reddragon

Gaugemaster DCC90 - works on other similar units

I have just bought an NSE liveried 4-VEP.

I tested it on DC and all worked fine.

I fitted the DC chip. CV17 = 193, CV18= 167 (hence ID #423) and CV29 = 34

It drives correctly. F0 operates the directional end lights but the internal lights do not work on F1 as described. Any ideas?

Could I have loosened the connector to the lights maybe?

I'm going to hard wire in a decoder & remove the socket.

41 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Is it the earlier non DCC Ready Blue Rapier or the several later DCC Ready versions with a socket, as the pcbs are totally different in these variants.

 

I suspect a short on the socket if DCC Ready or an overload of the function outputs if not.

DCC ready, I just used the 8 pin plug

Everything was tested, running DC only was fine, power car alone failed on DCC 1st time and as a unit the 2nd time.

Time 1. Chip fitted to power car only. Ran alone on test OK, but no lights. Tried to turn on lights but when I pressed F0 it died.

Went to repair man who checked it on DC, then DCC and ran it for a while OK with dummy - lights OK. Brought it home and tested it as a 6-car unit and lights OK.

It is a pain to drive as deceleration is very slow to respond. After throttle is off, it continues on full power for 2 unit lengths before it starts to slow!

Time 2, first run on Roco Z21 ran out OK with power car at rear with lights on dummy. Return trip it just stopped dead.

The power & dummy have no links other than via the track. The dummy chip is fine. No shorts were detected by the command unit.

The lights do seem to be an issue on DCC - any ideas how? My repair man is at a loss.

1 hour ago, MarkK said:

I'm not over familiar with the model, but would I be correct in saying it utilises two decoders?  Presumably one for motor power and lighting and the other for lighting alone.   Does the second decoder work the lights on  the dummy car only ?  

There is a decoder in the dummy which works just the lights. The power car has fried 2 decoders so far. Both have the same ID.

I did wonder that, but the chip has a 1.5A rating, 2A max. The command unit didn't detect a short either.

The first DCC chip I fitted was to my Hornby class 395. I fitted it, run it backwards, then forwards, then pressed F0 and it stopped, dead chip!

OK, maybe as a newbie I messed up, so I took it to a train repair man at my local model shop. He tested the loco, found no defects and fitted a new chip. After a few runs, again whilst running power car first it stopped dead, lights & power off, but the dummy is fine with lights on.

Any ideas?

I have some older Hornby diesel locos where I fitted a second motor so that they could actually pull a decent load.

Any advice on what decoder power limits I'd need of issues to consider before I fit a chip? They have directional lighting too.

Thanks everyone, I have chosen to switch to the Roco Z21 set up.

15 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

To avoid confusion and misunderstandings, it might be useful to learn a little of the terminology.

It's not jargon, in the negative sense, but if you read up on the subject and grasp the simple basic principles, you might see why using correct terminology not only helps in conversation and reading on the subject, but also helps to reinforce your own understanding.

 

Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it. 

 

There is really no such thing as a "Master", or "Slave units".

Best not to use that sort of language anyway, as you might find yourself getting into hot water and "getting your collar felt", the way things are going.

What you need is a DCC system, with its central component part, the Command Station.

All DCC systems come with a Command Station and most have a Booster built-in. The system won't work without them and both are inside your Elite.

You already have this and a replacement DCC system will have them too.

Additional Boosters can be added if they are needed.

 

How you interface with the system (control or drive the trains) is through a cab or throttle (what in DC terms we normally call a controller), which can be built-in to a console type system, like your Elite (which has two); or through handsets (tethered or wireless).

Normally, addition throttles can be added to a system, so that multiple users can operate on the layout at the same time.

The Elite is at a bit of a loss here, because the additional throttles are usually Hornby Selects, which when connected up to an Elite for this purpose, would have their Command Station and Booster functions disabled, so you would just be using the throttle interface. Not ideal as they are too cumbersome to carry around.

 

Use your Elite and as your experience and knowledge grows, have a look at what alternative systems can do and how they can be expanded and arranged to best suit the particular layout and how it's going to be operated.

 

As far as books go, unfortunately a lot of the good books on the subject have been out of print for ages.

Here are a few that are worth hunting down.

Your local library may be able to source these from their central county or district wide catalogue.

 

 

 

   

 

   

 

 

 

.

£361.27 on Amazon!

9 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Just to add to the thread.   The layout described (5 loops) is not "large" on the grand scheme of things.  

 

The layout needs one command station, and perhaps a second booster (though I'd start without, just wire it so the booster can be added).   It does need district cut-outs to limit problems to sub-sections of the layout.  

 

And I concur with the comments about not having Hornby, Bachmann or Gaugemaster near the top of my list of brands to buy DCC elements from. 

 

 

 

The 5 loops have around 50m of track each, plus sidings and sub branches. I will operate up to 10 trains at once, MUs might include more than one power car. No idea what counts as Large?

