CXW1

Here is my old Ks Y8. It was built by my grandfather around 40 years ago and has been recently refurbished/rebuilt with a new home-made chassis, small can motor and Alan Gibson wheels. Full details are over on my work bench thread so I won't repeat myself on here. 

Thanks

Chris 

I turned my attention back to the 'family heirloom' Y8 this afternoon. I mentioned on the previous page that this was an old Ks kit that my grandfather made 40-odd years ago and it was my intention to rebuild it with a new chassis, modern motor and the correct size wheels whilst preserving as much of the original as possible.

It still needs a few things doing to it (cab glazing, driver and fireman, light weathering etc) but I'm pleased with how it has turned out given what it used to look like. To my eyes it is still the same old Ks model with its shortcomings - the chimney and tank fillers are pretty awful - but it was important to retain as much of the original model as possible for sentimental reasons. 

When I started this project I had intended to replace the whitemetal boiler with a new  one made from brass tube. There is a gap in the bottom of the original boiler which was there to enable the previous DS10 motor to drive off the front axle (it now drives off the back axle). I eventually decided to stick with the original boiler in order to preserve as much of the original model as possible, and the gap isn't too visible. However, this meant that I had a spare Y8 boiler so I thought it would be rude not to turn this into a new separate loco and I have been putting this together off and on over the past few weeks in between working on the D24. I'm going to try and finish off some other stuff before I do any more to it though.

Cheers

Chris 

I appreciate that this is another D24 update which shows very little visible progress. However, it now works, which is always a relief and one of the major steps to overcome. 

I ended up managing to squeeze in a Branchlines 51:1 motor mount between the hornblocks and I haven't bothered with a 'proper' gearbox yet. I fitted the motor mount just to get it running and to check the clearances - fortunately everything is OK. I think that the running  should be acceptable just using the motor mount once it has some better pickups and plenty of weight in the boiler. I will also fit pickups to the tender. There is enough room to fit a High Level slim liner gearbox in the future if I find that the single stage motor mount isn't satisfactory. 

Now I know it works I can think about permanently fixing the boiler to the footplate, making the splashers, cab interior, steps etc. Plus there is a tender to make. 

There is also an ever-increasing queue of things that need painting (N12, J71, J79 etc) and I will try and pluck up the courage to mix-it with the masses and visit Halfords at the local retail park next week to get some spray cans. 

Cheers

Chris

A quick update to show some slow progress with the D24. The correct sized wheels arrived last week which allowed me to get the ride-height sorted out, fit the lower front frames and make a better fixing arrangement for the bogie. The front buffer height looks pretty good when the loco is stood next to the horsebox that I built a few weeks ago, which suggests that my guesswork and various drawings and plans on the back of envelopes were OK. 

I still haven't fixed the boiler or castings in place yet - they are just balanced or held down with blu-tak for now. 

I mentioned in the previous post that I would have a think about using a High Level slimliner gearbox or a simple single stage motor mount. This was an easy decision in the end because the motor mount that I have in my spares box is slightly too wide. So, I will have to order a gearbox. 

I have also made another 2mm scale wagon (RCH 1923 mineral wagon kit from the 2mm Association) which will end up on Yeovil Town. I will hand-letter this when my eyes and patience feel up to the task. Pictured next to the obligatory 2mm modeler's coin of course!!

Cheers

Chris 

A bit more done to the boiler today. Nothing is fixed in place yet including the castings. The safety valve and dome are Northeastern Kits castings. The dome is not 100% correct but probably as good a casting as I'm going to find commercially. The chimney is from the spares box and I'm fairly sure it was an unused part from a Dave Alexander J27 kit. 

The tender has been borrowed from the J28 which appeared a few pages ago and was placed there just to satisfy my curiosity of what it could end up looking like. I will make another tender in due course. The difference in height between the tender and the footplate will be rectified when the wheels arrive - hopefully next week.

Once I get the wheels I will turn my attention to making it work. I'm in two minds about what to do about a gearbox. I am going to use a Mashima 1024 motor that I have had for a while. There isn't much room between the hornblocks but it will be possible to fit a High Level slim liner gearbox and the loco has been designed around using one of these. The other option is to use a London Road Models single stage motor mount - I already have one of these (I think it is 38:1 ratio) and I'm sure it will be OK and also save me a few quid if I use it. 

Not much progress to report of late. I can usually find other things to do when the weather is nice. 

