Artless Bodger

22 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

And one Mk1 coach did (eventually) get the imitation teak finish - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1218. I always thought it looked a bit odd.

The photo there makes it look like a bad case of overall rust - someone got carried away with the weathering. Serves as a case study in why not to revert to faux teak.

48 minutes ago, keefer said:

A point often missed is that tartan paint should really be applied with a left-handed brush.

Fine by me, all my brushes work left handed.

I would have thought crimson and maroon would not be universally accepted in Scotland, that was the NBR carriage colour was it not?

7 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

due to them disappearing more than 50 years ago

An abiding memory frorm their time on coastway services from Ore to Brighton was occasional travellers wiggling the brass droplight lock lever in an attempt to open the compartment door, usually accompanied by the droplight falling with a thud. Someone had removed all the brass instruction plates.

I have a vague memory of seeing it cross the high level bridge in Maidstone on an up working one Sunday early / mid '60s - but it might have been the Golden Arrow - I was young and it was a bit of a surprise to see a loco there.

If it's any help, I remember similar hoppers on stone trains to Allington c.1975-80. If my memory is reliable they were all bauxite or weatherd shades thereof, some with the House Coal Concentration lettering or a wagon shaped logo (composed of the word STONE?), in most cases somewhat worn.

As ever, Paul Bartlett's site has loads of useful photos

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweld   - some useful HCC photos here

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/br21thopperweldrebody  - one with the STONE logo

22 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

When loading from the bottom the top hatch would have to be open anyway, unless there was some other method of avoiding a build up of pressure within the tank...

I have seen the opposite, when unloading there needs to be a vent open on top if emptied by pump. Tankers delivering size to our mill usually opened the manhole lid, propped open enough by the clips, the size was then drawn off by our transfer pump*. A relief driver one day forgot to open the lid (or pehaps was more used to discharge by air pressure), when returning to the lorry after the hour or so required to discharge we found the side of the tank caved in. *Wallace and Tiernan 5" double headed diaphragm pump. 

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

Probably continued until rather more recently, the sort of stuff unscrupulous traders got up to in the 19th century.

Lead acetate I believe, also known as sugar of lead. Lead compounds were also widely used in cosmetics, white face powder and even Grecian Formula mens' hair dye.

Locomotive haulage of barges was carried out on the Danube, against the current through the Iron Gates, along the Sip Canal. Attached photo found on the web, apparently a JZ (Yugoslavian Railways) class 30 standard 2-10-0 goods engine. More details at: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treidelbahn_am_Eisernen_Tor

Your photos display the layout very well, in particular the first of the E2 from the platform end, and especially the last of Brighton - very realistic, I can feel myself there, in the country. Almost hear the hiss of steam and the birds calling. I've seen a lot of articles about focus stacking, in the Brighton shot though the slightly out of focus foreground gives an authenticity - my interest and focus is on the loco.

Your choice of weights to hold things down while the glue dries is rather more classy than mine - tins of Tesco baked beans.

Thank you Johnster, that is useful information, particularly regarding coal. I had originally wondered if - for my putative independant minor railway - that the wagon stock would be limited. To deal with an incoming coaster / lighter loaded with coal for the up line industries then all available wagons might be pushed into service to clear the load as quickly as possible (mindful of some of your posts regarding the desire of ships' captains to minimise unprofitable time in port). Empties returning down line might then be used for stone traffic to the wharf for loading into lighters / barges.

It just means I need to source extra wagons - a good excuse for a few kits I think ;-)

Though I've no fixed era in mind (very rule 1), when were shock vans introduced - I'm only familiar with the BR type (which looks as though it is based on a GWR design)? 

37 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Didn’t some of them have tracks on both banks to allow boats and locos to pass?

Yes, though not all.

A quote from https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/12/trolley-canal-boats/

Two barges crossing
On the larger part of the canal trajectories in France, traction occurred only at one side of the canal. When two tractors going in opposite direction met, they switched barges and drove back to where they came from (one barge had to navigate over the sunken towline of the other).

A similar method had been in use with mules and horses for centuries. On the Teltow canal in Germany and, later, on some canals in France, tracks were laid on both side of the canal, which made towing easier but more expensive.

However I recall first having read this years ago in a book from Maidstone library about French canals.

J1627 - an early application of RES livery perhaps?

Weather your model like that and wait for the comments at exhibitions!

Just a thought - several comments here about locos being pulled sideways due to the triangle of forces, but horses didn't fall over and the tow rope was attached to their collar. 

Looking at the photos of some of the CGTVN locos, the side plates are hefty with plenty of big rivets, perhaps for ballast?

I read somewhere that on heavily trafficed canals, the electric tractor drivers might spend their whole working day shuttling along a very short stretch of canal bank as each time they met a boat coming the other way they swapped tow ropes and reversed direction.

EMD E units were A-1-A A-1-A and I read that this was to allow the bogie pivot to be centrally mounted with a symmetrical axle layout - developed from the Blomberg B bogie. E units were the express passenger units, with twin engines, so the extra axle helped carry the extra weight. Other loco manufacturers in the US used C bogies (US nomenclature doesn't use the o afaik) but resorted to assymetric axle layouts as between the middle and one end there had to be 2 traction motors. There were various proprietary 3 axle bogie designs for C bogies - the Tri-mount comes to mind. Look at the bogies on locos like FM Trainmaster C-Cs. FM later produced the C-Line series, one option was for a B-C cab unit There is a lot of data on this in some US HO diesel drawing collections and class recognition books (Pinkepank & Marre? Kalmbach?). I don't have my copies anymore. 

