MoonMonkey

Hi all, I'm a new modeler (not counting time spent as a kid/teenager) and started a layout.  I discovered Modelu people via the Little Muddle pages, got some figures, and love them.  Not literally, that would be weird.  I emailed a few pics to Alan and he suggested posting them on FacePlant.  Which I don't use.  So thought I'd pop them up here.  I see from other posts on RMWeb that the thing to do is state that I have no connection to the supplier, other than being a happy customer, so please take this post accordingly.  For all those in the same boat, starting afresh and wondering how to add a little style and panache to the layout, I would personally recommend Modelu figures.  And I have no connection to the supplier. I'm just a happy customer!...

On 13/09/2020 at 14:16, lapford34102 said:

 

Hi MoonMonkey,

I'll do my best but June seems a lifetime ago.

The cab comes of in one bit to fit the decoder but is in 3 pieces; cab front,sides and roof, the bunker and floor. The front/bunker join is in line with bunker top. Being daft I dug the floor out. Mine looked to be "spot welded" in with glue and came out with a little presuasion (!). There are a couple of tabs on the floor, obvious when you look, that seem important at keeping front and back together. With the floor out things start looking a bit wobbly but fine with care. Crew in then reassembled though I didn't glue the floor back in and it seems fine.

 

As for the weathering hardly a pearl of wisdom, in fact I should've checked before tapping away. No idiot like a etc etc ! It's  2 parts Metalcote Gunmetal (should have stressed the Metalcote originally) 1 part matt Tarmac  and 1 part matt leather  for the body.  The leather can be varied a bit. I've also used a dark earth which is probably similar to a tarmac/leather mix. Apply as much or as little as needed. Even a light dusting is effective in "killing" the factory finish. I don't know if you've used Metalcote before but when dry you can buff then to give a metallic shine. For con rods, etc he uses Metalcote steel and gloss tan. Personally I've found this rather harder so maybe need more practice.

Have you had a look at his website  https://www.martynwelch.com/

Anything more please ask or PM but hope this helps rather than hinders :-) Have a play on something unimportant and see how it goes. Weathering is an art and people develop their own styles and preferences. There's lots of different techniques, materials, effects etc but no one right answer.

Cheers

Stu

Hi Stu, thanks on both counts... I'll look at giving it a go!

On 13/06/2020 at 16:45, lapford34102 said:

Then the weathering using Martyn Welch’s time honoured mix of Humbrol’s Gunmetal and Leather plus a modicum of washes and powders

Hi Stu,

You mention "Then the weathering using Martyn Welch’s time honoured mix of Humbrol’s Gunmetal and Leather plus a modicum of washes and powders".  Is this specifically relating to the wheels/rods?  I'll have a look for the book, but in the meantime it would be great to receive a little clarification on that particular pearl of wisdom.   

Also... I'm looking to pop some crew into my one of these.  Did you find an easier way than trying to fit them through the door aperture and holding in place while the glue dries in  a hopefully convincing position?  I couldn't quite tell if the cab roof comes off or something. 

On 18/08/2020 at 17:39, ahardy said:

The last few months have been incredibly busy - I apologise for the lack of updates. 

 

However its now been a year since our first industrial loco body kits were released and we have come a long way since with many happy customers! What would you like to see next?

 

 

Hi, I just stumbled across this range, looks good.  I like the WW2-era wartime figures.  If you are looking for ideas for new additions... I'm thinking of populating a carriage or platform with some military types, suitable for 1944-45.  The standing people you have look good.  But how about some seated people in uniform?  That would add to the options??  

18 minutes ago, micklner said:

These are very similar

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/35731/K9001-DJ-Models-Fire-Iron-Accessory-Pack

 

247 are cheaper .

Thanks for the observations about the fire irons.  Now you point it out, they do look pretty thick diameter.  I'll have a look a those etched ones. 

I imaging that brass wire would be easy enough for two of them if I fancied some DIY.  The shovel though would take me right back to making 1:12th dolls house brass&copper miniatures when I was a kid.  I had smaller fingers then (having grown up since) and the skill-of-hand was there.  It's an interesting thought though.  If I do go down that route (although time pressure from elsewhere will probably conspire against me) I'll post about it here in future.  

2 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Yes, that's it with the GW pricker bar on top, why the other companies did not have a bar like this is anyone's guess, great for getting through clinker and lifting it up. 