I have made the upper front frames for the D24 and soldered them in place. This has strengthened the footplate as I hoped it would. The rivet heads on the frames are made from brass wire and still need tidying up a bit. The basic boiler shape has been cut from brass tube to the correct length but it still needs opening up towards the rear were the firebox is (and where the motor will go) and it also needs a smokebox of course. It is just held in place by blu-tak at the moment but I'm sure you get the general idea. 

Hopefully the correct size wheels will arrive soon which will allow me to have a think about splashers and getting the ride-height of the bogie sorted out. It is starting to take shape. 

Cheers

Chris

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Don't knock the Locomotive Committee - as far as I can work out, the engineering genius behind the "Tennants" and the Class 8 tank engines was none other than Wilson Worsdell, who had struck out for independence from the family's Crewe connections by taking the post of Assistant Locomotive Superintendent to McDonnell, only to have big brother T.W. appointed over him. He got there in the end - a patient man, evidently.

 

I'm enjoying the H&B locos here especially. I do rather like Matthew Stirling's interpretation of the family traditions - which seems to have more in common with his uncle's style than his father's.

Thanks for the kind comments. The J74s may have an unfair reputation - possibly because they weren't officially designed by one of the Worsdell brothers or Mr Raven. I read somewhere that there isn't an official works photograph of the class which may have contributed to the view that they were held in low regard. However, it would appear that they gave 40+ years service without too many problems and the Tennants didn't do so badly either so I agree that the Locomotive Committee shouldn't be knocked. There also seems to be conflicting opinions on Mr McDonnell.

I didn't set out to build a fleet of H&B locos - I think the J23 was the first one and I just got a bit carried away!! 

42 minutes ago, micklner said:

From a Hornby B1

 

Body  rear section 3.50mm diameter ,front 3.25mm diameter

Buffer Head 5mm

Length to front of buffer head 7mm

 

To my eyes the body diameter is the oversize part .

Thanks for this. 

The rear section of the body on the cast buffers is 3.81mm. If I scraped off the two coats of paint it will be less. The rest of the dimensions are very similar to the Hornby buffers.

Looking at the picture again I can see what you mean, but I think I can live with 0.3mm.

2 hours ago, micklner said:

Looks nice, other than the what appear to be very oversize Buffers ?

I'm not sure if the buffers are oversize or not. 

The loco that I am modelling (like most of the J71s that were allocated to carriage pilot duties) had LNER group standard buffers and draw gear. The buffers I have used are from Alexander Models, and Dave's castings were always pretty accurate. 

The buffers are approximately 7mm long (roughly 1' 9" in scale terms?) and the head is roughly a scale foot in diameter. I think they are more or less the approximate dimensions of LNER group standard buffers but I am happy to be corrected. Perhaps the buffers look big because the loco is small. 

If you have a few models with group standard buffers would you be able to measure them if you get a chance? If mine are too big I'll get some replacements from Dave Franks. 

Many thanks

Chris 

No progress to report on the D24, J79 or the ‘family heirloom’ Y8 - still waiting for the postie to bring some parts.

I have always enjoyed messing around with old Mainline J72 bodies and making new chassis for them. I have a couple of J72s - one on a Comet chassis (I think) and another one on a homemade job and they both rarely see the light of day. I also have a couple that I converted to J71s using the Mainly Trains kit. The most recent of these (No. 399) was pictured a couple of pages ago.

The older J71 was built 5 or 6 years ago when I was just starting out messing around with steam locos. It has never been the greatest runner and at the time I didn’t bother shortening the bunker. For those who don’t know, the J71 bunker is approximately 6 inches shorter than on the Mainline/Bachmann J72 body, which sounds nothing in 4mm scale but is actually really noticeable. So, today has seen new pickups fitted (which has improved the running) and other improvements to the body including shortening the bunker. There are no ‘in progress’ pictures of the body modifications as plenty of people have documented these on here previously and it is a well-trodden path. 

The loco will end up as No. 1140, which was one of the York carriage pilots and has therefore had all the vacuum brake stuff and group standard buffers added. There is a nice side-on picture in Yeadons to copy from and everything is more or less in the right place. If the parts for the D24 etc arrive next week this will get put to one side for a rainy day, but it should end up being a pleasant little loco when it is re-painted.

6 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

CXW1

That is brilliant really for a first effort. The panels that are brown possibly just contrast a bit too much? I've also had that problem - its not so obvious when the coats are wet!

Andrew

Andrew, many thanks for the feedback - I agree with you. I think there was too much contrast in the base colours on each panel. More subtlety is required and it will probably be a case of trial and error before I end up with something that I'm happy with.

