Cofga

I went back and looked at the photos of the samples on the Accurascale website and I can see why they suggest against uncoupling the tender on a frequent basis. They appear to be using a multi-pin JST type connector for the wiring and those can be a pain to disconnect and you run the risk of pulling wires loose in the process. When working with the 9-pin JSTs on a decoder I use a hemostat to grip them but you can’t likely do that given the lack of space between the tender and engine. It will be interesting to see just how easily they do come apart, however given all the attention to details they have gone too so far I bet they have a solution for us!

I have made coal loads by carving a block of dense extruded polystyrene foam to fit the coal bunker, then painted it black and glued on the coal using PVA or epoxy. With a steel washer embedded in the block you can lift it out with a magnet. I also have done coal and rock loads for my hoppers (American models) by making foam masters, then using those to create silicone rubber molds. I then cast the basic loads in 2 part casting epoxy with an embedded steel washer. Finally afterwards I added the coal to the top using either type glue. As for the coal size I seem to remember reading it varied a lot based on source and time period. There is a reason hammers were part of the fireman’s kit, breaking up large lumps of coal apparently was a common necessity.

Just get a DCC Concepts Motive Power Depot. With one you can drive your loco right onto the integrated track, lift it off the layout and place it in the padded storage box without ever having to touch it much less disconnect the tender. The unit is so solid you can ship the loco in it and lift it from the box, put it on the layout and drive away. 

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

The cab sidesheets were also wrong on the original release, which was corrected.

It then had a downgraded motor. Went from 5 pole skew wound 2 flywheels to cheap three pole coreless, one flywheel.

 

Best ones are early chassis, late body. Watch out for body swaps on e-bay.

 

 

Yes, I actually ordered one with the LokSound decoder fitted and it ran horribly. After some investigation we reached the conclusion that the LokSound decoder had been tweaked for the original 5 pole motor and then when the cheaper one was swapped in, the performance tanked. I made numerous efforts to adjust the decoder but finally gave up and installed a SoundTraxx UK steam decoder and it runs well now, but of course it is too light or the motor too weak to pull much more than its tender on a flat! Back a couple of years ago @Harlequin posted this about the DG motor:

When I was researching these types of motor, looking for a replacement, I found out that they are mainly used in, ahem, personal massagers...

Which may explain why I am so concerned about motors.

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

To be honest i think the boys have this spot on as far as models times and numbers are concerned,once the batch is sold out its tough if you did not get one,theres been enough time to order them.Once they are gone the e bay prices are what ever someone wants to pay,better worth something than worthless if you or your family have to sell them.As far as e bay is concerned no one forces you to buy,it just takes two or more to want something then the skys the limit.....its up to the individual,i just commend how open and honest they are with us.

Yes but, these days everyone expects at least a second run so some will always sit on their hands and wait to see how the first batch turns out. When I got my GWR Mogul I wished I had waited as the version I preordered actually did not arrive with the outside steam pipes as originally listed and I had actually changed my order just for that detail—thanks Dapol! Had I waited I believe that version arrived in the second run. So there are arguments for the wait and see approach. And of course there is the uncertainty of two models of the same loco being promised at about the same time. Just look back at the large prairie kerfuffle.

Hattons says they are due in between July and September 2022 which is pretty close to that 6 month lead time estimate.

On 08/07/2022 at 07:32, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Harlequin,

 

I think it's very important to remember that the sound is in an early sample, and agree that it is hard to capture this on video, but there are also packaging in such a small loco to consider too. We will try our best, naturally.

 

It is also important to note that since this sample the PCB has been totally redesigned to allow more space and better motor control. We will go into detail on this in our update next week, and this is also a first draft sound file, in a pre-production model. The final model customers receive will naturally be a lot better. 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

I don’t know what speaker you used but for really good bass frequencies I have found that “high bass” speakers give the best sound for steam locos—much better than the flat round ones or even the best “sugar cubes”. 

Sorry, I have been otherwise occupied the last week and am just getting back to catching up on this thread. I seem to have stirred the pot a bit so let me say that from an accuracy standpoint I applaud the extent to which Accurascale has gone in producing a potentially great model. My only question concerns the performance and I hope to see they have found a really good performing motor for that end. Fran and Accurascale have made a good faith effort to answer relevant questions on that matter and for that I am thankful and applaud their willingness to provide these details. From the announcements it appears we will not have all that long to wait to see the final products from both companies. Given the positive reviews of the Accurascale Deltics, if they get even close to their details and performance their Manor will be a winner.  

