ForeverAutumn

21 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

If payment was only taken on 13th June, then I'd assume that will be the date of dispatch from Sheffield, which probably means it hasn't left the UK yet, but will probably do so soon.  How long it takes to get to you in the US will largely depend on US Customs.  Having ordered from a model shop in the US last year, it seemed to take at least three weeks before it got to me in the UK, but at least two weeks of that seemed to be customs clearance in the UK and then writing to me to pay the import VAT before it could be delivered.  Ultimately, it will take as long as it takes.

ah the customs, i guess i shall wait and see!

21 minutes ago, Half-full said:

You are best to contact Rails, rather than ask the question on here

will do that thanks

Hello,

i recently ordered the Bachmann Jinty from Rails, i ordered it on May 24th, 2020 and the payment was just taken on June 13th, i live in the US and this is my first time ordering from them, how long would it take to arrive given the current situation? I am hoping to get it soon, but i have no way (to my knowledge) of tracking my order.

11 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

This is a bit "broad brush" but, for your purposes, you would not go far wrong to say that any turnout that a passenger train will run over will be controlled from the box, the rest by hand levers. Keep in mind that some will be paired together in the form of crossovers. So there will be some (e.g. exit from goods yard) where a turnout will be controlled by the box because the other end of the crossover is used by passenger trains.

Right, much obliged

Good evening, Now one thing i'm inexperienced in,are points, most switches that I have seen around here are manual, in the UK, which switches would usually be controlled via signal box, and which ones are likely to be manuals?

20 minutes ago, Corbs said:

 

Gotcha, in 'the books' the quarry tramway belongs to the mainline company (the NWR) hence having an enlarged engine and carriage shed to house the tram loco and quarry workers' train. Previously the loco shed had 2 roads.

Ah, I see. That's where my trouble was I incorrectly thought the quarry owned the tramway, thank you for clearing that up

2 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Possibly. But then the "tramway" is part of the mainline company's territory. And what do you fill the rest of the board with?

 

4' is a wide baseboard - even when you have access from both sides. Most layouts will look better on narrower boards as that creates an illusion of more length.

The tramway itself will likely be a  gradient, consisting of a runaway siding, a bridge, and a road crossing all travelling up in an S shape leading to a quarry if I do the quarry and the tramway at all 

6 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It's not the terminus itself that is the problem. That's OK if perhaps a little bit less interesting than you could do in the space.

 

The real difficulty is the interface between the main line company's railway and the quarry company's line. It needs some workable exchange sidings. If you don't want to make major changes because of the bits that you have already done, it would be better to put the exchange sidings where you have the sheds and the quarry company's loco sheds top left where you have the sidings.

 

Just for fun, while we are all in lockdown, I might spend a couple of hours drawing the arrangement that I wrote about (both for your 16' x 4' space and for a more typical UK space 11'6 x 7'6 (interior dimensions of a 12' x 8' garden shed).

 

 

If that's the case than could possible exchange sidings be placed into the outskirts of the quarry itself, where an engine takes it from there down the tramway to the terminus

7 hours ago, Corbs said:

Hello ForeverAutumn

 

Is it a rendition of Ffarquhar on the fictional NWR you are wanting to model, or an LMS variant of same?

Yes it is Ffarquhar, but I am trying to make it with LMS techniques,

Another question of mine would be if that the Lms wouldn't design a terminus like this would there be any of the big 4 that would be likely to design a station like this? If there is one I could shove this project aside and use the space for an LMS layout or go with this design and change the company, my decision can be swayed as I don't have any British inventory apart from a Hornby Flying Scotsman, an E2, and a couple teaks and trucks

12 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Looking at the latest track plan, you seem to have a lot hinging on the line running up to the quarry.

 

Quarry access, Goods shed access, loco then the loco shed and carriage shed access as well.

 

One derailment from an errant goods wagon (not uncommon in real life) and the whole lot is going to come to a grinding halt.

 

You have a massive shed and carriage complex which are totally out of proportion to the the branch line it serves.

 

At most the shed might house two locos and the carriages,  probably only two, would probably get stored in the platform road overnight.

 

If you want to see how a set of exchange sidings could be laid out then I'd direct you to this thread by Brian Rolley.

 

Everything has been planned out before you get to the track plan.

 

It might give you more of a feel for British railway operation.