I couldn't remember the name of the stuff I used to thin-down the oil paint when I posted the picture yesterday, but it is Windsor and Newton Liquin from the local art shop. It seems to give a decent satin finish. Not my idea - I think I saw someone else on RMWeb use it a few years ago.

Cheers

Chris 

I hadn't planned to do anything this evening but an envelope containing some wheels for the J79 arrived in the post and the temptation proved to be too great. I am using Alan Gibson wheels which I think look better than the equivalent Markits wheels that I used on the J78 crane tank earlier on this thread. I really don't get on with Alan Gibson crankpins though, so I tapped the holes for the crankpins to 10BA and used some Romford crankpins instead. A very light touch with the soldering iron is needed when soldering on the washers, but I guess some Loctite would probably also work. 

Anyhow, it works and it runs nicely - certainly better than it did with the original chassis (although this was down to me rather than the design of the chassis). I have used one of the new High Level 1015 motors and I must say that they are very good. I need to make some brakes next, and I must get some paint for this and few other things. 

I have fitted a Westinghouse pump in the cab as suggested by the RCTS book. Pretty pointless really as you can't see it. 

26 minutes ago, micknich2003 said:

Chris, you mention GA drawings, here's part of the H&BRly Class J, you should find the details useful. Yours, Mick.

Thanks Mick. I was planning to get in touch to ask if you had any pictures or drawings of inside the cab, in particular the arrangement of the splashers, but this is perfect. 

14 minutes ago, gr.king said:

If you stick, as you properly should, to one set of wheel and track standards, then it is easier to follow pure principles.

 

The trouble with OO, despite its many advantages, is that it is a family of standards rather than a single standard, and if you want to try to run guest stock on your layout, or run your stock on a friend's layout when you don't use exactly the same standards, then it becomes rather difficult to apply pure principles successfully. Slightly impure, or downright rough and ready methods may be more practical.

 

I suppose that properly executed springing ought to allow a loco with fine wheel standards to cope more effectively when traversing unexpectedly large crossing gaps, while keeping all wheels on uneven rails as much of the time as is possible, but springs can't possibly keep exactly the same load on a wheel at all times, irrespective of their degree of compression, so presumably that method fails the test of purity too.

 

On another matter, we don't see many 'Ull and Barnsley locos on here do we? Might we see more in due course?

There's a bit more 'Ull and Barnsley stuff on my workbench thread over in the kitbuilding and scratchbuilding section. 

You will also see some hornblocks and single compensation beams, so I might have to duck for cover.....

Cheers

Chris 

The front splasher/sandbox is clearly not the same material as most of the loco. Is it carved from plastic? 

Yes, it is made form plasticard. It is hollow inside rather than being carved. I have struggled to make this type/shape of splasher in the past and find that I can make something that looks more realistic from plastic. It also avoids shorts.

I don't think any of the N12s lasted beyond the 1930s so you are right in that not many people alive today will have a living memory of them. Plus, they weren't the most photographed of things which helps when we get into discussions about accuracy. 

10 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I don't think you will go far wrong with what you have done Chris. Practical, simple engineering works every time!

That approach definitely works best for me, and you have seen that most of my stuff runs OK. If I'm being honest a lot of the really technical discussions go way over my head. 

D24 continued…..

I made the basic shape of the cab last night and soldered it to the footplate. It is nice and square despite the best efforts of my phone camera to suggest otherwise. I will fit the beading and other details at a later stage. Still some tidying up, filling and filing needed on the valance.

The chassis is now fixed to the footplate with two 8BA nuts and bolts. One of them is in the cab which you can’t see, and the other one is soldered to the messy afterthought of a bracket that I have attached to the middle of the footplate. You won’t be able to see this when the splashers and upper frames are fitted (and if I use a shorter bolt) so it should be OK.

The loco is currently sitting 2mm lower than it should be, but the correct size wheels will remedy this when they turn up. The square piece of brass between the bogie and the footplate is just a temporary spacer until I make something more permanent.

I was initially unsure about using twin beams on the driving axles having never built anything using this system. However, the model seems to be pretty steady and stable when I shove it along the test track so it appears to work in principle. The bogie has no springing in an attempt at providing the ‘3-legged stool’ principle. I’ve just been reading a lively debate about this over on the Wright Writes thread so let’s not go into too much detail about compensation (or the lack of it) here...

A quick update on some progress with the D24. Most of the material I need for this is on back order with Eileeens but I found enough brass lying around to make a start on the footplate. I was in two minds whether to make it as a single piece, or three separate units (i.e. the main straight part and the front and rear lower parts. In the end I went for the first option as I thought this would give it more strength. 