That's great, thanks Blandford1969 for taking  a look and confirming.  I just need to get some coal sorted now.  And keep on top of the pesky oil tidemark! 

On 30/06/2020 at 14:38, Blandford1969 said:

Looks great, I should have said the hoops go over the spike sticking up so that they stay put when you are trying to get a higher one out and I suppose if you had a crash they would be less likely to come flying forwards. 

 

Once you are used to it you can swing them round very quickly. the are the best way as when they come out and a red hot you want to get them as far away from you, as quickly as possible!

 

Hello - well that took a while for me to get back onto RMWEB.  Thanks for the insights about footplate fire irons,  From your description, presumably they should be more like this (noting the obvious lack of coal, still!)...

On 17/06/2020 at 21:44, MoonMonkey said:

Hi Duncan, that's great, very many thanks.  I'll paint them, and place them accordingly once the weathering and coal and crew are sorted.  

Hi Duncan and Jason, 

Thanks for your help with my query about fire irons.  I had a go at repainting and placing them on the tender with the looped handle over the u-shaped bracket.   Do these look about right?  

(Please excuse the one-handed driver, pretend it's a magic trick he is showing the fireman!).  

Hi Mick Bonwick, thanks for your help with the oily tidemark in the weathering powder, your info was most helpful.  I wasn't able to find IPA but dd some experimentation of my own... I learned quite a bit so I've done  a brain dump into this link  

     It might be useful if anyone else has problems with weathering powders and oily residue/tidemark.  

Hi all, I did some research into coal - initially for tenders but then more about wagons.  Now I never thought I'd write those words before I signed up to RMWeb. It seems to me that the sizes varied in wagons, and locos through the ages, so there is probably a prototype for many sizes/grades of modelled material.  That ties in with the really helpful comments on this forum.  I guess the look is more important than a specific grade of modelled coal.  The Gaugemaster stuff is shiny and I gather that real coal is like that.  The Javis stuff is, I believe, more matt and brown like coke.  Personally, I'll give the Gaugemaster stuff a go and see how it looks.  I did think the video in this link might be useful on some level, if only about how to start a domestic fire using paper splints.  There are also some links to photos online that may be useful/inspirational.  

Great Pathe video:  

Other photos if you haven't seen them already 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrw384a.htm

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/684265737107326430/

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/434527064032743786/?amp_client_id=amp-HxZUPQmMq_ybKONESOtvWw&mweb_unauth_id=e4f09d13eff34660b1034f555ee50fc4

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/coal-wagons-in-the-sidings-of-the-london-midland-and-news-photo/613476494

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

My coal is real, Welsh, and until last year was from a lump mined by myself at Big Pit, Blaenafon, a quarter of a century or so ago.  It ran out and I was very kindly given another lump mined from the same source by Tomparrishharry of this parry, which will probably last until I shuffle off my mortal coil and head for the great operating session in the sky...

 

Real coal was screened for size at the collieries, and available in a variety of lump sizes.  Loco coal was ideally fist size as has been stated, but at most sheds was whatever the railway could get, and larger lumps which could be broken up on the footplate adding to the poor fireman's work were probably better than dusty small coal which could easily block the airflow and draw of the fire.  I had a cab ride in 1966 on Lord Rowallan and employed myself in breaking large boulders; the tender was full of useless small coal interspersed with the boulders, and the fireman, a Kingmoor passed cleaner not much older than me, had never fired anything bigger than a Black 5 on local trip work.  This was of course at the end of steam when conditions had got pretty rough, but it had I think been a long time, possible before the war, since decent sized loco coal was guaranteed even at big main line depots; certainly poor coal seems a common thread in footplate tales from the period.

 

I'm old enough to remember house coal, delivered in sacks, and accompanying mother down to the merchant's office to order it at the ex TVR Salisbury Road yard in Cardiff.  There were, at least as I recall, 5 grades on offer, small or large cobbles, small cobbles being about fist size , and small or large nuts, which were smaller and tended to be anthracite, and more expensive but produced less smoke. Then there was nutty slack, which was a bit cheaper and contained a lot more 'small coal'.  You could specify a mixture if you liked, and the merchant would fill the sacks accordingly.  People tended to go for what experience suggested burned best and most cost effectively in their grates, which of course varied in size and shape.

