fiftyfour fiftyfour

5 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

Just found my 1984 (Ian Allan/RCTS) and 1986  (Ian Allan) books.

 

The 1984 book shows only prefixes:

SLEP

E 10500-534, 10571-589, 10593

M 10535-570, 10590-592, 10594-595, 10604, 10607 

W 10596-603, 10605-606, 10608-619

 

SLE

E 10646-665, 10668-672, 10678-680, 10682-10691, 

M 10666-667, 10673-677, 10681, 10692-727

W 10728-735

 

The 1986 book has prefixes and depots (BN - Bounds Green, WB - WIllesden Brent, EC - Edinburgh Craigentinny):

SLEP

E (at BN) 10500-534, 10570-575, 10580

M (at WB) 10535-569, 10582-607

SC (at EC) 10576-579, 10581, 10608-619

 

SLE

E (at BN) 10646-665, 10668-672, 10722-732

M (at WB) 10666-667, 10673-715, 10720-721

SC (at EC) 10716-719

 

And a note that the vehicles intended to be 10734/5 are now Royal 2914/2915

No mention of 10733, missing from the listings.

 

So quite a bit of change to deal with!

I wonder how seriously WB took keeping the "W" prefixed ones on the Night Riviera and the "M" prefixed ones on Anglo-Scots?! 

2 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

My thoughts exactly. 

 

Especially when so many retailers have still got the first set of Inter7Cities power cars available and at significantly reduced prices. I mean is the Inter7Cities livery really that popular to produce two sets of power cars to arrive within the same year of each other? Personally, I wouldn't think so. Even the GWR Green power cars haven't sold out after many months of been available and many retailers still have all three releases so far of 43187 & 43188, 43005 & 43041 and 43016 & 43093 available. Given that GWR Green seems a popular livery and area to model for many modellers and all three sets produced so far are still available it would suggest that because the Inter7Cities power cars will be specifically confined to working in Scotland that these will be less popular to model. 

 

Producing the interim livery of debranded FGW with 'A New Era' branding I think would have been more sensible rather than producing a direct duplication of the same livery within a year of the previous set becoming available. It's not even as if either of said Inter7Cities power car sets have been named in reality and thus would be named on the models produced by Hornby. Then their would be more of a difference between the sets other than just the running numbers. 

 

I suppose for anyone modelling Scotland and the new short formed HST sets it's brilliant news, but I highly doubt that the second set will fly off of the shelves given the first set hasn't. 

But the "new era" branding was a very short-lived interim and probably never saw passenger service (and could only have done so on debranded GWR slam door stock prior to the power cars being overhauled)- hardly worth modelling such an obscure lash-up, especially when the six-years of service by 40% of the fleet FGW "Barbie" blue with pink swoosh has NEVER been done. 

What depot were the W region ones based at? My earliest book (1988) shows them all being at WB in one big pool shared with WCML examples.

2 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

Or they find that ones with names sell better?

Pet hate of mine- I prefer a bog standard un-named one, and if the model is a bog standard un-named one its easy to name it whilst renumbering it, whereas its a pain to have to try and remove a name from a brand new model.

Tangent subject- does anyone make the replacement SLE/SLEP coach ends for the OO Lima or Hornby models? Hurst used to do a resin "paint it and swap it over" replacement end incorporating the built in lights, their website (last updated 11 years ago) lists this item but out of stock.

Thanks for the info, two packs on order from Precision for now while I assess the quantity in each pack and the scale of the issue! I keep doing this; ordering two packs of something from Railtec only to find something else they do that I need a week later.

3 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

They are item no. 9076. The 3D versions look a lot better than the usual flat ones.

 

Best wishes

 

Roddy

No, that's just the lights- earlier in this thread you said they also did the emergency door releases to go on the bottom of the carriages near the doors but I cannot find them on the Railtec website and I need these more than the lights. I home made my own CDL lights by cutting up sheets of plasticard but the Lima and Lima derived Hornby stuff (eg Mk3 Sleeper) needs the red handle in white housing to complete the job.

1 minute ago, EddieK said:

I was working at GW in 1995 and I recall the process to identify sets to transfer to WCML. One set had a pair of prototype HST vehicles in it, so that was a good one to get rid of...

