fitting Villeneuve onto a single 2.4m long baseboard, modelling from the overbridges at the Lausanne end to Route de la Tour Rouge at the Brig end. There are vines and conifers (!) behind the railway and most ‘essential’ buildings would be in a view-blocking cluster at the Brig end – behind the railway a locomotive shed (housing a shunting locomotive for the adjacent ballast yard) and possibly 1 and 3 Route de la Tour Rouge, and in front of the railway a church, station building and post-war block of shops and flats.

For anyone with an unrebuilt (wooden-bodied) SBB De4/4 on their wish-list, this will be of interest: https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2023/11/25/sbb-de-4-4-di-lo-co Incidentally (for those not already familiar with it) the ‘scalaeNNe – Note Sparse’ website has hugely detailed articles on FS rolling stock, and others including TEE stock and Eurofima livery. All in Italian but very readable with Google Translate.

This reminds me of the Fleischmann UIC-X coaches in FS rosso fegato (liver red) livery, for example 811104. Digital printing done badly?

On Google Maps, the platforms at Montreux look to be about 400m long. They would have been a little shorter before removal (in the 1990s) of the level crossing at the Lausanne end of the station. In the early 1990s, most ‘Direct’ services stopping at Montreux comprised four second class / two first class / one EWII brake, with or without additional coaches. My (possibly over-simplified) impression was of quite uniform sets – all EWIV, all old logo, all new logo or all comfort stripe – with occasional ‘swaps’ such as EWIV or RIC firsts with EWI and EWII seconds, and less uniform additional coaches. I took this photo in 1991 to remind me of a ‘typical’ train formation: And I took these photos in 1996 (or Spring 1997, I no longer remember) intending one day to cross-reference the formations against my pocket timetable: In model form, subject to non-availability of a decent EWII brake, I have the four sets noted above and plan to mix-and-match with ‘add-on sets’ of composite / third / third, first / third / third and sleeper / couchette / couchette. With unlimited space I’d allow a maximum train length of 13 coaches (one set plus two add-ons) but I’m planning for 10 coaches, worst case 1.65 metres.

I got mine from Scograil (consistently cheaper than Gaugemaster) and have also pre-ordered HN4393, the 3-car set in Brigrigio livery. But I still have the same 'mixed' response as I did to the original Arnold models with 380x catalogue numbers: they're slightly taller overall than Roco Eurofimas, the windows are too tall and square and there's something about the fit of the windows that makes the first class look worse. For Flag livery as shown above, I've hedged my bets by pre-ordering (from Menzels Lokschuppen, but without much hope of seeing models soon) Pirata Pi6200, noting these should be hand-built models not matching any photos published online. Unfortunately no equivalent has been announced in Bigrigio - and as far as I can tell, despite Roco doing the Eurofima 2nd (only) in Bigrigio with Inclinato logo, most Bigrigio livered coaches in traffic during the late 1980s and early 1990s would have been UIC-Z1 but not Eurofima.

I think you'd find both text (in German, but giving fuller details of international train formations than my previous posts) and photos in this 1993 publication very helpful: LOKI spezial Nr. 6 Die Simplon-Linie Unfortunately, copies come up more regularly on Ricardo.ch (for which I haven't found a UK workaround) than Ebay.de. Speaking of which, at least one old Ricardo listing (search for article number 1211982818) included a number of scanned pages, which should pique your interest.

Could any of these be made available in 1/160? The Ford Granada Mk2 Ghia (saloon and estate) now listed on Shapeways in other scales would be particularly tempting. I understand the computer says no to printing some of your designs at 1/160 in Fine Detail Plastic - does switching to Ultra Fine Detail make any difference?

Thinking about stock provoked a brain-dump on the subject of the Roco / Fleischmann Eurofima coaches, which might be useful if you plan more shopping. The ‘Generation’ terminology is entirely my own… Generation 1 has moving buffer beams: don’t bother. Also note (if you like swapping parts around) the bogies are incompatible with later production. Generation 2 has fixed buffer beams, a painted finish (at least initially) and rather grey bodyside stripes. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24223) FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (Roco 24224) FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (Roco 24226) and many more Generation 2.1 has a less grey (more white) bodyside stripe, to my mind this works well (next to Kato RICs, and Roco Generation 3) as a more recently outshopped C1 livery. Available in FS ‘Inclinato’ 1st (Roco 24296) and 2nd (Roco 24297) Generation 3 has a slightly lighter orange, unpainted plastic bodyshell with a white bodyside stripe. KKK close coupling makes an appearance but at about this time Roco coaches started coming out of the moulds a bit banana-shaped which is a real pity. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24425) FS 2nd (Roco 24426) SNCB 2nd (Roco 24427) and more. Later Roco models have window frames picked out in black, which I find distracting on C1 livery. Available in SBB 1st (Roco 24465) and also a very nice two-tone grey (Roco 24470) Fleischmann continued to pick out the window frames in black, and moulded an extra pair of retaining clips for the roof, to reduce the ‘wavy gutter line’ effect that stands out against new models where the roof is moulded integral with the body. Available in FS ‘Televisore’ 1st (814456) and FS ‘Televisore’ 2nd (814458, 814459) but the size and alignment of the logo seems to have changed a bit, not for the better.

