Will Hay

I see.

Effectively, as I show them, my crossovers are pointless, aren't they?

Although, having said that, my colour coding isn't strictly correct.

Historically I tend to run five tracks as four or, in this case, four tracks as three.

This is clearer on my very first, L shape proposal.

As I'm not automated points at this time, doing it this way means each locomotive crosses a point at two occasions and adds some curvature to the travel, rather than just traversing a standard loop.

The diamond set up looks very nice, though.

Oh, and as far as the outer, four loops; blue is clockwise and green is anti-clockwise, or vice-versa.

1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

Doesn't matter what I like or not, really, but I do think that's an improvement.

 

I like how you can get (via a few reverses) to/from the outer shed to the siding area, good for loco changes. I can't see an easy way to get from the inner shed to the sidings without going via the station, which would be nice if it were possible.

 

However, can you squash the crossovers up on the right hand side so you've got direct access from all lines to/ from the sidings area? Do you have any intention of having lines for particular directions or is it going to be a free for all?

Not sure what you mean by squashing up the crossovers adjacent to the sidings I'm afraid.

When I added the trio of sheds I did think of running a line from the [middle bottom] sidings through one of the sheds, I might have a play with that now.

4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

There's a couple of changes I'd make - the diamond on the approach to one shed I'd replace with a LH point. The track up to the diamond could than become a siding if you wanted.

 

In the bottom right in not sure what the track that bypasses the yard approach is for, and it doesn't actually align properly anyhow. I wouldn't use it myself.

 

Otherwise I think you've got a decent answer to the question you were asking, and should have a lot of fun with it.

Perfect, Zomboid, thanks.

I know you don't like the redundant track at the bottom, I've tidied it up [partly based on your thinking and do now like the diamond formation front, and to a far lesser extent, at the back] but I do I prefer an entry and egress point, even if that does include some reversing.

Firstly, sincere thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

I'm sure these questions have been asked millions of times and whilst instinct tells me I've taken up far too much of your time and expertise, your support has been invaluable.

The image shown is pretty much what I intend to run with.

Very different to that I came with and it's genuinely exciting to see what I've now added, thanks to you all.

I've added a means to run trains from the three engine sheds I have, shown inner right, directly to any of the three, inner platforms.

This is pretty exciting to be honest.

This is a huge improvement to my previous trio of engine sheds which really, if I'm honest and as they exited onto R1 track, were only or show.

I've also added a means to load and unload all kinds of wagons and ballast I have ready.

I haven't shown a turntable as I just don't like them, but unless I'm mistaken I can enter this [fiddle?] area from four separate points on the inner R2 track and pick up and drop off [hopefully, unless I'm missing something!]

I'm going to leave the inner left section clear for both removable access and some car parking, booking hall etc.

So, again, sincere thanks and if you do see any tweaks that would help without a huge change and still have the energy to contribute I've be eternally grateful.

With thanks,

Rob [Will Hay]

Thank you.

I've what I need as far as stations and loops, that you see on the inner right was my interpretation of a holding area that I could perhaps store stock and locomotives not running at any one time.

I can see that's it not easily accessible, nor easy to navigate without a lot of messing around.

I also have work to do bottom left which ifeally/would make sense/should be accessible from the inner left loops.

The trouble there is that's where my removable hatch is, and I'm reluctant to add too much there given that it'll constantly be removed.

Ah, well.

At the very least, I'm settled on the square donut as I call it and today I insulated the 'layout' area of the loft.

Tomorrow my boy and I will insulate the storage loft area and, if I could find a reasonably priced source of 9mm birch ply and 45x20-ish PSE,  I'd be able to order sufficient materials for my baseboard.

Experience so far tells me that timber suppliers are either closed, out of stock or profiteering.

I'm on annual leave next week and hoped to get this built the early part of next week.

10 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Isn't the OP using DCC? The electrical complexities can be magicked away with return loop module things if so (though I believe the Hornby select controller can't provide enough current to operate them so would need upgrading).