I have been in this hobby 50 years and a contributing editor to a couple of model railroading magazines writing about DCC and other topics for over 30 years and in that time I have never seen a 3 pole motor that could operate as well as a 5 pole skew wound or coreless motor. Given that experience I am not willing to take the chance that Accurascale has managed to reinvent the wheel unless I see one in operation personally. 

I am preparing to order some crew for my Bulleid Pacifics and need some advice. On my Channel Packet the driver has a proper seat but the fireman has what looks like a shelf to lean on. On my East Asiatic both the driver and fireman have a similar shelf that appears too high to try and sit on so another leaner? My West Country Class locos have the same type of shelves for the driver and fireman so again are these just there for them to lean on. It mainly makes a difference for the drivers since in the first case he will need to be seated whereas with the other two locos it appears he will be standing. Thanks—Larry

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

It doesn't say it's iron cored

 

"Very high-quality 3-pole motor with flywheel, low starting voltage and smooth power delivery"

 

I agree and the lack of a precise description leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If there is no iron core then it is a coreless motor so why not say that?

On 02/02/2021 at 04:29, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @9402 Fredrick,

 

Soon! Sorry, all I can say right now! 

 

 

 

Hi @JaymzHatstand

 

Sure, the advantage of the 3 pole motor is lower current draw, a more linear performance when coupled to the flywheel for smooth power delivery, and packaging (not a lot of room in there!) It will be a quality, not cheap 3 pole motor too, so performance will be excellent. If it isn't, we will reject it and work on another solution. 

 

 

Good idea @Butler Henderson we will look into that. However, for now, please read into the others as "in service condition" rather than preserved. 

 

 

Ah @Harlequin, if only it was that simple! Yes, the scan would pick it up, but it would be impossible to scale correctly as they are so subtle when scaled to 1:76.2 Such distortion is usually achieved (thinking canvas on our coil A as a similar example) by a toolmaker taking a hammer and chisel to the tooling believe it or not. The whole point of the laser scan is merely as a reference guide to the designer to aid them in correctly drawing accurate CAD and a reference for shape and measurements. It does not generate into CAD itself.

 

EDIT - Also see @Islesy's point below! 

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

With respect to the 3 pole motor will it be skew wound or straight? Most quality models today have either a 5 pole skew wound or coreless motor. I am on the cusp of making a final decision as to which to buy so this 3 pole really is a concern for me. I would think by now you have this sorted out.

On 10/05/2022 at 02:50, Dunsignalling said:

Beware the description "Jerky runner" in the description of used Hornby locos. Many assume it will just need a service, but It often means it has a split gear that hasn't yet let-go completely.

 

Blackmoor Vale was one of the first set of releases of the air-smoothed Light Pacifics. If you need a new chassis and want to look for donor locos, the contemporary releases were Wilton, Tangmere and 92 Squadron, so you don't have to find another BV.   

 

John

Blackmoor Vale is the one that runs like new, it’s the more recent Torrington that has the split gear. The funny thing is I have 40 year old Athearn locos with their original “Made in America” axle gears that still run like new but the newer “Made in China” locos with a similar mechanism have split gears after just a few years of operation. The folks at AC Models and Spares wrote back that I need the replacement gear set so I am wondering whether the idler gear in that set is the same as the one used on the driver axle in these older locos. Problem is no supplier in the UK seems to have any of those either. I have one more trick to try this weekend and if that doesn’t work I may have to take up 3D printing!

18 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

"like new" is no guarantee, I'm afraid - a Schools class I bought was described thus ....... ignoring the severe case of mazak rot it was suffering from ; clearly hadn't had more than a cursory look by the retailer*.

 

* Not from Rails, but from the other side of northern England-

Sounds like it might have been the same dealer. The model of Blackmoor Vale I got from Rails was as near perfect as could be. The box looked like it just came out of a container from China and not a scratch or tyre wear to be found. I could easily be convinced it had never been out of the box in the last 20 years. Runs almost as smooth as both new Merchant Navy Pacifics with flywheels that I got last year. I am now really bummed as I heard back from Hornby and apparently the molds for the old models have been “lost” so there apparently are no replacements to be had unless one turns up as old stock at one of the shops that deal in spares. I guess it will make a good static model or for parts.

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Sounds like you may need to replace the whole gear train. 