Indeed they did- the old #31 set had 2xTS which had been hacked about with twice since being in the 252 set! Along with set #12 and set #17 which must have fallen out of favour for some reason or other. IIRC the power cars had to have an even spread of major exam dates as it would have been no good them having them all due a G-xam within six months - initially GW loaned them a "courtesy power car" when one of the WCML ones was at Laira on a major, that only lasted for the first two to need overhauls though.

On 24/08/2019 at 09:19, Roddy Angus said:

 

Thanks very much for the reply Ragtag, but I a hoping to get ones which project, like the real ones.  The Hornby Scotrail 2fs have the CDLs printed on but they look better with the Hurst replacements, unfortunately I don't have enough for a complete rake.  I will probably use the Railtec transfers for the emergency door releases, which are missing  on the Hornby models, either straight on the models or using the Hurst etches for relief.

 

Thanks once again for taking the time to reply.

 

Roddy

Old tread bump- what is the Railtec item number for the emergency door releases for CDL please?

I would hope that RE wouldn't object to a reproduction of a 21 year old edition of their mag- and if they do the legal work 'round is that we are showing a part of it for the purposes of "review". And my review is that they are a heck of a lot better than other general interest titles at reporting model railway stuff.

1 hour ago, EddieK said:

From my memory, the HSTs used to Holyhead were Western Region sets sent from Old Oak Common. 

Initially, yes. Subsequently, no!

From the start of the Euston to Holyhead service it was formed of "any" WR set which came onto the WCML having worked an up service into Padd, then empty via Old Oak and then the NLL into Euston. It would stay on the WCML for two days (eg an afternoon, a full day and a morning) before returning home via the reverse method. When I say "any" WR set it would have always have been one with a 407xx buffet as the WCML services called for dining. Then, from May 1995 a special separate pool of three sets, seven power cars was reallocated to Longsight to exclusively operate WCML trains- the reason for this was impending privatisation and the realisation that the WCML would have to have its own trains and not continue to borrow the WR ones. This arrangement lasted until May 1998 when Virgin put everything together in one pool; whilst the trio of WCML trailer sets generally stuck to WCML duties you could get any of the 57 Virgin power cars working them.

43002 re-livery was May 2016. 43185 (into InterCity livery) followed in August. 43002 could never ever have run with another blue/grey power car from 2016 by virtue of it being unique in that scheme, until LNER did 43206+312 (as 006+112) in December 2019 for the final runs long after 43002 had retired to a museum.

5 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

What's wrong with the 221s tilt? Mine tilts when it's going round corners and doesn't when it isn't, isn't that what it's supposed to do?

take the springs out between the bogie and the body frame. It might not tilt any more but it will stay on the tracks coming out of corners, unlike mine when first operated.

Does anyone have a list of all the 50's that wore black roofs with large logo (BR era only please). Planning to change one of my old Lima models (I'm a traditionalist!!) to represent that livery but want to avoid the well trodden Ajax route!

2 minutes ago, bart2day said:

 

Completely agree. Despite some nice reliveries of existing tooling such as the Scotrail HSTs and Network Rail mk2fs, I am rather disappointed by this years offering as Hornby once again entrenches the view that they are not interested in the current era modeller particularly when it comes to new tooling.

 

As you say, there are so many current scene prototypes that have never made it to model form and yet most people are screaming that their favourite loco hasn’t been retooled in the last ten years. The hobby’s future is bleak as by the time the manufacturers come round to manufacturing up to date stock (if ever) a lot of potential current scene modellers will be put off as there will be such a backlog.

 

Nonetheless I acknowledge that this is not a popular view on this forum.

Trouble with endlessly chasing "current scene" is that we now have a myriad of units most of which are confined to a relatively small geographic area. I can see more 800 derivatives coming (even if they are shorter than they ought to be) as there are already prototypes on GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE- before long there will be EMR and Avanti variants as well as the one off livery variations already being done now for LNER and probably will get done for GWR. Beyond them what to do- plump for a CAF 195/331 and its only got limited regional appeal, same goes for an Aventra which are not widespread either, go for an Electrostar and you get a few more livery variants but still all London centric. 

1 hour ago, scottrains29 said:

I had thought about that. I think it would be fine for the Virgin livery as they always had a few buffered examples in the fleet, but I think most would prefer the standard version twin pack for GNER as they only had two buffered examples that only operated during a very short period of the 11+ years GNER existed.