 

It just covers the exchange sidings side of the operation but you can see how Brian has separated the colliery line from the BR line even if they are parallel.

 

t

 

 

 

Yes the turnouts will likely end up in different areas this is not final, but is definitely a design I am attempting to go for, the turnouts will probably have a wide radius to prevent derailment and the carriage shed should be about 17-18 inches, the loco shed being about 6-7 inches

A somewhat revised version has been made so that it makes sense, signalbox (on the left) and signals added as suggested by a user in the thread, the quarry line disappears behind some houses, and the line to the left will connect to another baseboard leading to halt, (off the top of my head the halt sorta resembles Newtondale Halt, despite that being an LNER station if I'm not mistaken) knowing me I definitely put the signals in the wrong places, (lack of ever going to the UK will do that to ya)

12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Good Morning,

Refreshed with sleep and coffee, I would suggest a new approach. A 4' wide baseboard would be better split down the centre into two scenes. The LMS branchline/terminus on one side with exchange sidings, the quarry complex on the other side with the quarry company line running between them via a 180 degree curve, probably through a short tunnel. LMS sub-shed, if any, at the terminus. Shed for the quarry company at the quarry. 

This is a good idea, however the baseboard was built months ago, the polystyrene was already glued down, and a river was cut on the side area long ways on the board this plan I found used the most space and still had room for some roads and houses.

2 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

So draw them in imperial measurements if you are more comfortable with it!

 

As the Johnster has said previously, draw the plan at 1" = 1'.

 

Most of the old codgers on here still probably work in imperial measurements, the youths in metric.

 

Instead of 4mm to the foot, use  5/32 (3.9mm) to the foot, which is slightly under, or if you want to go oversize very slightly, plan on using 11/64 (4.3 mm).

 

 

I will likely do that these are just rough outlines in templots sketchpad that I made

24 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

That sounds more like it, but the stone cutting is usually (not always, but usually) done on site at the quarry.  OTOH cutting needs water for cooling the saw blades, and if there's no water at the quarry...

Yes there is water in the quarry, it flows south and flows beside the station.

3 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

No it doesn't, sorry.  Quarry is quarry and LMS is LMS; LMS locos and passenger stock not allowed on quarry railway and vice versa.  No through running between quarry and LMS except for the mineral wagons, LMS loco and brake van come off at the exchange sidings.

 

All subject to Rule 1 of course....

That makes sense, this I all new to me I don't know how a lot of this works, perhaps the quarry engine will leave trucks in an enchange siding at the quarry then a LMS engine acquires the rolling stock and brings it to a stone cutting facility at the terminus, then it will take it down to the harbor.

21 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Not helping much with the signalling I know, but a comment about the UK approach to engine sheds and carriage sheds on branch lines.  Much depends on the timetable and the first train of the day.  This may originate at the branch terminus as a commuter service to the main line junction, in which case the loco needs to be kept in light steam overnight at a shed at the terminus, and a carriage shed, or at least a siding with an access platform, will be provided at the terminus as well for local cleaning ladies to get at it before the first trip.  If, however, the first train brings the London newspapers, it will originate at the junction, and the loco facilities and carriage shed will be there.

 

Personally, I would not have a loco and carriage shed if I were modelling a BLT unless there was one there in real life or at a real life location that I am using as an 'inspiration' for an imagined place.  They stand empty for most of the operating day, dead space that could be better used for a small industry, or a wharf, or in this case the exchange sidings.  If there is traffic brought to the site by a quarry loco you need exchange sidings beyond which the LMS loco cannot go in one direction and the quarry loco cannot go in the other; they are not allowed on each others' metals.

 

Your quarrymen's trains are what we call workmen's trains, in the working timetable but not advertised to the public; the public can use them if they are aware of them though.  Usually older stock and in the case of miner's or quarrymen's, in the days before washing facilities were provided for the men at the mine or quarry, with the upholstery removed leaving bare wooden benches that were easier to clean.  They are subject to the same regulations as any passenger train and will come to the passenger station.  There may be a 'paddy' train on the quarry railway to take the men the rest of the way, and these could be very basic and rough affairs, but not allowed on the main line railway, only within the quarry system.

 

An 8x4' board will need access all the way around it or there will be parts difficult to reach for cleaning or rescuing derailments.

