Schooner

A brief start to an SDJR post The run: The representation of the S&D will start as it crosses the GWR mainline at Twerton, including "May's Siding", servicing Victoria Brick and Tile Works. Twerton Co-op Siding, which handled the co-op's bakery and coal depot traffic, will also be included. Date-wise this means the GWR Camerton Branch should also be modelled, running along Midford valley under the SDJR viaduct, and given the scope of everything else it seems churlish to rule it out already! I'm gonna be needing a few of these With a little tactical compression, the line will then disappear into Devonshire Tunnel...and just over a maxium-intented-SDJR-coal-train-length later it will then emerge from Coombe Down Tunnel. This will also act as the scene change from 'near Bath' to 'near Midford'. The scenic run, and the proper bit of S&D will be from Tuckingmill to a little was South of Midford Viaduct. All in all, the S&D should have a good bit of small scale shunting at May's and Twerton Co-Op (see below for some useful bits), Midford goods yard, and the small siding on the Up side South of the viaduct; scope to show off long coal trains, banked trains, and a decent mix of passenger services. That said, I've yet to get my sticky mitts on a WTT for the period... Great info from http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/: "On the SDJR line about ½-mile south of Bath Junction a set of points facing to Down trains gave access to a siding on the Up side of the line, which served a brickworks. The brickworks were opened in 1887 by Thomas May and the siding is believed to have been opened on 8-April-1890. May sold the works in 1890 to the Victoria Brick & Tile Company, after which the siding was renamed accordingly, but the original name 'May's Siding' continued to be used in some railway records. Access to the siding was controlled by a covered 2-lever ground-frame (GF), located on the Up side of the line adjacent to the siding point. This GF controlled the siding point and its Facing Point Lock, the trap-point at the siding exit and a bolt on the boundary gate across the siding. As at Twerton Siding, unusually the GF was unlocked by the bank engine staff rather than the single-line tablet" "In 1911 a siding was opened to serve the the bakery and coal depot of the Twerton Co-operative Society (later the Bath & Twerton Co-operative Society) and this installation was inspected for the BoT by Major Pringle in November that year (National Archives file MT6/2206/10). This siding was on the Down side of the S&DJR single-line, just over ¾-mile from Bath Junction, almost directly opposite the site of the original Bath Ticket Platform. The siding points were facing to Down trains and controlled by an adjacent covered 2-lever GF located on the Up side of the line. This GF controlled the siding point and its Facing Point Lock, the trap-point at the siding exit and a bolt on the boundary gate across the siding. As at May's Siding, the GF was unlocked by the bank engine staff rather than the single-line tablet. The siding was known variously as 'Twerton Co-operative Society Siding' or just 'Twerton Siding' in railway records, but in later BR days it became the 'Bath Cooperative Society Siding'. The siding survived in use even after the closure of most of the S&DJR on 6-March-1966 and it was not closed until 30-November-1967." Midford goods yard crane Cheers and gone! Schooner Links to check out: http://www.coalcanal.org http://radstockmuseum.co.uk/ http://www.aibt.org/home.html

You and me both Your post brought a smile (as does your modelling) as I found myself being conveyed through the above, 'courtesy' of... ...this afternoon. Keep up the good fight

Absolutely nothing wrong with your layout, though. Everything from the wiring alterations to the bedding of the shed looks bob on Excellent stuff as always Chuff, keep up the sterling work!

Yup, in 1933 according to this lovely website. A joy to catch up with this thread, as ever. Bishop's Lynn is set to become something very fine indeed, and I loved the supporting photos. Turn-of-the-century docks never cease to fascinate Cheers all, Schooner

Glad you think so - it certainly seems very good, but proceeding as I am on the basis of scanty knowledge I'm a little wary of online resources. I've nabbed the Section 3 timetables already*, thinking they'd make a nice gentle introduction on how to glean information from WTTs...but actually they've highlighted a bit of crunch point in the nascent layout all these posts are (very) gradually working towards. Carnage starts here if anyone fancies playing as fast and loose with timetabling as I've done with geography *well noted about the Up/Down for the Bathampton branch, although I still don't always manage to refer to them correctly...

