Halvarras

3 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

 

Pretty sure the centre wheelsets are 4 inches smaller in diameter on the 1:1 models

So at 4mm scale the centre wheelsets would be slightly over 1mm less in diameter, so viewing from three feet away it would be imperceptible.

 

And that is good enough for me

 

Oddly enough the Hornby Railroad 31 does have smaller wheels on the middle axles, although in all other respects hardly in the same league.....!

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Do you not sleep?!!

 

Mike.

Making full use of 20 hours per day, the only explanation........surely?!

(Makes me feel so........inadequate 😞!!)

( 😉 )

On 17/02/2022 at 10:29, Barclay said:

It was a 4000HP diesel prototype built by Brush. Successful I believe but BR were already thinking "HST" by that time so there were no orders and it was sold to Russia. Since then it has become something of a myth or legend that it may still exist somewhere in the former USSR and could one day be re-patriated. I think, however, that there is fairly good evidence that is was scrapped in the 90's.

1993 comes to mind - a rather sad photo of it dumped in bushes exists.......

On 05/02/2024 at 06:59, phil-b259 said:

 

Bachmanns only involvement with Kernows models* is that in recent times Bachmann have distributed some of Kernows models through the EFE brand**.

 

Kernow have never had anything made any of their own designs made for them by Heljan either.

 

However......Kernow's relationship with Dapol may have been a bit wobbly at times but the internal packaging for the D600 Warship is clearly derived from the Dapol Western - the detail blister pack even has the recesses for the Western's spare bufferbeam valances. Commonality of parts with Dapol's Class 22/29 would have been limited (cab glazing, cab interiors, spoked wheels, bufferbeam details?) so Dapol's precise level of involvement with the D600 is unknown (to me anyway) - possibly limited to the factory involved.

On 04/02/2024 at 14:15, 4630 said:

Interesting photo. 12051 was quite well travelled too up and down the LMR before its eventual withdrawal on 9th October 1971 when allocated to Allerton depot.

 

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=12051&type=D&loco=12051

I see what you mean -  perhaps 12051 suffered from persistent reliability issues which resulted in it being passed around a lot........!

10 minutes ago, LittleRedTrain said:

 

Bit cheeky that it's the same price as the light-fitted ones... I haven't checked under the body yet to see if the gubbins are there.

 

Heljan has form - their unpowered Class 25 'Ethels' are the same price as the powered models!

According to the Parkin book on BR Mark 1 stock the switch from crimson and cream to regional colours occurred in May 1956; the back pages contain a list of initial allocations by Region (the author acknowledges that this is an attempt at compiling this information as he had not been able to check against primary sources, but he believes it to be largely correct). There is also a list of lot numbers with running number ranges and completion dates, so from both lists it is possible to work out the number ranges for CK and BCK vehicles supplied to the Western Region during the crimson and cream years (I had trouble finding a batch of CKs after W15584 so I curtailed the search at mid-1955):

CK - W15059-15064 - Lot No. 30022 - January 1952

        W15065-15131 - Lot No. 30005 - October 1953

        W15425-15435 - Lot No. 30076 - October 1953

        W15436-15442 - Lot No. 30081 - April 1954

        W15533-15542 - Lot No. 30081 - August 1954

        W15583-15584 - Lot No. 30135 - July 1955

BCK - W21020-21024 - Lot No. 30034 - January 1954

           W21060-21091 - Lot No. 30133 - May 1955

Note - some of these lots all went to the WR, others were split with other Regions and just the WR vehicles within them are shown.

Hope this helps!

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I think the best solution for modellers is to contact the manufacturers, not necessarily just Accurascale, and confirm exactly the time and date they would like their loco's livery to be in, I'm sure they will love the challenge of researching the correct details to satisfy a myriad of requests, heaven forbid that railway modellers actually do any modelling eh?

 

Mike.

The point I was trying to make is that, when planning a livery, a little effort into selecting the optimum period for that variation should be considered by the manufacturers, and as @MidlandRed said above, it is much easier to paint D prefixes over than to add them, along with data panel transfers if required. No criticism of Accurascale as I believe they have done this with D5803.

As an example of how not to do it, Hornby shot itself in the foot with its first green-liveried super-detailed Class 08 release by giving it a post-steam number, 3256, with data panels to boot. The positioning of the number on the cabside didn't leave enough space to add the D even if one which happened to match could be found. Yes, to make this suitable for the popular 'transition era' some actual modelling was required to fully renumber it and delete the data panels, but those relatively few modellers who model the immediate post-steam years (including me) would have far less trouble painting out the D's and adding data panels. As it was, quite a few 'transition era' layouts appeared in the magazines with a post-steam Class 08 shunting the yard!