I have around 130m of track down so far and I'm not half way around yet!

Maybe I'll only need 1 booster 

As expected, 101 opinions!

I get it that I need 1 master, and some power boosters & slave units.

I will stick with the Hornby Elite until I outgrow it.

If I was to choose a DCC master system, which ones do you consider 'Good', 'great value', 'avoid' and the same for chips (including sub groups of) so that I can make an informed choice.

Also, is there a good book to read & learn how to do this?

thanks

46 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

You only need a single master station whatever the size of layout. So one Elite and boosters if needed (although, as above, I'd really look at a "better" DCC system from one of the companies that specialise in DCC equipment) 

 

Andi

 

 

Everyone seems to claim that their system is 'better', but most look to me anyway to be quite dated. There is probably a need for something more modern across the board on DCC control in my opinion.

I have around 60 locos. half of which I need to replace as they cannot be converted or are not worth it. I will probably stay below 100 locos.

I am getting gaugemaster decoders, as they seem to be quite good although I have 4 Hornby ones that work.

I have kept the layout fairly simple as in separated sections, but complex track layouts within a section.

3 operators, controlling 2 locos at any one time and I do not want automation.

I have a large layout which I am converting from DC to DCC. I am building 5 separate loops of track about 50m long, plus sidings & depots.

So far, I have one pair of tracks connected to a single Hornby Elite, covering about half the loop, 2x 25m sections and plan to add a power & signal booster for the other half, 2x 25m sections to complete 2 of the loops. For the other 3 sections, which are electrically isolated from the first 2, should I use a separate Elite or add several cheaper Select controllers, with signal & power boosters? I also intend to use Railmaster to control points / signals etc.

So far I have converted 6 locos, so no power issue yet, but as I gradually convert the railway it will become an issue!

Am I on the right path or are there better options?

Should I consider trying a different system on other tracks or  just stick to my choice? 

35 minutes ago, johnb said:

I regularly run  a set of Bachmann 2EPBs paired and also a Hornby 2HAL/2BIL combo using the same DCC address for each motor in a pair. The decoders in each pair are also the same model and version number. The EPB set uses Lenz Silver minis and the HAL/BIL set uses TCS EU621s both were just plugged and run well as pairs without any further adjustment.

Using different manufacturers motors and different decoders within a set may well require some adjustments to get similiar speed/acceleration for each one of a pair.

 

I have no experience of using Hornby or Gaugemaster decoders in any of my stock

 

John

Thank you, that is exactly what I plan to do with pairs of 2-car units

Hornby Elite and a mix of Hornby & Gaugemaster chips. The pair will be the same motor type

If I run 2 multiple units together, can I give them the same DCC address so that they run as a pair?

I am only going to fit a £3 harness and add a basic DCC chip.

I will save sound for something more suited based on advice

Is it possible or easy to fit a DCC chip on a Wrenn class 08.

I know the space is tight but I am also worried the Wrenn locos pull a lot of power too

I do not consider learning how to solder a £3 harness into a very good Lima loco a waste of time, money  & effort. I can add or remove DCC or sound easily. I will not let the kids drive and new high cost locos, so Lima do the job.

I have lots of 'cheap' Lima Locos that were much better than anything else around in the 1980's-90s. Hornby Locos couldn't pull the skin off a custard and Bachmann / Mainline / Airfix locos fell to pieces. Of my old Locos, ALL my Lima work, I have had to use old HST power cars for motors to make my Hornby locos twin motor to pull anything and my Mainline / Airfix / Bachmann I have to use with care. My old Wrenn are excellent but need a lot of servicing to be reliable.

So the answer to my original question was Sound in an old Lima is not worth it and will over time buy newer DCC locos

1 minute ago, cravensdmufan said:

Please let us know how you get on with this.

 

I'm thinking of fitting sound to my Lima Class 156 (additional pick ups from the wheels of the trailer car have been fitted so it never stalls and cars linked with micro plug) and I've hard wired it for DCC. Runs beautifully, But as far as sound is concerned I have yet to bite the bullet! 

Having just taken apart a few Lima Locos I discovered that: -

The oldest (1980's) have a wire to a clip at the trailer end and a short uninsulated wire from the power bogie  to motor. These will need power capacitors to be reliable.

Later models (1990's) have a second wire to the trailer bogie so should work better but still have an uninsulated motor bogie connector

The last models moved on with better connectors and insulated motor bogie wires

The 156 I have is a bit of a wreck, that does not run and has no power bogie. The body is OK though

I have watched a video on how to do it and have concluded that sound will not be worth it. If I try one, it will be on the basis of moving it later to something quieter.

Thanks for your advice.

I have decided to add a harness, so I can change chips later. I am going to start on an older one with a chip + capacitor, as Lima get dirty quickly.

Is it worth adding DCC sound in a Lima diesel?

As they are quite noisy, will you actually hear the DCC sound or will it be drowned out the the motor?