Joeh260

I Think the last track plan is what I will end up going for. Will probably order the track/point motors within the next few days. any other suggestions? still rather unsure on how this would be signalled or which are the best readily available signals that can be purchased so any help on that would be appreciated.

as suggested here are the jpg files instead of pdf for the last 2 designs.

6 hours ago, Miserable said:

if you did that you could have the layout/fiddle yard interface also half way along the top. I'm assuming the bit between the layout baseboards and the fiddle yards is a removable bridge for access, but there's no real reason why the fiddle yard sidings couldn't all extend over the bridge, coming together just before the scenic section, vastly increasing storage space.

I did originally consider something like that when I increased the layout area but unfortunately nothing permanent can go in front of that corner so may become an obstruction and for whatever reason if the bridge wasn't removed. I could see something getting damaged if somebody else was to remove it. I'm probably best keeping stationary locomotives on more permanent boards.

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You’ve got a great space there, so try to avoid crowding it solid with track if you want it to look realistic - there is actually a lot of operational potential in that station, if you wire it right.

 

BTW, your sidings now look a bit short; the real things were usually quite long.

I agree that crowding the layout any more will start to detract from the realism of the layout. I increased the siding lengths more on the newer design (pdf 7)

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Joeh - is what I'm contributing helping, or not, because if not, you only have to say.

Yes it is very much helping as your ideas have significantly changed the plan.

Slight redesign of the layout making the sidings a bit bigger and increasing the radius of which trains enter the station.

(siding on the top left will probably still need increasing in length

7.pdf

slight alterations to points

7.2.pdf

6 hours ago, Miserable said:

Just another thought. It would depend on the geography of the room a bit, but I'd be tempted to look at the station/yard bit going diagonally from the top-middle to bottom right. It would 'waste' a load of space in the top right corner but you could ease the curves somewhat which might be nice.

I could increase the radius of the curve a bit on the top right but to the amount I think you mean would probably take too much space as it would make the top right increasingly difficult to access. Although when looking at the slightly newer plan (pdf 7) I have increased the radius entering the station as you suggested but I don't think it can be made much larger.

13 hours ago, Miserable said:

Well that certainly opens it up! Potential for interesting bridge or such on the approach. I suppose having the goods yard split adds operation potential, more need to cross over and such. One of the appealing features of your designs is avoiding filling every space with track, they've all had a nice small country station feel to them. Obviously it's up to you but I'd not go for a whole lot more track - J guess it depends on how you feel about doing scenery ;-)

Definitely makes it look a little bigger. The only two problems I see with this track plan is the reduction of the fiddle yard size and the possible gradient that may be needed to reach the same height of the fiddle yard however I still need to fully sort the space before I can say if it will be a problem. 

I certainly don't think much more track needs to be added but the station areas track plan could be altered if the is a much better solution. On the longer strait piece of track the goods yard could be placed there or sidings but it may look better with the main focus of that section being the scenery and not the track and just keeping it as a long(ish) run towards the station which could be overall more effective.

Just as an idea what do you think something more like this. Do you think would be an overall better option? It would significantly reduce the fiddle yard to 5-6 roads that can hold a locomotive and 4-5 coaches however it significantly increases the scenic area and reduces various other issues. I know that the space isn't very well utilised on that plan listed below but couldn't use any more track on the free version of AnyRail.

6.pdf

any ideas/input?

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I think in both you will be popping in and out of the FY as you shunt the goods yard, which may or may not suit you.

 

Of the two, the top one flows better, so why not simply mirror-image it if you want the yard at the front for shunting?

 

BTW, you could use the siding nearest the platform as a dual-purpose road - a bay platform sometimes, and a goods road at other times, unloading on the ‘off’ side. Such practice is rarely shown on layouts, but wasn’t unknown in reality. Having the option of a bay can nicely increase operational options.

I can see what you mean with the fiddle yard being entered numerous times during operation any ideas on a way to overcome this problem?

Updated the design once again. I have reduced the platform length as suggested by @Nearholmer then moved the platform around a bit. On the two designs on the pdf file below I have alternated the position of the goods yard so on the lower design the main focal point would be the goods yard hopefully reducing the attention from the station and the platform length. The lower track plan also allowed the whole station to be brought slightly more to the right increasing the overall area of the town (far left).

On the pdf the platform start and end is marked in yellow.

5.pdf

Any other suggestions/improvements welcome. 

Edit: lower track plan doesn't really indicate increased space on the far left very well as I forgot to decease the track length beyond the point.

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Is this 0 or 00?

 

I started reading it as 00, and had a suggestion, but then 0 points got mentioned.

 

Anyway, here goes: you platforms are pretty long in comparison with the total area on view, which constricts what you can do, and affects the overall look of the thing. How long will the trains (and hence FY be)?