 

I hope Hornby produce another GNER set, but this time with Valenta power cars and original light lenses. The new 91 may spark (excuse the pun) more interest modelling the ECML. With the recent Hornby Intercity, VTEC and LNER HST sets I think we must be due a GNER set next.

Err, West is best, obviously! They did already did a GNER pair, the Virgin ones were more geographically widespread but I'm still cheering on a First pink-swoosh one as per 2001-2006 style, even if First are weird about their heritage.

7 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Another nice set is 002 & 198 with 002 as a special in the pack with the standard GWR livery on 198. If I remember rightly wasn't this pair the same pair that worked the last ever HST full length train into Paddington last year?

Already answered (amid 31 pages!!)- 43002+LA72+43198 are the train which worked the last passenger service from Paddington and the specials a fortnight later, the latest GWR carriage numbers announced make it possible to form up the exact 10 vehicle train as worked on those days. I shall take marks off for anyone not forming them the right way 'round with 43198 on the standard class end...

4 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

I guess that means the Intercity pair as portrayed in the 2020 catalogue would actually have operated for longer under Virgin trains ownership than BR!

I would be quite interested to get either of these buffered power cars to produce an early Virgin set, but probably wouldn't want both. I wonder if others think the same. Perhaps we'll see people splitting the set.

 

Yes, Feb '96 until Jan '97 under Cross Country TOU and Jan '97 until Nov '98 under Virgin Trains.

A better "solution" would be 1x buffer, 1x standard front in Virgin Trains livery, and then 1x buffer, 1x standard front in GNER. People would want the coaches to go between them and I don't know if the market would bear another release, especially as some HST power car liveries have yet to be released (eg all the privatised GWT/FGW styles until Dynamic Lines, of which there were four main ones for the power cars and three main ones for the coaches)...

I can see some people splitting the set for the purposes of running 1x Class 91, 8x HST Swallow livery trailer and 1x buffer fitted power car to replicate the "super power" 8,730hp combo on the ECML in 1989- more power to weight than your APT's or 800's!!

25 minutes ago, BritishRail60062 said:

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't GNER also have a buffered HST around 1998 as 43067 and 43080 as spares until about 2005? Think they passed over to Grand Central after that but there is another idea for the buffered HST. But that's for another topic. Anyway I think my bank account is going be taking a virtual kick in with all those new model trains on my shopping list and I am just about to order the 2020 Hornby Brochure right now! .

Yes, both of those went to GNER, and both painted into GNER livery for their stint there. Not as spares but as daily use refurb cover whilst another two ex Virgin cars were put through works upgrading them to GNER's standard. If you are thinking of doing two and putting them either end of the same GNER rake then don't- they were not allowed to run together as neither had the reliability mods!

16 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

That's swallow?

 

But here is one

 

 

IIRC only 43014 and 43123 wore executive with buffers- and WCML West Midlands-Euston modellers may wish to know that they performed the TDM trials in that livery prior to the Mk3 DVT order. Note that those two also had extra ETH jumbers (just about visible in the shot of 123 above the right hand buffer). The other six were converted in 1988 so would have had full yellow front swallow, from around 1991 repaints omitted the yellow around the windscreen and the new Hornby models are right for c1992-c1998, except that 065 wasn't named until February 1996. 065 went Virgin in November '98 (and 123 went Virgin in Feb '99) so without mods the duo in the 2020 catalogue are correct for Feb '96 to Nov '98.

1 hour ago, dvdlcs said:

As the SLEPs had a pantry (the P) and the SLEs did not, if there was only one sleeper coach on the train it would (should) be a SLEP. When there was more than one sleeper, they would normally be paired SLEP+SLE so that one pantry served two coaches.

 

Therefore it is interesting that they cancelled 26 SLEPs - presumably that would have led to a shortage of pantries compared to non-pantry coaches? Or were more SLEPs than SLEs going to be built (for the single coach scenario) and the cancellation evened the numbers out?

 

[Answering my own question: SLEPs I think were 10500-10619 (120 vehicles) whereas SLEs were 10646-10732 (87 vehicles). So still enough for SLE+SLEP pairs and individual SLEPs.]