If you're referring to the PSU then I've already upgraded to [what I think is?] the 4amp, i.e. the one that comes packaged with the 'Elite', and hence why I can run eight locomotives at once without issue.

Work to date shown below, which I'm somewhat pleased with.

The problem, as I'm new to this, is that I don't understand the potential of what I can build and ultimately engage with, and the functions I can achieve to prevent me from getting bored of a number of trains going around and around [i.e. my initial plan].

I think, based on the excellent contributions by all of you, I want four elements...

The first necessarily is obviously the loops, which you'll see I've achieved, with the forums excellent advice.

The second aspect is the stations, thanks to Chimer, although I'm not happy with the curves and for some reason couldn't match the uniformity shown by Chimer.

I want to add some thing to do on the inner right, based on Chimer's design but unsure what functions I'll carry out here and not sure what the centre piece is [station?].

The fourth is something [shown as a work in progress, bottom left] I want to engage with, which I hoped could utilise my three engine sheds in some way but, as you will see, I'm struggling here.

24 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Removale/lifitng section: What most people do is fix the rails to the lifting board and simply cut them at the joint. Make sure that the tracks are aligned when the board is replaced (there are various ways of doing this) and supply the tracks with power using flexible leads.

 

If the other half of the loft is currently for storage, and you have to move through the layout area to get to the storage and the loft ladder is consuming floor space in the layout area, then there is a clear answer to all this. Swap the layout space with the storage space. Now the layout space has a clear floor area, only needs one lifting section (or "duck-under") to get into the operating well and when you're playing trains other people can get to the storage area unhindered.

 

A fine idea, but the cost to develop the storage space to the level of the layout space is not something I can invest in, I'm afraid.

I've decided to proceed with your idea of the square, it's clearly the best option [so thanks to you and all] but reduce it slightly so it doesn't impede the access hatch.

This way I can still access the storage without affecting the layout and will have a  removable section in the layout for the ladder [shown in red].

I'm working on the layout as I type, but I'm struggling to incorporate Chimer's upper section of multiple stations.

Goodness only knows how I'll get on with the lower, 'industrial' aspect 

Bravo, very nice.

The lower element is hugely beneficial to my current thinking.

I'm sold on the square donut now, Zomboid, thanks for the input 

I just need to know research what and how to add further interest rather than just my 'round and round'.

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

It's drawn to scale and I showed the hatch and the ladder in exactly the same positions that you showed them plus a lifting section in the baseboards to give clear access to the hatch. I don't understand how the ladder would interfere.

The point is, it would be worth making the effort to do something along these lines because you'd then have more room for everything - longer platforms, easier radii, goods yards, engine sheds, branchlines that "go somewhere", etc. etc...

 

Hello again.

Apologies, I may not have understood your layout correctly.

I naively thought you'd extended the track around the back of the hatch, when clearly you're showing it running over part of the opening, with some form of removable section.

I like that, I like it a lot but I'd be interested to learn how to properly and securely connect each track when the board/removable section is constantly being removed, do I simply remove the board and the track [from the removable board] before I decant from the loft each time, and drop in the board and reconnect the track sections when I return to the layout?

FUnit.

Thanks for the advice re. insulating, yes, I probably will although doubt I need to consider the law when utilise an existing space within my home.

The problem at the minute is it's getting super-hot up there, and I assumed, perhaps somewhat naively [again], that insulating the rafters would exacerbate the problem by maintaining the heat in the uppermost/loft section of the house.

I'm considering a velux type window, for ventilation.

All,

I'm now heavily leaning against the full perimeter track and assorted sheds/shunting aspects within it, the latter of which I've no real clue on as to how to put together.

However, it's worth bearing in mind that I'm running a [basic] Hornby select controller, my experience of CV's is absolutely zero and, as an example, my perception to date of CV's is that they automate a process I currently undertake manually, which to, pending research, seems to lessen my involvement.