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Running a rake of coaches through a carriage wash would soonm change the appearance of a loco

It certainly changed the appearance of many diesel-hydraulics......😀!

This one's worth investigating.....

......although whether it collected the BR early crest with the BR lettering painted over while in black livery, or during a later repaint into green, is debatable. Dirt- ingrained black and green liveries are notoriously difficult to differentiate in old colour photos. Either way it's remarkable how the paint has worn away to leave the old lettering so legible. 

What is undeniable is the full yellow end on the Class 40 parked behind, which dates the photo to 1967-on.

6 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I sincerely hope not as it had lost its Ds when on the WR - it was on the ER for some time (with its Ds) in green, fye, central arrows in the late 60s, which is the era I’m after!! I’m sure you’ll be able to obtain 82A stencilled shed codes from one the specialist transfer guys, and delete the Ds easily enough (not quite so easy to add them

6 hours ago, russ p said:

I've ordered D5803 not very ER if it has those stickers

I agree, if the model has Ds it shouldn't have WR depot stickers, and this would be the best solution for purchasers. Painting out the prefix would be prototypical and easy as there's no need to ensure a perfect paint match, and Railtec can supply the depot stickers, although IIRC these went through a number of rapid changes in the early 1970s - depot name + old code, name only, name + new code, then just new code!

On 02/02/2024 at 01:13, MidlandRed said:

 

@Halvarras as well as the varnished and re-logoed locos, there were quite a large number of class 30/31s put into blue livery in 1967/8 with the four arrows and inboard numbers (with Ds). Presumably the criteria Doncaster used was the general state of the paintwork? 
 

@russ p Accurascale are doing D5803 in green, FYE, central arrow logos - I sincerely hope so as I have one on pre-order!! However I’m not sure if you actually meant the green/four arrow logos? 

Yes, a large number received four arrows on blue, with Ds to start with and without after the end of steam in August 1968. A few went on to acquire TOPS numbers in this condition, applied in various ways! The switch to a single arrow per side - no doubt an economy measure - occurred around Spring 1969, affecting Classes 24, 25, 31, 37, 42/43 & 47 - what isn't clear to me, because by the end of the 1960s I'd only seen half a dozen Class 31s and all of bar two of those were during late December 1969! - is, which blue repaints were next after D5649 (10/66) and when? If I had to guess I'd say D5639 and D5659 which were regular Royal Train locos for a while.........but we're wandering a bit off-topic!

AIUI Accurascale's D5803 is green FYE with arrows.......but will it have Bristol Bath Road depot stickers?!

2 hours ago, BrushVeteran said:

 

I understand Russell Saxton had a photo of 31294 in green livery. He and I collaborated on quite a few livery subjects and it would be shame if all of his extensive research was 'lost'. I do hope that someone may have his archive somewhere.

 

Me too - we made contact in the wake of the 'Un-corporate Image' supplement compiled by John Hague for 'BRM and 'Traction' magazines which we both contributed to - over 20 years ago now. He was excited to learn that I still had all of my spotting books with livery notes from the 1970s (and Black Sabbath albums from the same period, but that's another story 😉!) We exchanged photos too, and I still have all those he sent me including that one of 31294 which from memory shows it passing through Bristol Parkway light engine, believed to be on its way to Doncaster 2/3/74 so a last-minute record - trouble is, it's near head-on and quite 'fuzzy' so the number isn't clearly legible, but just about good enough to confirm it starts with a '3'. Unfortunately a few days ago the now rather elderly family laptop succumbed to 'File system error (-2147219196)', apparently the result of a dodgy Microsoft update, which prevents access to images (amongst other things) on older laptops with certain processors running Windows 10 - this seems to be a widespread problem and growing, and Microsoft's silence on the issue is troubling....... hopefully to be resolved one way or another soon. Anyway, I'm surprised nobody photographed 31294 upon arrival at Donny - 5818 was captured there with '31286' chalked on its cabside, photo appeared in 'Modern Railways' magazine, so that laid rumours of another TOPS green 31 to rest (5668 was still green in Jan '74 so 31241 must have been a close call too!)

At least Russell managed to get his livery books on 'Green to Blue' and the WR hydraulics published, and I made every effort to purchase those issues of 'Railways Illustrated' which contained his articles on dates to blue for individual classes. His sudden passing was a shock, and one of three railway acquaintances lost during 2021, all younger than me which is somewhat concerning.......

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

So it's all your fault!

Actually I very nearly did claim responsibility, but back-spaced as I'm pretty certain it was just coincidental and there were greater forces in play......it's all very sad though, and I'll wish the staff all the very best one more time.

