Halvarras

On 22/02/2020 at 21:17, w124bob said:

 

Of note is 6111 with discs still running in 1967/8 the caption doesn't confirm for sure the date but it's stabled with a blue cl29. 

And that blue Class 29 has a data panel, which suggests the photo was taken at some point after D6111's withdrawal. The latter's dirty windscreens would support this.

Talking of data panels, I note that Dapol's Gfy 6112 correctly has these, but Bfy 6107 doesn't - surely they'd have been applied by the time its D prefixes had been painted over......?

On one of my, er, very frequent visits to Truro station in the late '60s I recall seeing somebody on a stretcher being 'loaded' through one of these windows. They were wheeled into position on a trolley with pneumatic tyres which nobody ever seemed to get around to pumping up by a porter we called Lurch (you'd know why if you saw him  !)

Having become interested in railways in 1966 and living in Cornwall, it's any and all hydraulics for me, but particularly the Western Class 52s.

And especially those full-bore standing starts at the 1 in 60 up to Highertown Tunnel out of Truro's platform 2.

Here's a driver enjoying his job! Imagine those twin Maybachs roaring..............Western Glory, yes indeed!!

They certainly explain the otherwise odd positioning of those cab side OHLE flashes - a clue I missed! Your suggested reason for D4 remaining unique sounds logical.

D6' s full yellow ends appeared to have been only just applied, the white stripes had been painted out but not the D prefixes - perhaps the painter had dived off for a quick cup of tea!

I first noticed those slipping standards on Deltic 9000 at Kings Cross in late '72, the numbers were too high. Many Class 40s became similarly defective around that time! 

I admit to never noticing D4' s extra footsteps below the nose grilles and nose top handrails before - was the intention to make reaching the windscreens easier for cleaning? Any other Peaks so modified?

This despite getting my own (b&w Instamatic) photo of D4 at Toton on 26/7/70, also D6 with newly applied FYEs on green. On that day - this then Cornish spotter's one and only visit to the depot - D1-4/6-11 were present, D5 was away at Derby Works about to become the second BR blue Class 44 but I'd already bagged that one 8 months earlier so happy days! I also scored D12 later that day. My Class 44 wrap-up very nearly didn't happen - getting from Blackwater on the Reading-Redhill line to Toton and back by train and bus on a Sunday was an absolute nightmare!

Great photos by the way - modellers should note the neat alignment of BR arrows and running numbers, this commenced with XP64 D1733 and held firm on locos with cabside logos and bodyside numbers (positions reversed on some Class 47s) until around 1972 when standards began to slip.....

True, but no more than half a dozen. The WR' s first two eth conversions were early blue 1932 and green 1936, in late 1971. Since the WR had no eth stock at the time I believe they were loaned to Gateshead for the summer of 1972 and worked the ECML. They became 47493 and 47494 still in early blue and green respectively. A few of the 11xx series were eth fitted whilst still in green, I can't recall which ones offhand but under TOPS they were renumbered within the 4752x range.

When I say 'a host of issues' I should narrow this down to decoration, they seem fine technically, although I admit to not owning any of these at present. 

Dapol seemed to have a fixation on the Scottish Region for their initial Class 122 releases, strange considering they didn't reach those parts until 1967. Green SC55007 may have received small yellow panels before losing its original 'joined-up' exhaust but surely this would have been chopped by 1967. Was it even sent to the ScR in green livery?

I couldn't help noticing that Dapol's N gauge Class 122s in green didn't have 2-character headcode panels either - surely even printed ones would have been better that nothing in that scale.

I'd certainly have drawn a line at counting identifiable cab shells sitting on the ground at e.g. Derby Works as cops, never mind the sad spectacle of flame-cut number panels in later years, but an entire body shell qualified in my book!

23 hours ago, keefer said:

found mention of the bubblecars in the Nov.1969 RO:

"[Describing the use of set numbers in the Glasgow area] Those set numbers allocated to Hamilton West (66C) have been taken from a current official list and are as follows:

Set. No.     Coach no. 

00/11/13   SC55000/11/13 (all still actually prefixed W)

02/5/7       SC55002/5/7, with Driving Trailers SC56291/7/9 (55005,56291/9 still prefixed M)"

One of the Ian Allan combos in the late 60s/early 70s has a photo of Driving Trailer 56291 in BSYP livery, described as SC prefixed (as listed) but presumably M then. Number not legible but hopefully correct!

Dapol' s Class 121/122 models have a host of issues, only one of which is SC55013 in blue as a passenger vehicle - if it was a parcels unit in green and never had seats reinstated, how.....?