I’m surprised you see a challenge finding stock: I’ve been tempted by availability (and mostly quality) to go far beyond my initial period of 1991. The biggest gap, now announced by Hobbytrain, is the SBB Bpm but there have always been plausible workarounds. In the period 1977-80 the Bpm hadn’t been delivered and SBB Eurofima coaches could be seen with orange-liveried RIC couchettes; for later years I would substitute FS Eurofima 2nd class coaches. I’m aware of the following suitable stock (in roughly chronological order) FS diesel railcars: Lematec or Locomodels.it SBB RAe: Hobbytrain (not the Kato model, which is in preserved condition with a white aerial on the cab roof and more bodyside lettering) FS TEE coaches: Pirata, re-released earlier this year as a very nice five car set (Pi6118) with ‘Televisore’ logo Mistral 69 coaches: LS models or (announced) Arnold SBB RIC coaches: Hobbytrain or Kato. The RIC Bpm conversions in ‘EW IV’ livery have been done by Wabu (Hobbytrain repaint) Wemoba (Hobbytrain repaint) and Kato, although none gets close to matching the Roco EW IV livery, Wemoba being in my opinion the least bad. FS UIC-X coaches: Acme and Pirata, who have announced a grey UIC-X full brake and (in a set) what I think is the FS restaurant car that I spotted in 1996. With luck they'll do the UIC-X brake in C1 orange at some point... Eurofima coaches, and the very similar-looking FS UIC-Z1 built in large number from the mid-1980s. The Minitrix SBB 1st still splits between upper and lower bodyside. Arnold (who did a ‘fake’ SBB Eurofima 2nd) look too tall, with particularly deep-set windows on the 1st class, but they offer Z1 coaches with revised doors and roof and a better range of post-C1 orange liveries: HN4393 and HN4394 should be with us in a few months. Pirata do a Z1 that’s been announced in late 1980s livery (Pi6200) but for Eurofima coaches you can’t look beyond the Roco / Fleischmann model despite its age. SBB RABe: Hobbytrain or Kato BB ex-SNCF MC76 brake coach: Lima 320388 SBB Eurocity coaches: Minitrix

I was lucky enough to spend summer 1991 in Montreux, working mostly nights and using my spare time to explore the railways and model shops of Lake Geneva. With no prior knowledge of Swiss railways and no internet, I had to make my own (extensively researched, but perhaps slightly over-simplified) conclusions about train formations. There were four daytime Eurocity train pairs: EC Cisalpin, Lemano and Lutetia which connected with TGVs at Lausanne and terminated at Milan, and EC Monteverdi which terminated at Venice. All were operated by RABe ‘Grey Mouse’ units with red coupling covers, or by air-conditioned SBB stock in C1 orange livery, hauled by Re4/4 IVs in Bahn 2000 livery. The only foreign coaches I remember from four months of intensive train-watching were occasional rakes of FS stock in Rosso Fegato livery, possibly replacing SBB stock on IC services, and the ex-SNCF MC76 coaches (in Corail livery with SBB branding) which had recently been added to loco-hauled Eurocity trains. Outside the 1989-1993 reign of the Grey Mice, published sources and photographs (and my own observations in 1996) show more foreign stock on international services: TEE Cisalpin was operated by RAe II four-voltage units from 1961, then with loco-hauled SNCF Mistral 69 stock from May 1974 TEE Lemano was operated by FS 2-car diesel units from 1959, then with loco-hauled FS TEE stock from May 1972, adding FS 2nd class coaches from May 1982 Le Lutetia was operated from 1977 with FS loco-hauled stock, mostly in C1 orange livery. TGVs came to Lausanne in January 1981, but didn’t get to Brig (as a daily TGV des Neiges) until the winter 1995-6 timetable. In summer 1996 most international services were operated with SBB Eurocity coaches in two-tone grey, but the EC Monteverdi was FS UIC-Z stock plus a restaurant car. Then came the Cisalpino saga…

There were four locomotives. All were repainted in Bahn 2000 livery in the late 1980s. I've had one model from new (1991) when the originals were hauling EC trains through Montreux every day. In theory you could tell them apart by the coat of arms next to the driver's door but in practice they looked identical. More recently I've been tempted by the availability of matching hauled stock (SNCF Inox and FS TEE) to buy the four 'experimental' original liveries. Which are all very distinctive - in fact on the Roco models, which I assume are correct, two of the liveries are different each side!

Clearly more modern tooling than the 1984 Roco model, but with 'interesting' design choices carried over from the Re4/4 II: - the window frames will be printed onto the body, not the glazing. This avoids light leakage around the frames when cab lighting is fitted but (ever since comparing the Kato RAe/RABe to the Hobbytrain original) I find the other way round more convincing. Fortunately (unlike the Re4/4 II) the wipers are separate etched parts, not moulded / printed onto window and body with a 'break' in the middle. - the cab front handrails are separately applied, but the cab door handrails are moulded on. Again I find the other way round more convincing. - the bogies are moulded in one piece, including the (speedometer?) cables which look a bit clumsy. Hopefully bogies, skirts and underframe details will be a nice shade of blue-grey. I currently have five Roco models - one in Bahn 2000 livery owned from new, and four in original liveries picked up more recently on Ebay. If I can find the time and skill (and possibly Hobbytrain spare parts) to replace the shiny black bogies, skirts and underframe details, I might yet keep some or all of these.