 

The barely concealed hint in that being that if you kept trains shorter than those platforms imply, you could probably have a better layout.

The layout will be 00 gauge. I planed on running 4-5 coach trains. The platform will probably look much longer though due to the additional space required for the headshunt. 

Had another try on AnyRail and tried to put the goods yard at the rear of the layout but making it fit in a bit better and holding more rolling stock whilst not looking as forced. not sure if it looks better than having the goods yard on the front as it will be less visible. However the station may look slightly bigger as @The Johnstersaid "The overall curvature induces an illusion of increased length as the trains approach the viewer from a more head-on angle and turn into a more ¾ front then a side on view" but takes a very similar amount of space as the original plan. Plus a few curved points have been used as suggested which has enabled the station to be more on a gradual curve whilst taking slightly less space.

4.pdf

Still undecided on where the goods yard should be positioned yet but I do think the station being curved is an improvement.

Had a go trying AnyRail earlier, only got up to this point. 3.pdf not sure if this new plan would look any better so any feedback would be appreciated. I find that the points leading into the goods yard front the centre of the station area may look strange if actually used.

Perhaps if the main running line that connects up to the fiddle yard would be lowered down to about half way down the right hand side then there may be room to put the goods yard above the station at the rear of the board instead of at the front like on current plans. if the station was still curved then the should be a decent enough space to do that. 

11 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

That’s the sort of thing, but I’d imagined the curve running more towards the rear of the boards at the town end as well. 
 

so fully curving the station so it points more towards the top left?

2 minutes ago, Miserable said:

I forget the numbers for Peco, but they aren't that tight (in O they min 6ft radius). I appologise if granny, eggs, but have you had a go with AnyRail, the free software I used for my plan. It has all the Peco etc templates in it - you just join the dots with flexitrack. You can add buildings and so on. Just a thought.

I haven't tried AnyRail but its probably worth doing if it will give the dimensions of the pre-existing peco track. ill have to try it later.

51 minutes ago, Miserable said:

Have you considered using curved points? I may be just me, but I find they can add a nice 'flow' to the layout. With yours switching from top to bottom this may work? The down side is you may have to angle the platforms, or have curved ones. Below is my track plan which uses only curved points (one home made) and a Y. The space is not wildly dissimilar to yours.

I have considered the use of curved points and will more than likely have to use one or two, however I find most ready available curved points seem to look like they are quite a sharp radius'.

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The layout will work well enough as it is drawn, but I have some suggestions, made in the spirit of ‘this is what I’d do’; I’m not you and your thoughts may be different entirely.  
 

Firstly, I’d introduce a gentle curvature to impart a more natural ‘feel’ to the scene, with the running line entering towards the rear top right, and curving towards the bottom, I assume front edge, then back towards the rear at the left ‘town’ end. 
 

This opens several possibilities.  There will be room at the town end for the stub end of the loop to diverge with a Y point to a siding serving a goods shed, provenance store, or even a small industry.  This means the goods yard, at the country end, can be devoted to mileage and coal staithes, with maybe a cattle or end loading dock. 
 

In addition, as the running line now enters the fiddle yard at the rear of the layout, if we assume that it is not a sector plate type, there is now a bit of space in front of the ‘throat’ of it to extend the goods yard roads into.  

This means that the area behind the bay platform, since the curve has brought the platform, loop, and bay towards the front edge, is now ripe for development; town buildings, industry, harbour, canal wharf, dairy, quarry, colliery exchange sidings, hill, whatever. 

Don't think I have interpreted your idea properly (if at all) Something more like this?

2.pdf

Started this as a new topic for this as I have changed the layout idea completely. The baseboards for the layout are already made and the current scenic area is 12" x 2" as shown in the pdf file below. The rest of the current baseboards will form a temporary fiddle yard until I have the time to set up more baseboards and hopefully slightly warmer weather. 

The pdf attached below shows the track plan that I'm relatively happy with but have a few questions about and would also like some suggestions on. I would prefer if only slight modifications where made to the track on the plan as the rear of the baseboard is quite restricted for space underneath which will make installing point motors and wiring rather difficult if possible at all.

My questions are;

1. How would I signal this layout? (placement of signals and what kind)

2. On diagram B any suggestions what I could put in this area? I have looked at putting longer sidings as shown on diagram C in the red box but it looks quite forced being so cluttered around that area. however it give more storage for wagons/coaches and may look slightly more prototypical than having the goods yard coming of the passing loop for the station.

3. With the goods yard being rather small only holding around 5-6 wagons on each line what sort of goods would be taken to/from this sort of yard. perhaps the main industry for this goods yard could be placed opposing it in the area designated in that white box on diagram B.

track plan.pdf

Any pictures of similar types of layout or real locations for inspiration would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks 

Joe

19 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

You could have ends on the FY, just plywood dropping into a couple of slots one each side of the rails. I have one which pops up when my lifting section is up which is 99% successful.