Thanks for that Mike, really interesting and useful information. I should probably have mentioned that my interest is particularly in the first two decades of the 20th Century, and I'm only just getting to grips with the only timetable I've found for the period (so far), so it's a great help to have the moves so clearly explained

Foy with trains and cranes: Captioned 'Preston Dock c.1918' - I tried to post this before but couldn't for some reason. It's a nice and relevant picture, so I thought worth sharing Things of note on the wet side of the dock edge are the flags (Armistice?), the man aloft on the trading ketch behind Foy, and the un-modified derricks (!). I suspect the bow line is lead around the bollard like that to keep her in close whilst transferring cargo (although there's plenty of breeze pinning her to the dock!) - the kind of detail that would really make a dockside layout. Cheers, Schooner

A great find Harlequin, many thanks - not only is the shed of relevance, but the yard crane is a dead ringer for that at BoA and those photos will be really useful Another question to highlight my ignorance - does this mean that wagons to be dropped at BoA would typically be assembled at Westbury? So traffic from the North would go past BoA, drop at Westbury where a train for the Bathampton branch would be made up to go back up the branch a deliver those wagons? #n00b Interesting. Are you seeing this in the change of orientation in the-timbers-that-aren't-barge-boards-but-now-I've-got-that-in-my-head-I-can't-remember-what-they're-called (vertical in the 1870s pic, horizontal in all subsequent photos, and it seems other sheds)? Are there other changes you've spotted that I've missed? Good to know, thank you Sheds to investigate: Challow, Chippenham, Newbury, Par (although this sounds like it might be for other reasons), Ross-on-Wye, Tiverton, Yeovil... Excellent, should keep me out of trouble for a little while!

Sorry about the quality, as before I'm only really doing it quickly for myself to try to work out what's going where but thought I might as well share Looks like a docker or two and a lot of kids off school! But by "busy" in my post above I was actually referring to: Lots of unnecessary stuff going on, it's diverting to try to work out what and why All in all an unusual set up - don't think I've ever seen spars lashed to derricks to extend the head like that, and I'm struggling to think of a reason why the time and effort would've been expended.* Cheers all, Schooner *Yes yes, other than the derricks being too short to reach over a quay and provide enough height to hoist...but where? What cargo? How often? It's a lot of fuss for a sub-optimal result...

Have to? Now? Certainly not! ...but if you happened to come across them at some point I'm sure I wouldn't be the only interested party... A-ha! Not the photo from the Berks and Hants book Harlequin mentioned then...? I suspect there was no single approach to the interior fit out any more than there was to the exterior, but it's all interesting stuff

Thanks Harlequin, I'll do some digging into Newbury too (added to the list under Challow, any more spring to mind for anyone?) to see if some determining factors can be teased out Sort of related (it's not really related), I've just discovered Kelly's Directory and seen that the Midland Railway Company are listed as local carriers for BoA, and maintained a goods depot there (9 Margaret St, Richard Laytham agent...the Directories are amazing!). Does this mean MR sent a ? [open wagon? covered van? road vehicle?] between Queen Square, Bath and BoA*? Any pointers for where to look for more information on this practice? The things you never knew you never knew... Thanks all

If anyone was going to give us an authoritative "two-road sheds were built when..." I thought it would be Mike! Even if vans were less common, they (and tarpaulins) are surely cheaper than a larger shed...? ...or stone? I was wondering why both the loading gantry and the crane, thinking perhaps they were for two different jobs, but both seem to be using lifting shears...could it be that stone traffic was heavy enough to justify the building of the gantry soley to load the southern road at the same time as the crane could be loading the northern? Still doesn't help with what would be going on inside the shed, but one step at a time Thanks for all the info so far

Small goods yard, large goods shed - makes sense that it was for a particular industry, and you're absolutely right that wool was still the main industry in Bradford...although by the time the railway arrived in 1857 (the shed and station having been completed in '48...), it was on the way out and factories were being converted or left derelict, the final one closing in 1905. Looking at the smoke marks in Britain From Above photos from the '30s, it seems both shed roads got about equal usage but I suppose that's about right if one was for shed platform and one went on the loading bay, which I can see being more efficient than the original plan where the bay and shed platform are both on the same road.