 

I'm not sure how this related to commercial grading of coal, but commercial customers similarly ordered blends that suited their own needs best, so an urban gasworks might, for instance, use a different blend of coal to, say, a forge, or a factory with belt driven machinery.  Blends could be from different pits, or even different seams in the same pit.  These coals would have different calorific content, gas content, smoke producing qualities, acidity, sulpher content, and so on, and industrial boilers were built to burn specific types.  It's not just black rocks, you know...

Thanks Johnster, that matches with some of the images I found online.  I do remember my mother being over the moon when the coal fire (and therefore the dust) was taken out of the family home and replaced with some new-fangled electric thing.  The coal outhouse (next to the bog outhouse) was then knocked down some years later for a concreted yard and a small raised veg bed.  Progress indeed before computers turned up.  

17 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

To me it looks to be a little on the large side. The “black book”’ says that coal for firing an engine should be about the size of a man’ fist. Ok, you would have to break some up, but you wouldn’t have time to break it all up. As an aside, big lump under the firehole door can be ideal.
 

Take a look on Flickr and search for “NCB coal wagon. In amongst a lot of irrelevant photos, you will find a fair few photos that show the size did vary, but was generally finer than you have there. 
 

Roy

Thanks Roy.  I had a look around Google for images of coal from that era, some great ones exist of wagons with varying sizes / grades (not all in the same one though).  There are also images of locos with coal - some from ye olden days with what appear to be boulder sized pieces.  Coal in tenders does seem to vary in size somewhat.  I think I'll have a go at crushing it up a little and going with the Gaugemaster stuff unless it shatters into dust.  

16 hours ago, Graham Radish said:

As long as its not overscaled (and a lot of them are) should be sound fella, i know a hell of a lot of the track ballasts are massively overscaled and look horrid, just found this video for you, hope you like it.

 

 

Thanks Graham, interesting video... I also noticed how 'un-dirty' the wagons were, I'd assumed they'd be muckier especially in  a colliery, although they are metal not wooden planks, so maybe not a direct read-across to discolouration of 1940s plank wagons.  I was looking at images I found in google searches, the coal does seem to vary in size, in wagons and tenders.  I think I might crush up the Gaugemaster stuff a bit and see how that looks in a tender before trying real coal.     

9 hours ago, teaky said:

Wickes? (£3 for 10kg)

Wickes?  I shall take a look... I hadn't thought of that, must be head going mushy during lockdown.  Thanks for the direction.  

On 17/06/2020 at 19:00, nickwood said:

Hi Moon Monkey and welcome to RMWeb and my thread. Thanks for your kind comments and I’m pleased to hear that my efforts have been of some entertainment to you. 
With my last remaining outing of the year, Warley, being postponed today, Much Murkle will spend the remaining months of this year crated up in the garage.

Here's to the 'in person' exhibitions coming back again.  I'm fingers crossed for more exhibitions next year.  Although if we all have to wear face masks, we are going to look like a bunch of ninjas.  I wonder who will be first to get some face-masked characters at 2m intervals on their layout?  I have to say that it isn't on my modelling wishlist! 

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

I've you've got a few hours spare have a look through this. Loads of photos of GWR tenders with some showing the correct way to store fireirons.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-tenders.html

 

The bunker hooks are for Tank engines and fitted on the rear of the bunker. With the fireirons stored on them. Quite often the bucket will be suspended from one of the hooks.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/nopanniers.html

 

 

 

Jason

Hi Jason, very many thanks.  The links are great... I'd found the website in general but not those pages.  I'll save the bunker hooks for a tank engine I still have in  a box and awaiting introduction to the layout.  

8 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

The fire irons go with the handles over the U shaped bracket as you mentioned, so they are easy access. They don't stay straight for long!

 

The bucket is normally in the corner often on the fireman's side up by the backhead with water in it. Many put a spanner in the water as it reduces the water sploshing around and coming out of the bucket. 

 

The irons have a sort of dark rusty look certainly the shovel.  Normally you would want the pricker bar (the one in the middle) on the top as its the most often used for breaking the clinker up and getting air through. Prickers were less common on other railways compared to the Wessy and they are wonderful things. 

 

Hope that helps

 

Best wishes

 

Duncan

Hi Duncan, that's great, very many thanks.  I'll paint them, and place them accordingly once the weathering and coal and crew are sorted.  