 

On another note, some of the Mk3 sleepers ended up in preservation while still fairly young. I can remember going to Bo'ness and seeing a Mk3 sleeper in InterCity livery parked there (don't remember which version of IC livery), but looking very odd as it was sitting (perched?) on a pair of B1 bogies - presumably BR (as it was at the time) still needed all of the BT10s.

All the BT10's were kept when the Sleepers were disposed of back then as they were needed for the rest of the Mk3 fleet.

Now who thinks Hornby would be onto a winner if they added an InterCity Swallow livery Mk3 sleeper into the 2021 releases? It would be so easy to turn out the standard issue version and the land cruise version as (I think) the only difference is that the land cruise livery ones had white roofs- as luck would have it the Lima tooling for the Mk3 sleeper has a separate roof.

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Its funny the comments about the class 56 in Floyd livery.

 

Lima once produced the 66 in HGK livery in OO at the time it was the only class 66 in the market... OO or HO. It sold out-within days, mostly to European collectors, it wasn't even advertised in the UK it was gone so quick. It was a choice of a Lima 66 in OO, or No 66. (At the time the HGK 66 was the only real class 66 working on mainland Europe - that page of history was yet to turn).

 

I sold mine last year for £100 after a bidding war on ebay.. its still rarer than the Lima Porterbrook class 55,  theres not many UK Lima locos fetching £100 in 2019, 30 years after it was made, despite there being a Bachmann, Hornby, Heljan, ESU and Mehano class 66’s now available in OO/HO.

 

Just because British modellers are prudish about europe doesn't mean to say its the same the other way around, Europeans will view it for what it is... a cheap* model of a prototype that runs in Hungary, that if they want a Floyd 56, they've no other choice but that one to buy... same to for the Romanian class 92.

 

* Europeans pay much more for their models than we do.

I'm also amused by all the comment regarding the Hungarian Class 56. It's a "novelty" loco for the UK market and a keepsake/compromise for the Hungarian market but despite that it will probably sell quite well. If someone decides its not for them then they know what to do. For my money anyone thinking of buying the APT either has a massive layout based on the WCML in 1984/5 capable of accommodating a 14 car train or they are planning to buy it purely because of the novelty value, and over £500 is a lot to for an occasionally run extravagance, yet there has been far less adverse comment on that release.

2 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

I’m quite surprised they did Class 43 Sir Kenneth Grange with a GWR Class 43 instead of the Intercity Class 43 it ran with for a while. 

That train (43002+LA72 set+43198) is the exact set which ran the last ever down passenger service HST from Paddington- put the 43198 on the standard class TGS end and the 43002 on the first class end and you've got exactly the right formation assuming you buy all 8 new release GWR livery coaches and marshal them in numerical order!

HST coaches in Swallow livery- I can see I'm a lone voice here but Hornby's researchers are absolutely rubbish in this department and have scored another own goal. Again.

Before the time that set received Central Door Locking it had been cascaded down to Cross-Country, 41086 knocked out, and 40436 inserted in place of 40703 (which had found its way into LA35). They **could** have used their four window buffet car moulding to correctly represent XC69 as a seven car rake to go with 43065+43123. We still have not had a 4-window HST buffet which anyone modelling Cross-Country in ANY era needs- if only that poxy 40703 model had been 40436 with the correct moulding that would have been a really good train...

The nameplate on 43065 dates the pairing after February 1996, much as last years nameplate on 43078 dated that pairing into a very narrow timeframe right at the end before Virgin took over- my second pet hate on HST models is insistence on modelling a "namer"-  it means trying to colour match to conceal a nameplate on a brand new model if your era is pre 1996 in this case.

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

The large gaps between batches is because BR cancelled the final batch as the writing was on the wall regarding overnight trains.  A pair were diverted from the final batch to be included in the royal train and numbered directly into the 29xx series.  
 

I think about 25 were leased to DSB, the Danish Railways in the late 80’s and when they returned to the UK, GNER planned to convert them into day coaches and extend their HST sets.  It never came to fruition and they ended up stacked at CF Booth.

The main issue being that you cannot cut standard Mk3 window sized holes into a Mk3 sleeper bodyshell without losing the structural integrity. Other smaller issues like the lack of spare CDL equipment were surmountable, the window layout was the show stopper. By the time GNER realised this it wasn't too long to wait for ex Virgin XC HSTs to become available to extend the GNER HST sets.