Apologies, I was wrong above: There are two other photos of Foy at the same docking here and here, but without buying the print the quality is too poor to be helpful. Why she's got jury-extended derricks, had the fore port guy mucked about with, got strops hanging off the cargo purchase hooks etc etc etc I don't know... To bring us back on topic, here she is again....in a photo it seems I can't attach LINK Cheers

For reasons many, varied, and deeply tedious to recount I'm looking at this on a smashed and paint-spattered phone screen so it's very hard to see exactly what's going on*, but to my eye it looks like the line has been run ashore simply to position the block directly above the tracks. Load hooked on to the working end of the whip*, held inboard during the hoist out of the hold, heavy load is eased out over the tracks, lowered, load unhooked, light load is hauled back in as it's lowed back into the hold. The weight of the load does all the work of getting it out over the dock, making it quicker easier (and safer) work for man and machine. Cheers, Schooner *It's busier than need be around that block, and I simply can't see what's rigged how. Not that it particularly matters but tomorrow I'll have a look through a better medium to confirm what I think is going on is the case

Yes Sir, twin-track then too: Such a cool photo (borrowed from here), which I've seen dated as 1870. Pre-1874 any road! So much going on and to unpick, wish I could find a higher-res version But once there were two! The broad-gauge trackplan survived the conversion to standard (1887 and 1901 1:2,500 OS): ...just not to the conversion of aircraft into photographic vehicles! Interestingly though, the line of that northern road out of the shed is clearly visible on the aerial photo, I think.

Thanks for the swift and helpful response Working the shed like that makes a lot of sense - double the capacity and an increase in efficiency for only a small increase in cost. I wonder if that capacity was a requirement for the town, or if it was built on spec...

Morning all, Following the 'Knowledge' and 'Infrastructure' bits of the forum titles, I'm hoping this is the right place to ask a question about two-road goods sheds, as (I believe) not infrequently found on the GWR. My apologies if this is covered somewhere else, nothing came up in couple of investigations of RMWeb using the search function. Admins please feel free to move as required. Anyway: In short, I'd like to know why they were built, and how they were operated. My confusions stems from my general belief that a goods shed serves to provide a space where freight can be transferred from road to rail, by necessity at platform height. Where does a section of track within the shed but without platform access fit in to this? Attached as an example are a photo (1935) and plan (1924) of Bradford on Avon. It might be worth noting that originally the shed was on a loop, with both shed roads having access to the up line but only the northern (platform access) road continuing on into the loading dock, as per the 1906 OS. I'm hoping decent information on the interior fit-out of the shed may illuminate things, but I've yet to come across any... All thoughts gratefully received! Schooner

Hear, hear! Your work is, quite literally, inspirational. I'm sure you don't do it purely for the pleasure of others, but it really is a joy to look at - thank you for sharing

I wish there was more! It came as a total surprise to me browsing a set of old OS maps. Armed with the knowledge of where to look, I'm hoping to get down there again before too long (perhaps in the winter, without so much foliage in the way) and have a scuffle about to see what I can find ("research", shurely), but the edge of the stone yard is definitely pretty obvious when cleared. I absolutely agree that it's a shame information is not more readily available to those passing by. The stone yard in particular seems unknown - the history of the workhouse, mills, quarries, cottages and pub is fairly well covered by what I've found in the charming Avoncliff: The Secret History of an Industrial Hamlet in War and Peace or various freely available online sources* and I think (?) there's an educational board or two about the aqueduct...but very very little on the yard. Barely a sentence, and the tiny bits in the two Frith Collection photos - not very much to go on. I might have to get off my seat and do some actual research for this bit! On a largely unrelated note - I've had a WTT-inspired clustercuss about Frome, detailed in the edited post above. Any help much appreciated Cheers, Schooner *Which never cease to amaze. This morning I'd never heard of Kelly's Directories. This afternoon I've used them to find out that in 1911, the year for which I also have time-tabling information, the stationmaster at Bradford on Avon was Mr V.O.J. Fenner. I wish I could order all the books that doubtless hold answers to my many questions, but it is still staggering what one is able to find out with really very little effort