My entertainment for the afternoon was to diagnose the problem by swapping the center driver from a loco that works great with the model giving me fits. As expected the problem followed the driver, so it is not a gear train issue just a bad gear on the driver. Looking closely it appears there is a small crack running from the axle outwards and exiting between two of the teeth. This creates a big enough gap between those teeth to allow the idler gear to skip and it happens once per revolution since that is where the crack is. So it is just going to sit on a shelf until Hornby imports a replacement gear or axle set. 

The positive side is I now know how to tear down and reassemble the entire driver assembly and associated parts. More fun than I bargained for when I bought this one. The lesson learned is only buy pre-owned locos from a dealer like Rails of Sheffield who now only sell pre-owned equipment on their website in “like new” condition. The rest apparently is relegated to their eBay store. At least the dealer I bought from refunded me £20 to cover my costs for a new driver set and Royal Mail shipping to the US. 

Didn’t work, still jerks once per revolution so there must be a gear tooth missing. I’ll have to check both the drive and idler gears to see what is amiss. This may just end up as a spare parts loco.

On 04/05/2022 at 12:21, John Tomlinson said:

 

I've never seen individual axles for sale. Try "Lendons of Cardiff" in Google. They are usually cheaper than Peter's, but may take a little while longer. Also "AC Models of Eastleigh" migght be an option.

 

John.

Thanks for the Lendons tip, but it appears no one in the UK has the replacements. I find it hard to believe that no one has a simple replacement gear for these. I bet an RC model shop has drawers full of similar gears so maybe a trip there will turn one up. At any rate I pulled the driver out today and the gear is not split but it has stripped on the inside where it contacts the axle splines so just spins. I will clean it up and try the superglue fix but am not hopeful as it is a very thin gear and not much contact surface area for a reliable bond. I’ll let you know in a few hours how it comes out.

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I can't remember which, but one of the gears in the replacement gear set (if available) is the same as that on the driven axle. 

 

It obviously requires that wheelset to be re-quartered on reassembly but, so long as you are OK with doing that, its much cheaper than a complete wheelset. 

 

The only one I've had to do was a good while ago (it's usually one of the other gears that splits, in my experience), but the quartering was reasonably easy to do because the wheels fit onto splined axles and if you get it nearly right visually, moving the wheel round by one spline should get it spot-on.

 

Make sure you keep the wheelset the same way round that it comes out, though, and replace any washers in the original order.

 

Good luck

 

John

 

 

Thanks, I’ve done this kind of thing before. I have found that if you scribe a line across the wheel/axle end you can easily get them back into perfect alignment when reassembling them. A light sanding of the axle end will then remove the scribed line. Actually the replacement set of drivers is only about £8 if and when they get them back in  stock again so may be an easier option than replacing a gear. I just need to find someone who has them in stock—is Peters Spares the only parts dealer in the UK? Of course shipping to NA may be double the cost of the drivers!

Well it appears that the main driver gear on my Torrington WCC pacific has split creating jumpy action when it does run and just spinning at other times. I checked Peters Spares and they are out of stock. Who else would be a possible source of Hornby spares? Also does any sell just the gear or the center driver, Peters Spares only stocks the full set of 3 replacement drivers. Thanks

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

You need "The Book of the West Country and Battle of Britain Pacifics" and the corresponding volume on the Merchant Navy class, both by Richard Derry, which detail when most changes were applied. The pace was such, though that some minor items simply didn't find their way into the works records they are based on.

 

The change to the "standard" length deflectors spanned a fair period, but would have been largely complete by 1950/1 (later locos never having had the short ones).

 

The extra-long sort were fitted  to just three WC locos 34004-7 and (AFAIK) only one MN, 35020, in connection with the interchange trials of 1948. They were retained until rebuilding by those that were, and until withdrawal the one that never was, 34006 'Bude' That's about as easy as any of this gets!

 

If you are modelling MNs in the 1940s (and possibly just into the 50s), be even more careful as there seem to have been intermediate types tried out between the early and eventual standard pattern.

 

The chronology of boiler pressure/safety valve alterations is even harder to track, and extended over the better part of a decade. There is no obvious pattern (age, mileage etc) to indicate a planned schedule, or at least not one that lasted long. That suggests it happened when other boiler work became necessary. A few boilers may even have retained the original specification until their locos came to be rebuilt! There are extra opportunities for modelling anachronisms in that boiler swaps occurred during overhauls, in which a few locos lost modified boilers and regained the earlier pattern, only to have those "done" later! Again, Mr Derry will be the saviour of your sanity, as has has for mine!

