Wordsmith

On 19/08/2019 at 06:49, WIMorrison said:

@Wordsmith

1.  Do you want to have Railcom for automatic loco identification on your automation program?  Often dismissed by people not familiar with the benefits of Railcom on an automated layout I would consider this as a must for any new layout.

So, I was working through this list of questions, and I focused on the above one. 

https://www.locgeek.com/2012/10/railcom-railcom-plus-what-are-these/

So, it looks as if Railcom/RailcomPlus provides feedback for an DCC controller/computer controlled layout, but what is the actual benefit for a computer controlled layout? A little bit of further research suggests that Railcom ties in with breaking up the track into sections and using a feedback module to determine whether a section is occupied or vacant. Railcom then enables block control and more, plus scripting of locomotive movements. Have I got that right?

I presume Railcom ties me in with a sub set of manufacturers - not all DCC equipment manufacturers support Railcom. So , if I want to use Railcom, I have to use a compatible controller?

Finally, is there a decent book available on computer control for model railways? I had a look on Amazon, but there wasn't a stand out choice. I found books on many aspects of railway modelling, but not computer control.

Cheers,

Wordsmith

Thanks all - I have obviously got quite a bit of reading and thinking to do. 

This looks a more complex problem than I anticipated. 

And thanks all for the other replies - this isn't going to be as simple as I thought...

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

@Wordsmith

 

The question you pose is almost as open a question as can possibly be asked and could result in as many recommendations as there are options on the market. There are several considerations that you could make that might limit the choices available and help in recommending a system to buy into.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer - replies below.

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Considerations are

1. Do you want to connect from the computer to the layout via USB or wired LAN or WiFi?  There are many that support USB through add-ons, there are fewer that support LAN and fewer that support Wi-Fi.

Almost certainly USB/wired LAN. 

1. What control protocol do you wish to use?  LocoNet has the best range of products available, but RS Bus, RBus, Xpressnet, CBus, Canbus, S88 are all options and there are very few systems that support multiple protocols

 Looks like I've got some reading to do. I thought most controllers were broadly compatible with each other. 

1. Would you like to use walk-about Wi-Fi controllers? There are very few systems that support the use of Wi-Fi controllers. The Wi-Fi controllers can either be dedicated units or software installed on your phone - or even both.

 No, I'd be happy with one (or at the most two) hand held controllers. The aim is to build a double tracked oval circuit with a station and fiddle yard. Assorted computer controlled passenger and goods trains can run round the  oval with manual shunting around the station. If it's possible to computer control the shunting as well, I'd probably do that -  but automated shunting may be a bit of an ask.

1.  Do you want to have Railcom for automatic loco identification on your automation program?  Often dismissed by people not familiar with the benefits of Railcom on an automated layout I would consider this as a must for any new layout. 

More reading required.   :o(

1. What is your level of expertise in building electronic kits?  If you are confident then there are some available kits that will reduce the costs but increase the complexity and range if options available.

Basic - I can solder and I know the basics of electronics. But i'd probably be better with 'off the shelf' to start with.

1. Commercial or Open-source automation?  Many will immediately say Open-source in the belief that this is free and reduce the costs. There are 2 major commercial packages available with one less than 50% the cost of the other yet providing all the features of the other. Commercial has the usual advantages in integration and look and feel.

Depends on the O/S for the open source material. If it's Linux (Ubuntu) I might take a look. (I'm Linux literate, but my scripting skills are poor).

1. Your desire to build now and consider automating later, or design for automation properly and build later?  this is very important as  building then later automating is fraught with difficulties and frustration. The best advice is to design for automation now, simulate in your chosen package to iron out issues, then build and automate at the same time.

Design for automation - therein lies the fun of operating a layout for me. The intent is to start with a very simple "run train to station - return train to fiddle yard" trial and gradually build to a complex timetable.  Hence the initial 4 ft x 2 ft layout - just big enough for me to experiment.

1. What level of flexibility and future expansion do you want?  This is important as some systems will offer what you need to start, but are difficult and/or expensive to upgrade from. Others whilst more expensive at the start will last a lifetime and support any size of system.

I can't see the 12 ft x 3 ft layout getting bigger than 12 - 15 locos and 30 - 40 points.  Enough to have fun with, but I don't want it to consume limitless amounts of time.

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I have used both approaches in question 7, and am presently helping automate an existing exhibition quality layout and this has taken almost a year already and it is nowhere near complete. Conversely, I recently assisted in the electronic paper development of a large new layout that was being designed expressly to automate and that was completed in 3 months and it operated correctly when first switched on. I suggest strongly that there is a lesson here.

 

This list isn't complete but I think it does bring out some major issues that need to be considered before you can decide on what to buy, it is a very important decision and I personally think that there are only 2 options, for both hardware and software that could be as cheap as around £350 for software and command station up to £1000 for another option with my preferred option sitting at around £450. 

 

I'd mentally budgeted around £500 for controller and software. I'd like a workable solution, but not a Rolls Royce of one.

14 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I have deliberately not specified a specific system at this stage, but consideration of the above will enable the correct and informed decision to be made, once and once only.

 

Thanks - the detailed answer is much appreciated. I'm quite happy nibbling away at buying a couple of coaches or some wagons and points each month until I've worked out what I need controller/software wise. It looks like a period of reflection and research is in order.

A newbie question…

Some background – I’m under four years off retirement and wanted to take up railway modelling as a hobby again when I do retire. I last did it as a spotty teenage fifty odd years ago, so I’m well out of touch. I’m planning to model in N gauge as I can get a reasonable layout into a 12 ft x 3 ft space.

I started buying £50 or £75 a month of track, rolling stock and so on at the start of the year and have built a 4 ft x 2 ft baseboard for test purposes. I quite enjoyed building the actual layout in the dim and distant, so don’t think that will have changed. But manually running the layout doesn’t appeal – I like the idea of computer control for the bulk of it with a fiddle yard along the back of the layout and (if possible) trains starting/running/stopping under DCC/computer control.

The intent of the test baseboard is to put in a simple oval of track with a passing loop, head shunt and a couple of sidings to find out how DCC/computer control works.

I was originally going to buy a Gaugemaster Prodigy "Advance 2" starter DCC controller package but that’s been out of stock for months – a quick scan of the form suggests supply problems in China. So, if I was going to buy a DCC controller and computer program that would let me both experiment and then eventually run a full-size layout, what would people recommend?

[Links to pertinent threads are fine if people don’t want to (re)answer what might be an oft answered question].

Thanks in advance,

Wordsmith