Well, what a right sod that was to make and I still need to get the shape of the valance sorted out and a few other details - it is far from finished and is just plonked in place on the photo below, and I don't have the correct 26mm driving wheels yet. This will be my first scratchbuilt loco which doesn't have a level footplate so it is a bit of learning 'curve' (excuse the pun). 

I am going to use the twin beam chassis that I made yesterday and make it fit. The loco is going to be constructed via several sub-assemblies (including cosmetic frames around the front bogie) and it will all come together in the end.

I have enough brass sheet to make a start on the cab. The sides and roof are going to have to be a single piece of brass and the step-down at the rear means that it isn't going to be the most straightforward of jobs.

A bit of paint and some transfers on the 'family heirloom' Y8 body today. It has turned OK for a rough old thing that was more or less on the scrapheap a few days ago. It is never going to be a showcase model but that was never the intention. Next job is to make it work but I don't have any wheels, gearbox or motor that will fit. It was very much an after-thought to start on the Y8 a few days ago so I will have to order some stuff. 

I have also done a bit more to the twin beam experiment for what will hopefully turn into a D24. I have made and trial-fitted the beams and I have surprised myself because it appears to work (or at least it will when it is supported by a bogie at the front end). I fall firmly into the 'non-engineer' category and most of what I do is just trial and error and working from drawings on the back of an envelope. So far so good.....(I think)..

6 minutes ago, micknich2003 said:

Chric, K's did a special wheel for their Y8, plastic centered with a "D Fixing" for quartering, I used them a lot in the '70's.

Mick, I'm pretty sure that it originally had the Ks wheels and a Ks motor, but I don't know what happened to them after the early '90s 'improvements'. I haven't seen them since so I presume they ended up in the bin. The DS10 motor that it acquired was in a motor mount on the front axle. I am guessing that the oversize Romford wheels were fitted because they were slightly bigger than the gear. At least I can hold my hands up and say 'I wasn't responsible'. 

Sorry - managed to post the same thing twice - now removed. 

A family heirloom – Ks Y8

I can’t make any progress on the J79 or D24 until the postman brings some bits and pieces.  

A brief conversation on here with micklner a few days ago about Y8 tank locos (and the fact I’ve got nowt else to do) spurred me on to looking at my old Ks Y8. This was originally made by my late grandfather around 40 years ago and it used to sit in his glass cabinet next to the best china. It was painted green and I can’t remember it ever working in that condition. 

A 'successful' attempt to make it work was made in the early 1990s. This resulted in the fitting of oversize Romford wheels (which were probably the smallest available at the time but required a couple of holes being made in the footplate to accommodate them ) and a DS10 motor which stuck into the cab. I reckon it had a top scale speed of around 100mph.

At the end of the day the body is a bit rough, but it has some sentimental value and I thought it was about time that the Ks Y8 lived again. It will be updated using a modern motor and gearbox and the correct size wheels. But I still want to retain some of its original ‘character’ rather than do a full rebuild.

Chassis:

I have made a simple chassis which has a rigid rear axle and a front axle in hornblocks. The front axle rests on a fixed beam and should give it some basic compensation. A gearbox will be fitted to the rear axle. Coupling rods were made up from Alan Gibson universals.

The chassis is shown below with the offending oversize Romford wheels mentioned above just to get everything set up and running freely. Alan Gibson do some wheels the correct size (3ft diameter).

Body:

Lots of little jobs done including repairing the holes in the footplate with an overlay of thin brass and making a new backhead. The backhead deliberately protrudes into the cab by a few millimeters to give some extra room for the gearbox and motor.

Repairs have been done to the clack valves, tank balance pipe and whistle. New boiler handrails and buffers have been fitted and I have carved off the smokebox door handle and made up a new ‘wheel’ handle. 

This will end up being LNER No. 560 which was turned out in lined black until 1937.

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

Malcolm Crawley built one in LNER 1930s condition and found a reference to them being green up to the 1927/28 livery change and lined black after that. Red lining on a black loco is very tricky to pick up as many films used in that period did not register red. There have been great discussions elsewhere about the technical aspects. There is always a chance that some didn't get lined or were so filthy the lining is invisible but as a secondary passenger class, they should have been lined.

 

If you zoom in on the photos of 2428 and 2429, you can see it on the splashers. When I first looked I couldn't but a good zoom in made it clear.

I agree Tony. It was just wishful thinking on my part hoping that I didn't have to bother with lining. There is a long way to go before we start thinking about paint....