Another reason I liked to check in was just in case I recognised a model I used to own, or repainted for somebody else - I got through quite a lot in the 1970s/80s. Never happened though as I suppose they were still needles in a haystack.......I wonder if this happened to anyone? I did once recognise a reworked Lima Class 47, D1838 in weathered two-tone green which belonged to George Dent - it appears in his book on detailing and modifying RTR diesels and electrics. 

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The night before Hattons stopped taking pre-orders I had a look at the pre-owned uploaded that day. I don't think I've bought any S/H from Hattons previously but there in front of me was a Class 56 'kit unknown make'. A quick look showed it was obviously (to me) and MTK kit. They wanted £42 which is generally beyond what I will pay for MTK models but this was a chance to buy something from Hattons right at the end, and the Class 56 is not a common MTK model. It was advertised as a 'poor runner'...

 

Well it turned up today, and I have to say is beautifully built. It's fitted with an Airfix A1A mechanism which needed a service and then was fine. The only other change I have made is to swap out the glazing - the model came with clear sheet glazing but I had a spare set of MTK Class 47 glazing which with a small amount of adjustment allowed flush glazing and a 'frame' effect around the front screens. OK it's not Cavalex but it is a worthy addition to my heritage MTK fleet.
 

That is a very decent paint job on an MTK kit - very neat work by somebody. Not surprised you're chuffed with that acquisition!

When I was working my evening ritual at 5.31pm was checking Hattons pre-owned before leaving for home "while waiting a bit for the traffic to clear" (my standard excuse if challenged over why it took me 45 minutes to do a 25-minute commute!)

I retired nearly 5 years ago (blimey....!) but every evening when 5.30pm came around the habit proved impossible to break, although as I felt my collection was reaching a conclusion and money was a bit tighter the number of purchases did fall off. The odd thing is, after all those years I had finally decided that one of my New Year's Resolutions 2024 was to finally stop the ritual, partly because I'd become more acutely aware that every purchase added another box to the pile as well as another project to the round tuit pile! Even so it was tough avoiding a sneak peek every day......after all it only took a few minutes......but little did I know my wobbly resolution would be so promptly enforced by a totally unexpected event.

So there it is - the Hattons habit ended, Warley ended, and down here in Cornwall the last chunks of scrapped CDA china clay wagons will be carted off today and the semaphores and signal boxes at three locations are now in their final month. All change.....

The shade of BR blue seen on 40075 above was also used on Bachmann's Classes 08, 24, 25, Warship, Peak and Deltic of similar vintage (not sure about the 47, perhaps someone with a 47035 can confirm?) It looks a bit murky to me but I live with it as life's too short to respray a blue loco blue (Dapol's first Class 22 releases excepted - but then no way was that BR blue!)

40075 also suffered from undersized numbers, and hails from that thankfully brief period when Bachmann mysteriously lost the knack of printing accurately-proportioned BR double-arrow logos; I have Deltic 55020 like that, truly awful - when I changed its identity to 55003 'Meld' (in memory of the real one's Paddington - Cardiff run in October 1975) I had to change the logos as well - wrong shape and size!

The first tranche of Landore-allocated dual-braked Westerns were D1013/15/25/26/31/55/61/62/63/66/69, if this helps. d1066 was first. These became extremely rare birds in the far South West during 1968/9, the reason why D1031 was my penultimate cop at Exeter 9/69 and D1015 making me wait another 9 months to clear them........it may be famous now but it was infamous to me back then!

All Westerns were dual-braked during general overhauls at Swindon Works, as it was no simple task - therefore from 1968-on they'd all have been in BFYE livery. Regardless of how many pipes Dapol fit to their models there were no dual-braked maroon ones!

5 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

Did any other classes of locos in Green have double arrows?

Class 01 D2956 (ex-Departmental 81 and the second one to carry this number, albeit briefly in 1967).

Class 03 D2048/57.

Class 08 D3940.

Class 11 12108.

Various Class 15s!

Class 23 D5908 (modelled by Heljan).

Class 24 5069/81/92, 5113 (5092 became 24092, 5069/81 not certain, 5113 no).

Class 25 7564 (very briefly in mid-1973!)

Class 27 5406.

Lots of Class 31s!

Class 37 6849, 6921/32/50/82 (6932/50 became 37232/50).

Class 55 D9010 (modelled by Accurascale).

Not a single Class 47 (ignoring 47256's short-lived single-tone green repaint in 1978) - it was definitely an ER thing, mostly Doncaster but I guess Stratford did the Class 15s......?