A post for WTT thoughts it will, as all others, be edited and altered over time to reflect changing state of information, progress etc. These are new to me so please forgive silly questions, I got a little tingle of excitement reading through this last night (...and well into this morning...) but I'll doubtless make mistakes, misunderstand information I read correctly, and misread plenty more. Any corrections will be taken gratefully 1911 WTT couresty of http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/ These seem a great find, almost spot on for the period I was hoping to represent, immensely powerful documents and not as impenetrable as feared. Is there anything I need to be wary of? For a trial run I looked last night at the workings of the Bathampton branch (roughly), which brought a few pleasant surprises and re-opened an old conundrum - what to do with Frome. Any easy example is the 09.35 Bath - Frome railmotor service: ...which can, on the 'inside' layout, be seen doing a reasonable facsimile: Bath bay - (Hampton Row) - Bathampton - Avoncliff - Bradford on Avon (so far so good) - Bradford West/South Jnc towards Trowbridge...At this point I'm hoping that Frome, being a station in the right sort of place, not particularly visible to the Bradford operator, and operated independently (as as part of the 'outside' layout), can stand in as Trowbridge, the time being 10.10. For the Frome operator, they will view the same as the 10.44 arrival and manage it as such. I think this is workable, and shows off the uber-plan to advantage. One of these, however would be liable to cause problems. Would it start in Frome-as-Trowbridge? Would it start from the LH fiddleyard and pass through Frome without stopping? Frome is already a bit of a fudge, obviously, but I'd under-appreciated how busy it was and the role it played in the network. The issue I'm immediately seeing is what do with services that call at Bradford or Frome which originate or terminate at Trowbridge or Westbury. It turns out that Frome was plenty busy enough without having to stand in for two other stations and another mainline junction, My planned thinning of the timetable may not be enought to cut it. There's no particular reason why Frome services for Westbury etc couldn't go off-scene via Bradford North, and Frome-fiddleyard is absolutely workable for South-bound traffic; or something ...but it's the volume of it that I see causing issue. It doesn't take much movement on the Bathampton Branch and Reading-Taunton line section (which connects at Bradford Junction with my dubious cartography ) - even with real timetabling - for things to get hectic for the Frome operator. Then once all that's settled the SDJR needs thrown into the fray; and coal traffic worked out...it should come in to the sidings via Frome West and the Radstock Branch...but should go out along the SDJR towards Bath. This all seems dangerously complicated at the moment and although I'm sure a resolution exists, I'd appreciate any thoughts on how to manage this messiest corner of the layout! I'm very happy to alter the layout plan etc, any ideas most welcome! Looking forward to it Schooner PS: Until I have somewhere else to put it: The Historical Model Railway Society gallery PPS: The not directly relevant, but absolutely brilliant and hopefully useful Warwickshire Railways website PPS: Headcode info, copied from here. "Relevant extracts from Great Western Railway’s Rules and Regulations (1st January 1905 and 1st January 1923): Rule 125. For the information of Station-masters, Signalmen, and others each engine must carry the prescribed Head Lamps or Discs, and Destination Boards where provided. Rule 126. Every train travelling on the Line must have a Tail Lamp, properly cleaned and trimmed, attached to the last vehicle, by day as well as by night. The Lamp need not be lighted in the daytime, except in foggy weather or during falling snow, or where otherwise provided, but its presence in the rear of each passing train will furnish evidence to the Signalmen that no portion of the train has become detached. Rule 127. After sunset, and in foggy weather or during falling snow, every engine must carry the necessary Head Lights, and, when running alone, a Red Tail Light also; and except as shown in the following paragraph, or where instructions are issued to the contrary, every train while on any Running Line must carry a Red Tail Light on the last vehicle and two Red Side Lights. Where trains are run in the same direction on Parallel Lines, special Regulations for Head, Side, and Tail Lamps will be made, when necessary, to meet the circumstances of each case. Note. – For details of the practice to be observed, see General Appendix to the Rule Book The Guard, if there be only one, or the rear Guard, if there be more than one, must see that the Tail and Side Lamps are kept properly burning when necessary. Rule 128. Engines when on any Running Line without a train must carry a Tail Lamp in the rear both by day and by night. Engines assisting trains in the rear must carry a Tail Lamp. Engines drawing trains must not carry any Tail Lamp. In the case of two or more engines running coupled together without a train, the last engine only must carry a Tail Lamp. Rule 129. Shunting engines employed exclusively in Station Yards and Sidings must, after sunset or in foggy weather or during falling snow, carry both Head and Tail Lamps showing a Red Light or such other Light as may be prescribed. Lamp Headcodes Lamp Headcodes allowed the type of the approaching train to be identified from a distance. The system had been introduced in the 1850’s to inform Signalmen of the expected speed of a train through their section. This was particularly useful when operating a Time Interval signalling system, but even after this system was superseded by Block Section signalling Lamp Headcodes were retained. The Headcodes were indicated on the front of locomotives using oil lamps (which were lighted at night) mounted as appropriate on three permanent brackets (lamp irons) fitted to the buffer beam and a fourth in front of the chimney (later this upper bracket was moved to the top of the smoke box door). On the Great Western Railway these oil lamps were initially painted red, but the colour was changed to white after December 1936 (CME Circular 5746), although the process was gradual and took several years to complete, during which time trains with either red or white painted lamps and sometimes both could be seen. To complicate matters some Lamp Headcodes had different meanings in different companies and at different time periods, with some companies also using additional positions and coloured discs instead of lamps. This is despite the Railway Clearing House (RCH) issuing a number of standard Lamp Headcode arrangements. Even within the same company the lamp positions and their meanings were occasionally changed. On the Great Western Railway there were several versions, two of which plus the British Railways version are described below on pages from official Service Time Tables. These also indicate the corresponding bell code used by the Signalman to describe the train type, when informing the neighbouring Signal Box of the train entering their section."