Maybe a wheeled FY could have some guide rails on the floor you could drop in to guide it in place?  

6ft ceiling?  Non starter for me,  nowhere for the bobble on my bobble hat and my son is 6ft 2"  I'd have to operate from one of those 5 wheeled rotating office chairs.  Best of luck.

Perhaps if a second layer isn’t possible just adding slots on the fiddle yard and blocking the ends for moving May be the alternate option. The height of the room isn’t ideal, It’s because it’s in the basement. It’s very low in that room considering all of the upstairs rooms have high ceilings of 10-11ft.

On 22/06/2020 at 18:24, Butler Henderson said:

Trailing it is probably really the only way to find out. This thread might help https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92303-model-railway-gradients/

 

Have looked at ways of doing the gradients and the space it will require. It is still possible to add a second layer to the layout. However the room will need fully sorting out before that could happen. Sill looking into the second layer and I’ll try to sort the room out over the next few days to see if it’s possible. 

19 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Joe,

So have I got this right? The room is used as a corridor, the floor is not level, the ceiling is only 6ft above the floor and the room is full of hot water pipes.

Are there any windows? Are there electrical power sockets? Lighting?

Could you post some photos so we can understand the space?

 

Thanks for the reply, The room does not get used as a corridor, the floor is not very level, the ceiling is just over 6ft and the room has got water and gas pipes throughout as the boiler and gas meter are both in there. Plus the main circuit board is also in there. plenty of power sockets in there and two lights.

Still unsure if adding a second level will be a good idea yet as under the layout is being used for storage. Also would adding a second layer restrict me from running longer trains due to the weight?

have been looking at ways of using wheels on the fiddle yard and if I am able to use Some sort of adjustable legs it may possible to store it. My main concern is when moving the fiddle yard is the rolling stock likely to roll off? Is the any way to hold them in place?

On 21/06/2020 at 15:57, The Johnster said:

I've run ancient 1960s Triang wheels successfully on current code 100 Peco Streamline, including turnouts, a couple of shorty GW clerestories which were re-wheeled afterwards anyway.  Recently acquired a Dock Authority shunter which gibbed at both Streamline and Setrack flangeways but this turned out to be a back to back issue easily solved by a bit of gratuitous brutality with an old screwdriver.  It now runs faultlessly, and manages my insulfrogs effortlessly.  Code 75 is another story, I reckon.  Any 'modern' stock should run ok on it, but I'd be wary of anything pre-90s, and doubt that 80s Lima will manage,  Rolling stock wheels can be easily enough replaced, except Hornby 'design clever' period, but those are recent enough to be ok anyway, but locos may be more difficult to convert to the required standard.  Turning the flanges down on a lathe if you have one or something that can be used as one such as a minidrill in a vice might be feasible, but might need a lot of cleaning up to achieve smooth running.  I'd be reluctant to turn them down in the chassis as filings will get everywhere!

It’s probably better if I put the older locomotives away. I think by the time I end up getting the chance to adjust them to modern standards I will have purchased newer stock. It seems like too much work and they may end up being damaged in the process.

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

Perhaps the way to deal with the removable fiddle yard is to fix it to sky (ceiling) hooks so it can be raised up above head height when out of use. Same priciple as old style clothes airer and use some sash window weights as counterbalance.

Thanks for the suggestion, Sounds like a good idea but the ceiling in the room is very low and is just over 6ft high.

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Different thought - what if the fiddle yard slid next to the left hand board; that end of it would be held firmly by whatever mechanism is used  - would wheels on the fair end still be problematic. 

A complete alternative would be have the layout as multi level with the fiddle yard below so the removable section can just be a scenic board.

More than likely the wheels may be a problem. A second level may be possible underneath the layout but it will  only be able have one entrance into it and would have to enter the lower level from the removable board (removal fiddle yard) it would need to go around 12-3 inches lower so not sure if the incline would be too steep. Don’t think a helix is an option as the isn’t enough room and they look rather expensive.

1 hour ago, Butler Henderson said:

Could it be made to rotate - plenty of examples of fiddle yards that go through 180 degrees and you only need say half that. Yes 1970s locos will go through Code 100 Peco if the points are of the 1970s/1980s design but probably will not go through any which have been retooled - my Rocket took offence to a single slip .

It may be a possibility that it could rotate but I am not sure how I would do it. I looked at ways of doing the wheels on the fiddle yard and how I would be able to store it whilst not in use. When not operational it would have some sort of adjustable legs to make sure it sits flat and not on a incline. Even then it will probably be in the way if I wanted to work on the layout as it would need to be moved to allow access to the permanent baceboards if it was not in its operational position.