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help with this?  I have a pack of Dart Castings "L122: LOCO FIRE IRONS (3 PLUS BUCKET) Finescale, set of 3 with bunker hooks and bucket for Tank Locomotives" as per photo.  I also have a Dean Goods loco (era is supposed to be 1945 GWR) as per t'uther photo.  I have no idea where the 3 fire irons and bunker hooks would go, although I'm hazarding a guess that the longer tools would go in the trough alongside the coal bunker supported at one end by the u-shaped bracket. I also guess the bucket would go somewhere out of the way in the cab.   I'd like to get some semblance of realism.  I'd be grateful if anyone knows how they would go and illuminate me accordingly.  I don't think there is an existing thread on the topic, but if so please point me that way if you like.  Many thanks in advance if anyone reads this!  

Hi, I have a bag of Gaugemaster 'coal' as I've used it in some wagons, but no actual coal fire, nor a coal merchants nearby that I'm aware of.  Does anyone have a view on how realistic the Gaugemaster 'coal' is how close it comes to the real thing?  I attach a photo of the wagons with the Gaugemaster product for reference if you haven't used it yourself.  I'm thinking of loading up the coal on a Dean Goods loco with it.  Period is WW2 so I gather there is more leeway in the quality of prototype coal that was used around this time.  I'd be grateful for any (constructive!!!) thoughts on this product...

56 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Your weathering has presented the excess oil inside the body an opportunity to use capillary action to spread itself all over the body. The only way to prevent this is to thoroughly clean all excess oil and grease from the mechanism and thoroughly clean the inside of the bodywork before you start weathering.

 

 

Bachmann Tidemark Warning.pdf 238.34 kB · 3 downloads

 

 

Thanks Mick, that's most helpful.  Now you've pointed that out, it does have the look of an oily residue, and my model does look just like the images in your PDF.  I shall look into isopropyl alcohol (IPA) although an initial web search suggest this is rare stuff now due to some coronavirus-related purpose.  I suspect it will need a removal of the loco body (which I gather can be a bit tricky if the screws are stuckfast from the factory assembly process).  Hmmm.  I shall see how it goes.  I might also apply a coat of varnish to the inside of the body to try and seal it against further oil egress.  I wonder in future if an initial few coats of the spray varnish will seal the body gaps before applying powders, or if the sprayed on varnish is actually porous too.  If I learn anything meaningful I'll post it back up here.  Thanks again! 

Hi Nick, I finally signed up to RMWeb after following the Much Murkle thread and a few others for the last few (6+) months.  I also had the pleasure of seeing it at some exhibitions.   I just wanted to say that your layout has been an inspiration for me to actually 'model' something rather than just have a train set.  While my bank account and free time have taken a hit, it's been thoroughly enjoyable especially during this period of 'lockdown', so many thanks, and keep up the fantastic work, it isn't wasted!!!  

Hi KNP, I finally signed up to RMWeb after following this thread and a few others for the last few (6+) months.  I just wanted to say that your layout with your journal of progress and thoughts and humour, have been an inspiration for me to actually 'model' something rather than just have a train set.  While my bank account and free time have taken a hit, it's been thoroughly enjoyable especially during this period of 'lockdown', so many thanks, and keep up the fantastic work, it isn't wasted!!!  

Hi, I just signed up to RMWeb to ask about weathering powders interacting with spray varnish, having come to railway modelling again recently.  I just found this current thread, hopefully this doesn't count as hijacking it!  I have a problem... I managed to get the powders to stick (a combination of Humbrol and Mig), and I then used coats of Humbrol matt spray varnish to seal the powder.  I've already tried this on wagons and had no problem.  But I then braved it and went for a Dean Goods loco (Oxford Rail but with new transfers and plates to go for a GWR wartime black look).  After the powder/varnish dried, I ended up with what looks like a water mark in some places.  I wondered if it was because I'd applied too much varnish in a layer.  So I let it all dry and applied another coat of powder to 'hide' the stain, re-varnished, and it looked ok.  Then the next morning, same again.  I'm not sure if the patch is expanding like some sort of creeping death for my weathering, or if it is now stable.  But before I just try the same 'hide and varnish' routine, has anyone else got any idea about this?  I've put a red ring around the areas in the pics attached.  Am I doing something wrong entirely?  It might be that the patches are passable as prototypical where water has washed the dirt,  although the layout is supposed to be mid-summer.  Any help would be gratefully received.