Gah! But of course it is, thank you! I'd simply failed to spot the stone ready under the gantry...or the lifting shears hanging from the gantry truck, etc. This is part of the issue with searching galleries online - the urge is to hoard as much information as possible in one hit (partly because I'm not always certain how I arrive at the various corners of the internet I find myself in!). This is the point in creating a repository here, but it goes to show how much can be missed at first glance. ...is perfect! Many thanks, I've added a link to them in the station bit of the BoA post There's even a Youtube review/tutorial for the kit! Just a quick message today to apologise for not editing and captioning the AVF and BoA posts, which I had hoped to be done over the weekend. I'm going to blame Old Maps and Britain From Above for being as distracting as they are a powerful combination. So much to be learned...at least some of which is what I aimed to find out... Cheers all, Schooner

So, about this photo: . The shed itself - why two road? Initially I had assumed that in being a broad-guage shed, there was simply room for two roads when converted to standard guage...but here it is. I thought a goods shed was a covered space in which certain loads could be transferred from road to rail under cover via a platform - how does a road with no platform access fit in to this? Then the frame outside the shed...a loading gantry? What for? What's the lifting screw (?) on the RH of it all about?! Are those two pulley sheaves in the centre of the upper beam? The crane...a recognisable design to anyone? I think it had changed by c.1910 to the box-girder design seen in many of the photos up above, but I'd love to know more about it No sign of any sleepers - fully ash ballasted? Looks very light-coloured...? Note to self: look up the Bradford quarries to see when production ceased. I 'd not planned a stone yard at BoA as I was under the impression it had gone by my period, but I should check. Note also the vertical timbers on the shed, against the horizontal ones shown in later pics. Find out when and why the change. Schooner