As always, I'm sincerely grateful for the input so far.

EDIT 0705202017:46

Ah, one small drawback to the proposal from Phil...

....the left hand side of the loft, i.e. that I've never identified, is the same size as the layout I've shown.

I'm working in 50% of my loft space, the balance is storage.

The trouble is, the access to the loft storage isn't a case of coming up the hatch and going directly into the storage space, there's a roof truss there that means we traverse up the ladder, into what I'm going to call train space and, through the top left curve on Phil's layout, into the storage loft space.

I guess, as well as a removable section over the hatch, I could add a removable section to access the second loft space.

13 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Will,

 

Your ideas about what make a good layout are very different to mine but here's a very broad concept that maybe meets somewhere in the middle. Don't take the track layout literally - it would be  more interesting.

 

Edit: Have you accounted for the sloping ceilings in your loft? They will make the space available smaller depending on the height of the layout above floor level. And is the loft insulated and draught-proofed?

Many thanks.

Unfortunately I can't utilise that much space, it has to sit within the confines of the space required for the ladder, which h massively reduces the area.

I've uploaded a similar layout.

I think I'm saying towards Philip's superb advice as to mixing up tasks rather than solely round and round, I certainly have the stock and engine types to mix it up.

I think I'm struggling to know how to put this aspect together, but I'll try find some examples.

Raking rafters aren't an issue, I have approx 1000mm before the rake which is fine.

I intend to set the board about 750mm from FFL and I won't have buildings on the outer edge.

It's insulated, floor boarded and carpeted.

I'm intending to ply the roof/rafters but may not insulate them as well.

Thanks again.

26 minutes ago, Philou said:

Yep, I know the feeling - you come up with something and you find you can't get out of the loop (as it were). Can I suggest that you have a rummage around here on RMweb and look at some other ideas that have been put forward? I can't give you the sites as I'm hopeless at remembering. There is mine, but we're talking of a rather large layout and in my instance, my original idea was more or less it, as it turned out. It was modified but the basic concept survived.

 

In your instance, perhaps consider getting rid of all the first radius track as it won't do justice to your rolling stock - been there, done that. Using the outline plan of your baseboard, print a couple of copies off and with a pencil (do they still exist ?) just doodle a bit, not necessarily following what I suggested earlier, but play around a bit. When your ideas gel into perhaps something else, then use your computer planner to see if the parts fit. Just as a rule of thumb, when doing your design, allow 300mm for each coach and tender/diesel loco.

 

You might find a through station more satisfactory than having it on a sort-of-but-not-really a branch - again somewhere for your expresses to stop before going 'elsewhere'. If you do that, then how about one step on - steam locos, unlike diesels, did need a drink and feeding often. So, here's a reason for a loco to come off and a 'fresh' one to be brought out of a steam MPD and hitched on, and then sent away to 'elsewhere'. Your mainline station might have a branch off it leading to a smaller station elsewhere on your layout (you could use your 1st radius curves here). Using DCC you can operate a shuttle service to and from the main station. That'll keep another loco and a bit of stock busy and you won't have to control that - if you don't want to - as it can be done automatically.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in having things just going round, but I just feel you might want to evolve into something better AND keep things going round.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

That's absolutely superb that, Philip, that gives me plenty to think about.

All the best.

Rob [Will Hay]

41 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

So is the layout on the floor then? 

No, I'm just showing the full layout to give me an idea of remaining space/access whilst at the same time utilising as much space as I can.

12 minutes ago, Philou said:

Hmm ... I'm not one for bringing original thinking when it comes to plans, and at the end of the day it is YOUR layout, but it does seem that you have some cracking space of which to perhaps make better use. An example: Have a storage/fiddle yard for stock - you can never have enough stock. Perhaps a scenic run to show off your expresses, a goods yard/quarry/industrial area to keep your shunters busy - that sort of thing - a motive power depot too. You'd be surprised how much is involved in bringing a load of diesel to a depot and then sending it off again, bringing diesel locos from inside the MPD to be refuelled, shuffling and shunting. Goods trains to be formed up in the industrial area and then off 'somewhere'. Bringing in a goods from 'somewhere' and then sorting the wagons. I think you have the makings of something that may keep your interest more so than 'just' a roundy-roundy. Just my thoughts.