Back in September 2016 while on holiday in South Devon we visited the Trago Mills emporium in Newton Abbot where I found a book "Western Branches, Western Byways" by Kevin McCormack. In this is a colour photo of 9635 waiting at Newquay with a Truro via Perranporth working in 1961 displaying GWR on its side tank and in much the same condition as 8783 in Karhedron's photo above. Having an avid interest in Cornwall's railways I bought the book mainly for this photo!

Twenty minutes later I was viewing the large indoor model railway there and was gobsmacked to find a Bachmann model of 9635 in GWR green in a display case! Catalogue number 32-208A. What were the chances?! 

I checked its allocation and IIRC it came to Truro shed from Tyseley, only stayed for that summer and went to Taunton via Swindon Works - I found a b&w photo of it outside A Shop freshly repainted with late BR emblem but the outline of the 'G' was still visible under the paint. The running gear appeared untouched suggesting just enough attention to keep it going a while longer.

It does seem bizarre that the SR only had one mainline diesel type to deal with, got off to a good start by adding yellow warning panels to D6530 in 1962 as expected but still had some examples without any yellow into 1968! One of these was D6585 which I saw ex-works blue at Exeter on 2/1/69 as 6585 (without data panels - now that must have been a rare combination). D6583 was another one, still plain green in May 1968. The question is, did they go straight from plain green into blue full yellow? I think so - some certainly did, especially amongst the 33/1 push-pull conversions. 

The derbysulzers website has a section on Class 33, including some green livery observations and an incomplete listing of dates into blue. Some of these are estimated, but what is apparent is that during 1967 the SR prioritised the push-pull conversions over the rest, and this may have contributed to those long-lived plain green ones. Plus of course they had rather a lot of EMUs to process! 

Some of the Class 33/0s I can recall in blue with D prefix are D6503/55/58/69/79/89. Heljan modelled D6506 in this condition too, I'd assume this is correct. 

Other locomotives which I reckon went straight from plain green into blue full yellow were Class 20s D8030/2 and Class 22s D6333/34. Unlike other Works Swindon and Inverurie continued to use block serif numbers throughout 1967 - Class 22 overhauls at the former ceased at the end of that year so none were seen with the later-style numbering with D prefixes. A motive power shortage in 1970, and lack of diesel-electric replacements, resulted in overhauls restarting and 6308/19/26/30/38/48/52/56 being outshopped in final variant blue full yellow livery.

4 hours ago, slilley said:

 I cant do that but a number of locos did wear blue with D prefix numbers, several Class 33s for one. It is quite a rare combination. Many of the Deltics wore blue with a D number.

Repaints into blue with D prefix occurred over a 2-year period (roughly autumn 66 to autumn 68) and a lot of locomotives went through works in that time so I wouldn't describe the combination as particularly rare.

Amongst the last locos still carrying Ds on blue were Peak Class 45s still awaiting overhauls in 1974 - D109 & D126 come to mind. Two-tone green D1103 still had Ds into 1973 and ttg D7659 still had these plus small yellow warning panels at Willesden in October 73 (although it had been dual-braked!)

The last loco I saw still carrying its pre-TOPS number (Westerns excepted) was 53 'Royal Tank Regiment' at BNS on 19/4/75.

17 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Shed Bash

 

St Blazey - Saturday 29 June 1946 - 2827

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2017_07_20_archive.html

 

Penzance - Tuesday 2 July 1946 - 2841

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2017_07_12_archive.html

News to me, but I'm always interested to find out about 'new' motive power in Cornwall. In my defence my books don't go back that far!

After 45 years away from Cornwall I'm about to move back to be within walking distance of St Blazey shed, not that there's much to see there these days. I remember it full of hydraulics........sigh.

I have a lot of books on Cornwall's railways and I don't recall seeing any photos of these locos in any of them. I believe that the last main line steam run to Penzance behind 34002 'Salisbury' on 3rd May 1964 actually arrived at Plymouth behind 2887, was there a reason the 2-8-0 couldn't cross the Tamar, requiring the use of a 'foreigner'?!

Could one have turned up but not been recorded? Who knows - I'm aware of just one photo of a BR Standard 4MT (75025) in Cornwall, at Penwithers Junction in 1954.  Just before this BR had been showing off its new hardware in the form of 'Britannias' 70019 & 70024 working the down 'CRE' to Penzance, they were short-lived (local crews didn't like them) but there are a number of photographs of those.

I like 'Britannias', I used to have a Tri-ang-Hornby one with Magnadhesion, Synchro-Smoke and everything!