The poor weather has in some ways made it necessary to get on with some modelling. Progress so far includes:

1. Completion (almost*) of the track laying.

2. Permanent wiring - nothing special, just needed to solder some fishplates onto wires and set up just two feeds, one to the standard gauge and one to the narrow gauge / N gauge.

3. *I was unhappy with the angled loco release, having some damaged curves in my nephews old stuff I cut one down to bring the headshunt parallel to the other roads. I'm much happier now with it.

4. Made a start on the station platform - 3 layers of 5mm foamboard, Metcalfe brick card for the front and edging stones from cereal packet card scribed with a ballpoint pen. Thinking of using sandpaper to represent cinder topping.

5. Drawing up plans for a loco body to fit the Kato pocketline chassis for the narrow gauge.

The layout has multiple uses potentially - the main OO standard gauge terminus - fiddle yard, an N gauge roundy roundy in case I want to run some of my older stock (its 9" radius so not recomended for the newer locos) and an OO9 narrow gauge quarry branch. More than a nod to Gwiwer's Porthgarrow layout for inspiration in this direction.

Ideally (i.e. in some of my pipe dreams) the N gauge oval can have modular scenery - I still have some buildings from the old N gauge layout - or modules to depict the quarry / sand pit for the narrow gauge. I suspect that if I get that far the narrow gauge will win, I fancy a crane / shovel or two. Cranes were a childhood fascination (thinking of trips to Margate, passing the gravel pits at Sturry), when Mum collected me from my infant school we had to detour via local building sites to watch the cranes at work.

Your layout looks very good and inspiring, especially in your use of sectional track which looks good with ballasting. I thought your experiment with the photo background really worked, the tumbledown building gave me a real feeling of depth beyond the plane of the station. I'm also envious of your self discipline in regard to period and location - if I had a fiver for every time I changed allegiance I'd be rich!

7 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I'm struggling to work out what Ashford International refers to. I don't think Ashford has an airport, does it?

Lydd Airport (London Ashford)!

There were 4 lengths of what looked like Barlow rail covering a cess catch pit at the end of Mortimer station a few (10?) years back. Clevedon Pier was constructed from redundant Barlow rail - not sure if any remains since restoration.

In the two of Worksop East, amazing how the change of perspective between the two photos makes it seem as though the buildings behind the snow plough have been instantly demolished. Wagon turntable on the far left siding in J1606 too, an interesting relic.

The first ones to enter my mind when 18" and industrial were mentioned were - Horwich and Crewe works.

More, halting, progress. I've restored the beading on the ends of the 6 wheeled carriage sides, getting a stiff neck in the process. The magnifier is great but with a short focal length I have to bend close to the workbench, and get quite tense as a result. I managed to complete the roof to my satisfaction - if I dont look too closely I dont see the gaps. Livery? Probably plain brown.

Currently building the Wills goods timber goods store and small station building - what colour scheme to adopt? The current K&ESR scheme at Northiam and Bodiam (dark red and cream) looks smart, however the later stations on the Headcorn extension were more economy minded in tarred timber, so black, dry brushed in grey and brown probably.

What rolling stock would be appropriate? I'm thinking mainly 4/5 plank opens as the primary traffics would be coal, baled rags and woodpulp inwards, and stone outwards. Would the same wagons be used for all traffic, suitably swept out between types? Or would there have had to be specific coal, stone and general merchandise wagons? 

So, a few questions there and I'd be interested to hear any observations or suggestions you might make. Thanks for reading.

The IoW Central had 2 outside cylinder 2-2-2Ts, Precursor and Pioneer, apparently the first locos on the island (Rails in the Isle of Wight, P.C. Allen and A.B. MacLeod, p10.) The photo of Precursor appears to show a crosshead driven water feed pump attached to the ends of the slide bars. It is all inside framed though, built 1861 by Slaughter Gruning , scrapped 1904. One photo in that book shows one of the locos pulling a train of 6 (maybe 7) 4 wheel coaches, so not lacking a certain puisance.

12 hours ago, rodent279 said:

I reckon Midland Pullman livery would suit them well.

The original Nanking Blue? I wonder how well that would translate to the 800s, as I don't think it sits as well on the HST. The LUMO blue isnt far off? Perhaps I'm too conditioned to BR(S) plain green and the ensuing plain blue from my formative years :-)

Nice to see photos of 1618 in action. I remember summer Wednesday evenings, going into the Blackhorse yard at APM New Hythe where it was stored after leaving Barry to help in the early days of its restoration. 1968 when I changed schools and 1969, I could only go when we had no homework set, from 2nd year onwards we had homework every night of the week. With thin arms I got the job of scraping congealed grease and dirt off the inner surfaces of the tender frames, then laying under the tank with a wire brush removing rust. At least I didn't have to get inside the tender tank, or the firebox. Used to use the Reed's yard gang wash room after to get all the crud off before catching the train home. Rather lost track of it after that, I think it went to Tenterden first before the Bluebell. Most of the group working on it at APM were K&ESR stalwarts.

18 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Lumo livery is a nice shade of blue, but like the IMO dull GWR livery, does nothing for the stylish lines of the trains. 

I wonder what they would look like in the original HST blue / yellow? Most modern livieries are to my mind fussy marketing exercises, in that respect the LUMO plain blue is actually quite nice, GWR green nice and plain but too dark, TPE looks like a pop-art explosion. LNER is a hangover from Virgin livery isn't it? Too hung up on red and wavy lines (GNER blue wasn't bad).