Bradford on Avon: A small but affluent wool town for over a millenium, Bradford provides the focal point on the layout between Bath and Frome. By the chosen period, the wool mills had all closed down, with some being repurposed (Kingston Mill* became Stephen Moulton's rubber factory in 1848 which went on to supply rubber for buffers, springs and hoses to the GWR) but many becoming abandoned. The railway arrived slowly, with earth- and engineering-works, station and goods buildings being completed by the Wilts, Somerset and Weymouth Railway in 1848 but the line was only opening in 1857, after the GWR's official take-over of the WSWR in 1850. Hence the following view of the railway buildings senza railway, captured by a Mrs E. Tackle in 1850, and George Ashmead's map of 1837, adapted c.1850 to show the then-current state of play: *Kingston Mill, c. 1500 feet ENE of the existing station, also being the site of the 1834-proposed GWR BLT at Bradford; from Thingley Farm outside Chippenham to a "field near the Gas Works in the part of the parish of Trowbridge called Islington, with another branch thereout from the south- western extremity of Kingston Farm adjoining the town of Bradford": ....anyway, by 1852 the line had come so far... ...but no further, until legal action in that year (largely won by the GWR, the Bradford-Bathampton branch excepted, despite an appeal in '53) compelled the GWR to finish the work they'd started. By 1857 this was done - double track (broad gauge Brunel's Standard Gauge, of course) on baulks and transoms to Bradford, single track on sleepers every 3' onward to Bathampton (despite the line being designed and built for double). Colonel Yolland inspected it on the 16th Jan and found it wanting, but a fortnight later he returned and deemed it fit for passenger traffic. This first service, almost certainly headed by a Firefly, ran on Monday 2nd of February and was reported by The Wiltsire Times of the 7th thus: "On Monday last the line between Trowbridge and Bath via Bradford was opened for traffic The first train arrived here soon after 7.00 am and 10 trains are registered to run, viz 5 up and 5 down. Considerable excitement prevailed throughout the day, on the arrival of each train the railway station was besieged by hundreds of eager spectators. The celebrated Bradford brass band played lively airs at intervals during the day, and as often as might be heard the sound of the merry church bells. A good dinner was provided in the evening by Mr J,C. Neale of the Swan Hotel. We learn that the inhabitants of the town are not contented with the list of fares laid down by railway company; for a return ticket from Bradford to Bath a distance of 9 miles, a fare of 3/3d is demanded, whereas from Trowbridge to Frome, a similar distance, the price is only 1/6d. The line curves away from the main about one mile from Trowbridge station through Bradford, Avoncliff, Freshford, Limpley Stoke to the junction at Bathampton where it joins the GWR to Bath etc., passing 3 times under the Kennet and Avon Canal and 6 bridges by extensive viaducts over the river Avon." It is reassuring that bizarre and extortionate rail fares are as old as the railway Lovely snippets from the same year, June 27th and July 25th respectively: "On Monday 22nd this unusually quiet town was greatly enlivened by an excursion train which stopped at the Bradford station on its way to Weymouth. Here it was joined by the brass band belonging to the town, to whom great credit is due to for the very praiseworthy way in which they enlivened the pleasure of the day. The weather was remarkably favourable but a goodly number of passengers (150-200) found difficulty in obtaining seats and it would have been easier if rail carriages had been awaiting the train, and it would have been given greater satisfaction." ...and... "Yesterday morning a monster train from Bristol, Bath and Bradford passed our station on its way to Salisbury. It consisted of about 30 carriages, propelled with two powerful engines. The train was a very heavy one and must have conveyed about 2,000 persons. Our neighbours at Bradford a short time ago expressed themselves to be annoyed with the accommodation they received on an excursion to Weymouth, on this occasion they have been preferred. However, many persons from Trowbridge we believe availed them selves of the privilege by obtaining tickets at Bradford." 