The first train of the day is a commuter to the junction, a train that carries the London papers as you say, keeps its coaches in a siding at the junction, the engine will head up from the terminus with a goods presumably, to the junction where it acquires the London papers. The quarry trains will culminate at the stonecutters wharf, they run around and head back up the quarry tramway, an LMS engine then takes the train and heads up the branch to a harbour.

The layout baseboard was constructed awhile ago, I am simply just getting around to using it, it is 8x4 foot, I am definitely gonna expand the board and connect them to the next board as well

12 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

For layout planning, 1 foot = 30 centimetres/ 40 inches = 1 metre is near enough. Otherwise 4mm = 1 foot is very convenient.

Sorry, I forgot to welcome you to RMweb!

Yes thank you, I do use the 4mm to 1 foot system and I do use it

7 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

Do you have access to both sides of the station as it's a bit too wide to reach over from one side?

 

Being GWR orientated I'm no expert on Furness Railway signalling, but by the late LMS era they could well have been replaced by the standard LMS upper quadrant. Contrary to American practice, a home or starter means stop. (I understand that it can be passed at slow speed on sme roads at least.)

 

It's unlikely likely that the shed would serve both quarry locos (presumably owned by the quarry company) and LMS locomotives. (Ignore this, of course, if the quarry locomotives are LMS stock.)

 

Four feet is rather generous for a pair of coaches, even if it includes a third strengthener for market day.

I do have access to both sides and the sheds are a bit big as I do not have experience with the metric system, it is meant to be around 2 and a half feet

7 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

Do you have access to both sides of the station as it's a bit too wide to reach over from one side?

 

Being GWR orientated I'm no expert on Furness Railway signalling, but by the late LMS era they could well have been replaced by the standard LMS upper quadrant. Contrary to American practice, a home or starter means stop. (I understand that it can be passed at slow speed on sme roads at least.)

 

It's unlikely likely that the shed would serve both quarry locos (presumably owned by the quarry company) and LMS locomotives. (Ignore this, of course, if the quarry locomotives are LMS stock.)

 

Four feet is rather generous for a pair of coaches, even if it includes a third strengthener for market day.

I do have access to both sides and the sheds are a bit big as I do not have experience with the metric system, it is meant to be around 2 and a half feet

1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

It would be separate sheds (or more likely no loco shed or carriage shed for the LMS). And where are these quarrymen's trains going? Not along the main branch. We need to add another line, disappearing off-scene to the quarries themselves.

 

Two locations occur to me that you could work from as a basis: Wirksworth (ex-Midland) and Coniston (ex-Furness).

 

 

The quarrymen trains head up the branch to the mainline junction then then they head back down, past the sheds and disappear behind some buildings, the line is the at the top and goes to the right

1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

OK, I forgot that this is just the first part of the empire. But let's say from that drawing that this station and quarry sidings is in a space about 16' x 3'.

 

A carriage shed of more than one road seems unlikely in this context. Is the loco shed for main line company engines or (more probable) quarry company locos?

 

A more probable arrangement would be some interchange sidings off the LMS branch and then access to the quarry complex. The goods shed can be fitted in various locations.

 

 

Yes sheds are for quarry locos as well, the carriage shed fits two suburban coaches, as well as coaches for quarrymen, 

19 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

What size are the squares (i.e. how much space have you got?)? What sort of trains do you want to run?

 

I think that some of us here could show you ways of making better use of that space.

For space I have a basement that is 24x40 ft (7.3x12.1m) (excluding stairs and walls), the grid squares represent 150mm I believe, (the metric system is uncharted territory for me) the trains, are stopping passengers and goods from the stone quarry, the signal box I neglected to add to the plan, is meant to be left of the goods shed facing the track the leads into the yard, the two goods sheds, are meant to be operated by different companies, (one for public transport (on the left), the other for private companies (on the right). The run around in the sidings are for stone trains which come in from the front then run around, the engine shed should be no more than 6 inches (152.4mm)

Right, ive found the design I made in templot, Its only slightly outdated, but it should help the light gray square represents a goods shed, the darker blue ones are the station, and goods station, the brown square are coal staithes, the lighter blue is a carriage shed and the black square is an engine shed. The line on the top continues to the right and goes to a stone quarry, the sidings on said line will probably provide for a stonecutter.