WILLIAM ADDISON

Thank you Grovener and roundhouse, especially for the illustrations rh. Grovener that wiring you explained makes sense and if Peter can just give me an idiots guide to how he fitted his micro switches (physically and electrically) I would be delighted, I don't care if it takes longer as I would feel if I was making real progress towards smooth and intended operation. At the moment I'm just checking the two faulty points to make sure they have some play and are definitely properly aligned and centred. One other point is that my Peco electrofrogs are made up of new points and old ones I had on my previous layout (which were working fine unmodified by the hand of God and just relying on the switch blades to change polarity). The newer ones needed very little modification, just bridging the two rails on either side and cutting the two very thin wires. The older ones needed bridging AND slitting with a cutter disc as explained on several You Tube vids - I'm pretty sure that I have modified them all correctly. I hadn't thought about whether the age of the points makes any difference.

Once again thank you for the kind replies. In response to Pete firstly I think even when modellers as experienced as you have fitted PM1s very carefully it seems to be the case that some fail, though fitting can be an issue and I'm going to look at mine again and perhaps use d/s tape to get everything just right and then not screw down fully to allow a bit more play. If I still have no luck with the offending points the micro switch route tempts me most. Thanks for the reference as to where to get them - in advance of getting the wiring diagram could I ask do you leave the existing PM1 in it's place (assuming they work in conjunction with the micro switches) when you say the common goes to the frog - at the moment that is the "F" wire (I've used pink dropper wire) from the PM1 to the frog, and the C connection from the PM1 (I've used blue 24/0 gauge wire is the common (coming from the negative output on my GM CHU) connecting all PM1s as a bus as it were. The "D" and "E" from the wires connect to my DCC bus (as advised from Brian Lambert) and the "A" and "B" wires connect either side of the switches (DPDT?) on my control panel. The central tag on these switches comes from the positive output on my GM CDU and daisy chains between each DPDT switch. So is the "common" you refer to separate to these? And BTW Peter just to show my ignorance again I don't know what a PCB is in your reference to the weaknesses of the PM1s. I presume all these micro switches are fitted underneath the baseboard and the accompanying literature/wiring diagram will tell me how as I get lost in these details sometimes - indeed I still cannot grasp the last point in your reply relating to Ray's quote but as I will be using the micro switch route perhaps this doesn't matter anyway. Frog Juicers seem an additional expense when I could have perhaps used Cobalts or Tortoise for the combined price and saved myself a lot of hassle - but hindsight is a wonderful thing and I am where I am and hoping with the kind help on this forum to go forwards. In response to roundhouse I will take heart with you success with PM1s - I do use block terminals to remove them easily. Once again at the risk at people screaming at my ignorance I don't know what a PCB or 9 pin D plus is I'm afraid. Cost and the fact that short wheelbase locos can still be fallible with juicers once again directs me down the m/s switch route. Thank you. Mick

Thank you for your reply Ray. The first thing I'm going to do on the offending points - (just some of them, thankfully some are working well) is check again to see if they are properly centered and aligned. They are making full contact with the main?/stock rails when I switch them from my control panel but if there is any misalignment mis-centereing, can this still affect polarity switching even though everything seems to be making full contact? If I have no luck after my re-checks confirm everything is aligned and centered could you tell me how/where I purchase the correct micro switches and how I wire them into the system, or where I might find some sort of guide on this? When you say "the simplest way of operating these switches is for them to be operated by the point tiebar which isn't always an acceptable option from an aesthetic point of view", I'm not sure what you mean Ray - please excuse my ignorance as I'm a relative novice who relies mainly on books, the Forum and You Tube to feel my way through new challenges such as creating a full point control panel system and no doubt making many mistakes en route.

Hello there - I hope this is the right place to post this, I would be very grateful for any help and advice to cure the problem of the unreliability of some of my Seep PM1 points in terms of the polarity of the frogs on my Peco electrofrog points. A quick summary of my new layout would be Peco 100 track and electrofrog points on a DCC system in conjunction with a Guagemaster Prodigy Controller. For the powering of the points I opted for a separate DC system from my older Guagemaster Controller. This is fed through a CDU and thereafter I followed Brian Lambert’s superb advice from a 2014 thread regarding how to wire everything up, including connecting the Seep D and E wires to my DCC Bus. After installing my first points I had some problem with shorting at the frogs but simply followed Brian’s advice and reversed these connecting wires to eliminate the problem and now, by following the same point motor positioning I have no shorts. Unfortunately after I quickly sorted out one problem I encountered another – the seeming unreliability of the PM1s in terms of switching the polarity of the frog when I switch a change of direction on my control panel switches. I have taken great care in terms of centering each point motor and have even changed the offending point motor but I still run up against the same problem. Having bought over 20 PM1s in advance of my project to be completed during the current lockdown, I am really committed to the Seep system, but having read several threads on this issue on the Forum I was dispirited to say the least to find that there could be an inherent problem with the switching mechanism of the motors themselves, meaning that locos can proceed smoothly in one direction of the frog but stall in the other. Looking at the past threads on this polarity issue two solutions seem to have been offered: using “Frog Juicers” for each point at fault, or using ‘micro switches.’ The former being quite an expensive outlay but seemingly quick to install, the latter being cheaper but a little more time taking. As very much a novice to railway modeling I don’t fully understand either and I cannot find anything on Your Tube about overcoming the polarity issue on some points. Therefore, I would really welcome any detailed advice as to how I can find a solution to this problem by these two (or any other) methods. If it’s micro switches I’m really asking where I buy them and how I wire them into my existing PM1 point motor/Peco points, as I have to confess I’m clueless on the use of these. If it were a Frog Juicer would that be the Guagemaster one? And is wiring them into the ‘system’ fairly straightforward. I know there are many Forum members who seem to have no problem with their Seep PM1s but sadly that is not the situation I’m facing on some of my newly installed point motors. As I said at the start I would be very grateful for any help so I can have the smooth running system I hoped for. Mick

Mick Thanks Dave

Mick

Mick

Yes that is the point motor I'm using. Thank you so much Rob, that's music to my ears. Mick

Hello there, I'm just coming back to the hobby after a few years and have recently extended my layout having made the loft a lot more comfortable. Originally I just used the 'hand of God' to work all of my points but with the extended layout I now have I'm about to use electronic 'point movements.' My layout is DCC and I have no concerns about wiring it as I did it last time. However, fitting point motors is new to me but after talking to my local model shop guys and watching numerous You Tube 'how to do it' videos I think I'm ready to go. But I'm NOT using DCC for the power to the points. I'm using an analogue old Guagemaster as the power source for them for simplicity and budget. All the track and locos will be DCC as before. When I watched the guy from Everard Junction fitting a Seep point motor (the type I'm using) he also connected the frog of the Peco electrofrog point (the same as all of my points) to the power at the "toe" of the point, via the Seep point motor (if I 've got that right), - this gave him much better electrical continuity and better running - but since I'm using analogue as a point motor power source and DCC as a track power source would I be mixing two incompatible systems here? I'm going to watch the Everard Junction (original layout) film again but I think he was using DCC for everything. Any help for a point motor novice would be most welcome please.