1874 brought about the change to Standard Gauge, the work being completed over 18-hour days between 18th-22nd June by 1,800 men working in gangs of twenty or so, each covering a mile to a mile and a half of track. The work was staggered, to enable (reduced) services to run on the remaining broad guage line, as in the photo of Trowbridge station, above. 1877 brought a new 30-lever signal box... ....and 1878 saw the replacement of the timber-framed original bridge over the Avon to the West of the station in iron: lovely period Frith Collection photo In 1885 the line was finally doubled to Bathampton, in anticipation of increased goods traffic through the Severn Tunnel which opened the following year. 1895 a West Curve was laid at Bradford Junction to enable Bristol Expresses to avoid Box Tunnel when covered in thick frost and still run without reversal, Swindon - Chippenham - Bath. Following a push by Canon William Jones, the town name changed to 'Bradford on Avon', hyphenated by the railway alone. And thus is the condition of Bradford about 1910, the intended period of the model. Station buildings: Ideal Metcalfe kits (many thanks Dana!) Follow the design of Twyford, but built entirely in Bath stone: Goods Shed and Yard: With Abbey Mill in use (tall smoking chimbley, centre), pre-1902 Relevant discussion here, from which: Other two-road GWR sheds to investigate: Challow, Chippenham, Newbury, Par (although this sounds like it might be for other reasons), Ross-on-Wye, Tiverton, Yeovil Mike-the-Stationmaster on likely traffic paterns "...True an Up train could possibly be run round using the two crossovers but the distance between them was not very great so it would only be possible with a. short train unless train was split. I would think that at one time Up trains might possibly have called to pick up urgent traffic, and maybe even to set down shed traffic, but the easiest way to shunt the yard was by using a Down train hence Westbury being the serving yard. I have just checked the 1891 STT (Service Timetable) and a number of Up Goods and coal trains were booked to stop at Bradford but in every case except one ( a 10 minute stop) it was only for 5 minutes. However in the Down direction three Goods trains called and the shortest time there was 15 with a morning train (from Westbury) being booked 20 minutes. It was later than the early morning Up trains and would obviously have been able to properly shunt any traffic they dropped as a simple detachment." The entire station staff, photographed inside the goods shed, c.1910 Three 1930's-but-useful (and interesting anyway) photos from Britain From Above here (really good one, can identify PO wagons and lots of activity), here and here The following photos, HC Casserly, 1926, are broadly representative but provide useful yard and shed details: Traffic: These Quarrying, woolen cloth, rubber production, brewing, ironfounders and engineers, leather, sawmills. Useful links: BoA Museum The wonderful Freshford.com Frith collection - an amazing collection, well worth a visit Kelly's Directory, 1911 - 1903, '07 and '15 also available. 1907 extract, '15 available and misc info here. STOP PRESS: In the '11 Directory (I have yet to check the others) Midland Railway Company is listed as a carrier. Does this mean that MR provided a service (an open wagon? A van? A road service? A choice?!) to carry parcels up to Bath, to be loaded on to a train at Queen Square? Wool and Coal - why BoA, Trowbridge and Frome lasted so long in the textile industry? Up on the fast archive - potential gold mine to be explored when poss... Cheers, Schooner