 

As with most aspects of these locos, you therefore really need to be chasing the service records of specific engines you wish to model. It rather gets out of hand if you try to duplicate what Mr Derry took a number of year to compile!

 

On the up-side, Hornby generally seem to get it right (insofar as it can be) in terms of loco/valves/tender emblem, but that won't help if you are re-naming and may not if you have chosen an especially precise modelling period!  

 

John.

 

 

Oh bother, I was afraid of that. I guess I’ll just consult the books and find a photo of the loco I want to model and make what changes I can plainly see, the valves and deflectors being most obvious. 

I am looking for approximate timeing on a couple of detail changes. First. when would the smoke deflectors have been extended from the short as-built version to the long or standard length versions? Second it is my understanding that the safety values were originally a cluster of 3 located in front of the whistle and that they were changed to 2 located to the rear of the whistle. Further I think these safety valve changes were made when the boiler pressure was reduced from 280 to 250 psi, correct? Are there any spreadsheets or webpages that list these dates owr even approximations? Thanks

On 14/09/2019 at 21:01, Dunsignalling said:

Nice lost-wax brass replacement steps are obtainable from RT Models.

 

A decent representation of the weather cover between tender and loco can be cut from cycle inner-tube repair sheet which is suitably ribbed on the grey side. I glue it beneath the little roof on the tender and tuck the other end under the cab. 

 

The stuff also makes good fall-plates that don't cause derailments by binding as rigid ones sometimes do.

 

John

 

Note: This example has gone a bit droopy but it has been on there about 17 years....

 

Long enough for quite a lot of my weathering to have gone AWOL also!

What were these weather covers made of? Were they rubberized canvas or just plain canvas? Finally were the sides convex as in your example or straight? Thanks

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Why not the New Haven I-5?

I do like the NH locos but there is evidence that N&W designer Frank Noel based the J Class design first on Southern Pacific GS locos but that one was deemed not fancy enough. Then he tried a design based on elongating the NYC Hudsons but that was too fancy. Finally he came back with the now classic streamlining and that bold red/maroon stripe on the glossy black body, coupled with the massive power of the J’s put them a class ahead. Besides, my grandfather worked for the N&W and during the 1980s excursion years they used to park no. 611 in Manassas VA where I lived and I got to explore it at will. I now model the Southern Railway mainline between Charlottesville and Lynchburg VA where several Southern trains were handed over to N&W J’s for the run across N&W territory. 

My interest in the Bulleid pacifics grew out of ads for the Battle Of Britain class models I saw during the 1970-80s in some US model magazines showing their distinctive nose treatment. That design stuck in my mind for 40 years and then I saw the recent Hornby releases in the Neville Grove YouTube Spamfest video and its been downhill ever since. 

21 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

They have been pretty good to match their tooling options to liveries.

 

My table, albeit possibly needing updating, can be found here https://sremg.org.uk/model/lpvar.html

Perfect, exactly what I was thinking of in my question, I’ll look forward to seeing your update. Although I had the link to the sremg website I had never dug down far enough to find your table and other info on the Bulleid pacifics. These have replaced the A4s as my favorite UK streamlined (air styled) steam locos. My favorites still are the USA Norfolk & Western J class 4-8-4 class and the Southern Railway Raymond Lowey streamlined 4-6-2—Larry

On 13/01/2022 at 17:14, Dunsignalling said:

Modified means the wedge-fronted cab with the swept-back windscreens, as opposed to the original flat-fronted sort.

 

Although they look almost the same as the 8' 6" modified cabs, the 9' ones on the BR-built locos (34071-34110) weren't strictly "modified"; they were built that way. So were the 8' 6" ones fitted to the last few SR-built locos (21c164-21c170, later 34064-34070). The first of those was actually built with the original style but was altered prior to entering service.   

 

All the earlier engines received the cab modification, some very quickly, but 34015 Exmouth wasn't "done" until 1957, long after the rest had been dealt with. However, unless the locomotive was rebuilt, the cabs remained 8' 6 " wide.

 

An exception arose only in preservation, as 34067 Tangmere got a 9' cab to match its much-altered third-series Merchant Navy tender. Route availability is based on the dimensions of the engine so being narrower than its tender would have prevented its return to the main-line network.

 

John

Given the changes that took place over just a span of a few years in the late 1940s just how closely has Hornby been at pairing the correct livery with the correct cab configuration and the correct tender? Are there any spreadsheets that present all this information in a concise manner, particularly the tender information?