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit now....

Neil

I've seen a colour photo of D1733 with the logos, looking dirty and on a freight. We all know how quickly locomotives could get dirty, even in summer, and I don't think it ran with logos in traffic for very long. I've seen it reported that the vinyl logos became a bit dog-eared and somebody eventually peeled them off and stuck them to the inside wall of Old Oak Common' s Pullman shed, although I find it hard to believe that a BR employee would take it upon themselves to do this without authorisation! But perhaps he had it. And perhaps somebody has photo-evidence.....

OTTOMH I think both the photo and this story can be found in an article by Adrian Curtis in TRACTION 90 - sadly right now I can't check this.

On 17/01/2020 at 09:42, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

D1733 was a common loco on NE - SW services, and as such was quite common through Sheffield/Chesterfield. I liked the coach sized numbering it ran with before overhaul!

 

Mike.

At that time I was in west Cornwall surrounded by hydraulics! The first Class 47 I saw was D1677 Thor at Truro in autumn 67, after a slow start such visits picked up throughout 1968 but that's another story. Although there were no reported sightings of D1733 in Cornwall in Bsyp livery, it did show up not long after its overhaul.

I've seen so many photos of this loco showing the white-on-red logos on one side and plain on the other that I began to wonder if it did in fact ever carry four logos, or just the two for publicity photos. Eventually in exasperation I put this to Russell Saxton who sent me six new photos and just ONE of these proved that it did!!

It was also the only Class 47 to carry its works plates on the body sides. D1953-61 had them attached to the cab doors.

Neil

Oooh, that's splitting hairs Mike, but yes OK, I'll grant you that one! Good job they didn't send D1734, the way things turned out.....

I very nearly missed seeing D1733 in Bsyp, on my first tour around Crewe Works on 3/11/69 I found it bogieless on trestles. Somewhat bizarrely the loco which pioneered the new BR logo but ran without any for over 5 years emerged from this overhaul in standard blue but still without any logos! 1538 was likewise around the same time so maybe there were none on the shelf in the Paint shop when these two went through.

Neil

I saw D3052 at Willesden in 1973, black with original BR crest, it was withdrawn before becoming 08039. However D3170 at Carlisle Kingmoor was renumbered 08105 apparently still in black livery. A photo appeared in an Ian Allan combo of the time but I'd love to see a colour pic....

Diesels built new in blue:

Class 50 - D400-49

Class 47 - D1733 (XP64 Bsyp), D1953-61

Class 25 - D7660-77 (D7660/1 Bsyp)

Class 20 - D8178-99/8300-27

These final 18 Class 25s displayed 4 different versions of blue livery, confusion reigned! (D7660 Bsyp with BR arrows below the driver's cab side windows only/D7661 Bsyp with 4 arrows/D7662-71 Bfye with 4 arrows/D7672-77 with 4 arrows moved down to be central on the cabsides with works plates on the cab doors). D7660-69 were also dual-braked from new, presumably to work Euston Mark 2a ECS stock. I can't say how long the two Bsyp ones lasted but I've never seen photos of them in early blue with full yellow ends. By the time I saw them in 1973 they were in standard BFYE with central BR arrows.

If Crewe had switched its Class 47 build to blue at the same time as Loughborough, D1107-11 would (presumably) have looked like D1953-61.

As MidlandRed says, all Class 73/1s were delivered in Bsyp - E6007-11 had the off-white stripe but no BR arrows, E6012/3 had both and E6014-49 had the arrows but no stripe. Since E6012 went into traffic in December 1965 this must surely have been the first BR loco of any type to display the new logo after D1733. I wonder if Lima realised the significance of their OO model?!

By a twist of fate, Class 45 scored both the first and last diesels to receive TOPS numbers - 45101 (ex-D96) and 45071 (ex-D125) respectively, the latter due to a lengthy rebuild following collision damage. 45101-12 and 45001-3 received numbers on all four corners. Although it would appear that Class 45 was renumbered at random, this is true up to a point - once the full quota of fifty Class 45/1s had been completed, the remaining locos still requiring works attention were quickly renumbered into Class 45/0 in numerical order. I can't be specific at the moment as all my references are packed away for a house move but the Modern Locomotives Illustrated listings make for interesting reading at times!

I'd be interested in seeing a photo of 08840 in green if you can find it, as I have a part-finished model - all I keep finding is 08839 which didn't retain its ladders!