I don't know What are your thoughts? EDIT: I wonder if a 009 motor bogie would fit inside a stone block on a quarry trolley...or even a horsebox, as below, to allow empty trolleys to be worked with visual coherence...and I wonder if the harness traces could be made strong and rigid enough to hold the team of three horses just above the level of the track... Or perhaps use a coffee pot (see below) and rope-shunt the incline down to the Avoncliff stoneyard? Or all the above in combination... A problem for when I can have a physical play with the bits involved I feel, but very open to suggestions. Cheating is top of my list at the moment. There's only one 'proper' wharf on the layout, that at Box: ...which would make a cool little (!) layout all by itself. It isn't intended to serve an operational purpose*, so could be one large static diorama, as accurate as possible, including horses! This would then free Avoncliff up to be the 'fun' operational stone yard (smaller, simpler, easier, but functionally identical), with trains going there to pick up the stone that goes out to the system (Westmoreland, primarily). *Box tunnel seemed a given (how else would one lose the main line to London?!), and the Wharf was right there so it felt churlish to leave it out. However, access there will be minimal, it would only be scenic, and really the line should disappear into Box Middle tunnel, so it will probably be cut... Useful links: Choghole.co.uk, where I found many of these images and where many more reside. It's a fascinating site well worth a look even if, like me, your interest in quarrying is only passing. Scanman's inspirational stone yard Shunter! Finally found some really good collated information here. If you have a spare 5 mins, well worth a quick read It seems like the loco pictured below, at Ely, Glamorgan, in 1905, might well be The Box Loco, "...about the ugliest piece of machinery it is possible to conceive of." Built, probably to a Chaplin design if not by by them, before 1870 (when it is first mentioned, in the wonderful notice for a chapel fundraiser and reporting thereof in the Bath press, as in the link above) but probably after 1863 (when its only known driver, a George Mould, was still noted as working as a carter). The tramway on which it worked was laid in 1866, entering Pictor and Son's quarries through a relatively new (dug by 1859) entrance at Clift, so that all ties together quite neatly. The loco was only used underground, as the angle of the beds sloped down away from the entrance, meaning the load was against the gradient, and there were some steep gradients over a fault in the bed. From the surface to the wharf, gravity and horses. A normal max weight of a block from these quarries was 6 ton, not including the ton or so of trolley - this seems to be about what a team of 3 horses could manage. However 10 ton blocks were available by special order - strongly indicative that the loco worked the trolleys from bed to surface. "Clearances in the Clift roadway are tight in places, it is likely that the locomotive’s basic parameters were similar to those of a standard quarry trolley, ie 8 foot 6 inches long, 4ft wide, a wheelbase of 4ft 3in and wheel diameter of 1ft 8in, the height to the crown of the entrance arch is 7ft 5in. The tramway gauge was 2ft 5½in, the proximity of some pillars on some bends left little room for outside frames and cranks, a belief supported by two quarrymen’s graffitos depicting the locomotive. Both show wheels outside the frames, one, incredibly, shows a longitudinally-mounted 3-cylinder engine complete with pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft and valve rods, looking remarkably like a launch engine. Other features shown include the regulator, safety valve, hand brake, brake shoe and headlamp. The other graffito depicts a locomotive with a traction engine type footplate and bunker. Reduction gearing between the crank shaft and driving axle seems probable." - same source. Can anyone make out the last word of the inscription? "George Moulds With His Bloody Old Sh...?" The loco worked underground at Box for 27 years before being sold on for £40 - apparently rather more than its scrap value, suggesting further work and, long story short, lends credence to the idea of the Ely loco and the Box loco being one and the same. ...so...having found all that out it seems totally unrealistic to even try to depict it...but...it seems a crying shame not to have traffic moving on the tramway across the aqueduct. I'd just need an excuse for Clift Quarry's shunter to have ended up at Westwood Quarry... Given what's happened to the geography around here it's not impossible the two have linked up underground...! It's not right, and there's a small pang of guilt at that, but I think it would be 'better' to have an operational tramway down to an operational siding. Very very open to suggestions But it would be fun...and until I think of a way to represent convincing horses to work Avoncliff, I was toying with the idea of asking very nicely for a 009 version of Newman Minatures' Head Wrightson shunter, or perhaps this little beauty might do the trick (courtesy of RT Models): Rolling stock: Wooden trollies, dimensions c.8 foot 6 inches long, 4ft wide, a wheelbase of 4ft 3in and wheel diameter of 1ft 8in as above: Cheers, Schooner