The above is just a memory trawl, there were certainly a few others I've forgotten or never knew about......(I'm sure there was another Class 08.......or was it a '10'?)

Lovely pics, many thanks for posting. I first clocked 5557 stabled at Leicester from a (diverted) passing train in July 1970 and was very surprised to see it as I had no idea such a variation existed. 

I really must get my model of green 31294 finished this year (Airfix body on Hornby Railroad chassis), it has sat around for far too long. 31294 was the first green TOPS mainline diesel I saw, at Reading on 16/2/74........gosh, that's just days away from 50 years ago, and I can still picture it approaching down light engine through platform 4 with no number visible on the nearest corner - strange how some things stick in the mind! But at least I can confirm it wasn't a myth 😉!!

1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

Did 5623 5557 and 61 have these with small panels and later style numbers? 

No - 5557/61 appeared like this so late that they didn't get the Ds, so post-September 1968 and probably the last green ones to get double arrows. Most of not all of the green double arrow 31s with the later number style seemed to have received Ds, even if painted out later, so Doncaster turned out a lot in a short time although a photo of Class 37 D6888 just outshopped from there in Gfye livery with new numbers (but old emblem) dated 5/2/67 shows they made an early start with both that number style and FYE on green locos (Donny turned out D5649 and Deltic D9002 in blue around October 1966, then didn't bother doing any more for a while!)

There was some 'mix n match' on the 31s as some appeared with old logo and new numbers (5551 and 5632 come to mind) and others with new logo and old numbers, but I would imagine the latter were those which originally ran with SYP and old numbers with Ds (which are the ones you're really interested in, of course!), and at some later point they gained full ends and lost the Ds, like so many other locos did after the end of steam.

The Western Region received quite a few Gfye Class 31s with double arrows in 1971/2 - 5617/68/90/92, 5803/12/14/18/23/24/26/27/28/42/43 (from memory). Also 5809 with old emblem. 5668, 5818/27 made it into 1974 still in green but only 5827 managed to acquire its TOPS number, 31294..........for two weeks!

A couple, including 5623, had the double arrow applied centrally between the stripes instead of close up under the top one. 5557/61 received arrows on all four cabsides and bodyside numbers without D prefixes (as above) - I liked this variation and repainted an Airfix model as 5557 more years ago than I care to remember.......😊!

I think D5513 was the only Class 30 like this (that looks like a Mirrlees engine exhaust......?)

I have an undated postcard somewhere showing D5610 in GSYP with arrows.

2 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Photo by Simon David Cooper : 50 035 at Manc. Vic. on 27th January 1975...

 

One out on the ID Nidge! Never mind, the number's legible. IIRC there was a pause in their inter-regional reallocation when 35 locos had moved to the WR, leaving 15 on the LMR including this one which became my last required 50, copped while standing atop Langstone Rock near Dawlish Warren on 22/5/76.

I've posed this question before but just in case the right person is reading this - did 50034 acquire nameplates in this original livery, as 50017 did? The 50s had a habit of doing such things in pairs (and I don't mean double-heading!) so I'm hoping it's true, to maintain this tradition!

That 'ledge' in front of the windscreen was apparent on the latest 7mm scale 47 too, so I fear it has translated to the 4mm version. The original 47 may have attracted criticism for its excess girth, but at least the 'ledge' was correct, so one has to wonder how this backward step can happen (I felt the same way about the Bachmann Class 43 Warship's weird gearing when the old Class 42 was so good).

This kind of thing only serves to increase my appreciation of Lima's toolmakers decades ago. I'm interested in seeing Hornby's two-tone green livery application to the ex-Lima 47 (now pushed back to September) - hopefully it won't have the headlamp........ I have some A1 Models etched original fixed roof grilles, a set turned brass buffers with etched backing plates and a Hornby underframe (battery box donor) looking for a home.....!

8 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Yes it did - the ones with the folded up edges.  I find making my own from plasticard easier and more user-friendly.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Also I notice that the Plastruct angle section forms the bottom of the solebar channel which the lower edge of the body then sits on, allowing a secure fit for the underframe end-to-end as well as a neat appearance - something the supplied simple flat U-section aluminium floor can't provide. The important thing is to get the bodyshell perfectly square, i.e. no twist - I know from experience that this is easier said than done with MTK kits! The centre car of my 1975-built Class 119 wasn't great and the Thompson BG I built a few years later had a noticeable gap above one bogie so to try to disguise it I glued in a strip of metal behind the 'solebar' to deepen it a bit. Those had alu bodies, the only brass shell I ever tackled was a Hawksworth SK (had to have one in blue/grey livery!) - that was some years later and the previous efforts' learning curve paid off........