LBRJ, I've always thought that this was the reason why D7029 & D7088 were sent to Laira Aug - Nov 67, the same months that D601/2/4 spent in South Wales. It was an opportunity to maintain local traction familiarity on Hymeks. I saw both working the down Cornish Riviera Express through Truro during that period, but I don't know what else they worked and have no idea if they ventured down any branch lines (but I'd love to know - Hymeks on the clays?!)

That's the one! Lovely camping weather too. With the loco being on this end this must have been the return working and 805 had just run round, ready to head downhill to Bodmin Road. D4008 followed about 90 minutes later. Exeter-Waterloo headcode up a Cornish backwater?!

A couple of off-topic comments - the Hawksworth coach on the left must have been preserved saddle tank 1363's partner W7372W, one of a pair (the other being W7377W) of former WR Royal Train brake vehicles which only ever carried chocolate/cream livery, first GWR then BR(WR); and D4008 was later renumbered 08840 still in green and AFAIK still fitted with radiator ladders (I didn't notice such things at the time myself but I believe there's a photo in Bradford Barton' s Diesels in Action 5) - blue 08931 (ex-D4161) probably did too, and 08928 (ex-4158) certainly did as a couple of photos can be found on the above-mentioned CRS website, under Long Rock. I can't see the 805 photo there, but I'm a regular viewer and last weekend asked them to post a reminder that last Monday marked the 50th anniversary of the first Peak to Penzance, with my rather cr*p instamatic photo of D151 taken the following day.

I've seen a couple of similar photos of 824 Highflyer here, around this period (same livery).

One day in early September 1971 805 Benbow propelled two red bogie rerailing vans all the way down to Wadebridge to rescue D4008 (whether the 08 or its wagons had fallen off is unknown). Presumably running round at Bodmin General had been skipped to save time. I witnessed this passing Polbrock Bridge, near Grogley Halt, as I just happened to be there for a week's youth club camp! A photo of 805 & vans at Bodmin General has come to light in recent years. (If this story sounds familiar you may have read it in Traction magazine's letters pages many years back, where a re-typing error had Benbow heading to Wenford Bridge instead of Wadebridge - a correction appeared in the following issue, but a Warship to Wenford certainly boggles the mind!!)

This book sounds like one to add to my collection too.

Strange, isn't it, that although other Type 2s sported either an off-white stripe or lighter-green band on their dark green livery, the NBL Class 21 had neither and the Class 29 had both! 

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier in this thread, but if the Class 29 conversions are listed in date order all of the blue ones were completed last, and all in 1967. These were therefore surely blue from conversion and never carried two-tone green (so Hornby's Chinese-produced D6119 was incorrect). I've certainly never seen photos of D6100/7/8/19/24/29/37 in ttg, and don't expect to.

I really hope that Dapol will amend the full yellow ends on 6107 & 6112 before production, to have the slight vertical wrap-around onto the cabsides. D6129 is correct, I believe this kind of minimal yellow application was an Inverurie habit, also used on its early Class 20 blue repaints, as was the use of block serif numbers throughout 1967 (something it shared with Swindon).

The availability of the Dapol Class 29 won't stop me finishing my Hornby/Bachmann model of D6123, which only requires painting. I made those revolving roof vents from Hornby coupling rivets set into the roof with a pair of those tiny Lima Mark 1 round coach buffers glued into those - about the only good use I've ever found for them!

That's the one, and yes you're quite right, I've checked again and it's east of Polperro tunnel, not Buckshead - my mistake. I also agree that in the c18 years between the two photos the farmhouse has had a lot of outbuildings added - assuming that it IS the same location of course, but I'm reasonably confident.....

I remember being frustrated at the position of that telegraph pole, but if I took  3 steps backwards to try to shoot 'around' it I was too low, such was the steepness of the field at that point.

Looking at the design of the side grilles I think the Warship is D600 or D601. But then it usually is in shots with the CRE headboard on display (weren't these the only two with the necessary brackets?)

A bit late to ask this now I suppose, but did you remember to remove the headboard brackets before adding the yellow panels? Unlike Westerns these were inside the yellow area on Hymeks so worth putting right. (D7000-33 affected, plus a few collision-damaged front-ends beyond these.)

On the subject of D7017 in blue, it's often claimed that the depot repaint which saw it lose its cast numbers in favour of transfers on driver's corners only occurred in July 1974. Not so, I photographed it at Bristol so finished on 1/6/74, and a Railway Magazine of the time reported it passing Trowbridge in spotless condition in mid-May.

If you could see that it was unnamed, can you remember if it had BR arrows on the cabsides? If so it must have been 825.

The others had the logo centrally below the (absent) nameplate.