 

Oh and by the way, welcome to RMweb;

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Thanks Philip.

I came here to say I can't get past the picture shown [now with access hatches/lids], but you make some excellent points.

I think I'm limited by my imagination [I'm not limited by the technology of my time, that was Howard Stark] as I drew the large square and then just sat and looked at it blankly, trying to work out how to make it interesting.

I failed, despite looking at endless track designs via google.

I know I won't do this again once it's done, and really need to get it right.

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

So what about your existing layout do you want to improve on?

I want it bigger.

I have thirteen locomotives and regularly run nine at once without trouble.

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

 

Well, for one thing you could reach all your points …...

Fair point, but I tend to leave the points static.

I like the crossover, sure, but it's never been a primary requirement to change points.

Seems odd, I'm sure.

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

The great advantages of having a layout around you rather than being on one side of it is that access is much easier as already said and also that the trains go out of your field of vision and then reappear which give more of a feeling of them going somewhere on a roundy roundy. 

 

Whatever you decide I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from what you are doing as that is the reason why we all want/have layouts. Good luck, have fun.

Thanks Chris

I'm just at the start of designing a square layout with six loops at 2700mm [9' ish] x 2000mm x [6'9 ish] complete with centre access and whilst I haven't added any points yet it just feels boring.

I have the square on one monitor here and my original proposal on another with all its twists and turns and, setting aside the valid argument as to reach, there's no contest.

I'm now showing the entire loft space [the square on the left being the access hatch, the red being the space the ladder needs once folded].

49 minutes ago, Will Hay said:

It's in the loft, I'm just maximising space.

If I go 2' 6" wide how many loops is that?

I like to see this stuff moving. I've not much interest in much else

Thanks.

 

Edit.

Ah, a four sided square, I see.

Yes, that's a possibility, not sure why I didn't think of that.

I like it.

Ah, no, I'm not seeing how this is much different to that which I have already, with less loops, albeit slightly long straights and a hole in the middle for access.

It's in the loft, I'm just maximising space.

If I go 2' 6" wide how many loops is that?

I like to see this stuff moving. I've not much interest in much else

Thanks.

Edit.

Ah, a four sided square, I see.

Yes, that's a possibility, not sure why I didn't think of that.

I like it.

Many thanks all.

Yes, I'm aware of birch ply coming in 8' x 4' sheets, I just want to maximise every inch.

I already have a five loop 8' x 4' layout that started as a two loop layout, currently and temporarily sat on the playroom floor, following a Hornby trackmat pattern I started between Christmas and New Year, this is just a further development.

My scenery will be limited to a custom painted board by my [creative] wife for now, with assorted buildings, platforms and figures/cars etc.

Edit 06052020 07:33

The access restrictions of the 1400mm width is beginning to dawn on me

Hello.

I've created a layout for my loft and would be grateful if people could have a glance and offer some feedback?

I don't intend to motorise track points right now as that's somewhat beyond my immediate level of expertise, so I'm simply going to run the locomotives clockwise and anti-clockwise [green and blue], and tootle up and down the orange as and when.

Obviously there are a number of gaps shown that I intend to fill with the small, Hornby 38mm track lengths. 

I guess this might seem somewhat unorthodox [four/five tracks side by side] but I'm not looking to replicate any level of accuracy.

The thinking shown suits me, as does the mix of diesels [eight], shunters [two] and steam [three], plus assorted, decorative locomotives.

I'm also aware of significantly restricted access to the far side but I'm reluctant to add an access hole.

My intent is simply set them all off and control them as and when they go around.

Sincere thanks,

Will

Buggleskelly Station

Notes:

1. Hornby 00

2. DCC