1andrew1

It will be interested to see if WonderWorks is rolled out in conjunction with Frasers Group. With space in shopping centres and a move to leisure provision in them, there could be an opportunity but I think it will be limited to a handful of big UK cities.

6 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Blacks were a failing outdoor retailer but allowed them to consolidate market share in that sector, and they already had expertise in dealing with surplus retail property etc so fitted well into their existing activities.

I think a lot of your hypothesis makes sense. Small point of accuracy - Blacks went into administration and was acquired by JD Sports. Sports Direct did have a 30% stake in Blacks but failed to acquire the company.

27 minutes ago, micklner said:

Or with 9%  he seems to be quitely taking over via the back door . Access to all systems etc etc , of course he is'nt charging for all of this !! How kind of Mr Ashley 🤬

Fraser Group's 8.9% Hornby stake is substantial but Hornby is currently well and truly controlled by Phoenix who own a whopping 73.4% of the company.  It could be that Ashley is a bit bored having handed over managing Frasers Group to his son-in-law, and he certainly doesn't need the money!

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

I hope he kicks some ar5e.

In this video at 13:47, an Airfix retailer who is a critical friend of Hornby Hobbies describes how the company is difficult to order from with no online portal. This would seem a priority for the new management to tackle.

This could be good news for improving Hornby's systems and logistics.

Quote

Mike Ashley has entered into a consultancy agreement with Hornby through Mash Holdings Ltd (a company wholly owned by Mike Ashley). Mike will be available to support Olly Raeburn, CEO of Hornby, and the wider business, particularly in relation to systems, operations, logistics and, where relevant, broader matters of strategy.

This approach is aligned to Fraser Group's policy of partnering with strategic investments in order to add value for the respective shareholders of Hornby and Fraser Group. No remuneration is payable to Mash by Frasers or Hornby for these consultancy services.

https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/wv4d40w

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

After the "Olympic Tat" debacle, I heard it from more than one trade contact that Hatton's reduced Hornby's unsold inventory mountain to the tune of £8m to restore cashflow where there was none, but had politely declined an invitation to take over the business. 

 

Hornby's announcement on the end of tiering was made public almost simultaneously with Hatton's one of their closure. Almost certainly too late to engender a change of plans.

 

Hatton's had certainly lost all their Hornby pre-orders when Tiering began, because nobody in their right mind would take the gamble on being in line for one of the token box of six that Hatton's would get on release. The days of "more than 10" were well-and-truly gone until something failed to sell.

 

To help compensate, I began placing all other pre-orders with Hatton's (except Bachmann obviously). I also started raiding their pre-owned pages regularly. Five (Hornby) Bulleid Pacifics for not much more than the price of two new ones, in the past two years.  😊😊😊😊😊

 

Sorry, I know thousands of you think Hornby can do no wrong, despite (commercially) seldom getting much right over the past two decades. The repeats of the soap opera have just become a terminal bore and I've ceased to give a toss what happens to them.

 

I once averaged a minimum spend of two grand a year on Hornby products. I've currently one coach and one loco pre-order still outstanding, that I'll be honouring. After that, I'll be avoiding anything in red boxes that's not indispensable to my plans.    

 

If the latest management re-earn Hornby's right to be the biggest name in the hobby, I will reconsider, but I'm not holding my breath. As things stand, we've lost the less dispensable "H", IMHO. 

 

Grumpy old git mode "off".

 

John

Rumours always float around and can be circular in nature and shared in good faith. 
 

In this instance, the facts don't seem to bear out the rumour. Hattons' total costs in y/e June 2013 were £8.5m. It ended the year with stocks of just under £2.6m and started the year with stocks of just over £2.6m. (Similar figures apply to y/e June 2012 and y/e June 2014).

Hattons announced its closure in January 2024 and Tiering ended in November 2023. Plenty of time to decide not to close the business at that stage. After all, Hattons didn't seem to have any plans for who would purchase its moulds or brand name in January when it announced its closure.

I doubt few think Hornby can do no harm commercially. I think many are aware it's a hard business to make money in, as the history of European and US brands and most recently Hattons bears testimony to.

24 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

From the Rails website:

So, who is "the manufacturer"?

I assume they're talking about third-party brands like Hornby and Dapol here. If you've purchased a Hattons-branded product from Hattons then I think you've hit a brick wall.  Current mould owners Accurascale or Rails may be able to sell you a spare part.

On 13/03/2024 at 21:59, Dunsignalling said:

 

Fair enough.

 

The elephant that's been tramping around the room since all this started.

 

If there was a prime cause behind Hatton's demise, one word: Hornby.

 

Despite Hatton's saving them from bankruptcy at least once, they were put into Tier 3 and supplied with so little new stock that nobody could reliably pre-order anything from them any more.

 

That will have done their turnover more damage than Brexit and Covid combined. 

 

John

I'm not sure there's any actual evidence that Hattons saved Hornby from bankruptcy. If there was, we would have seen it reported and Hornby would have had to disclose it.

We know that Hattons disposed of the Hornby Dublo stock when Lines Brothers acquired Meccano and there are strong indications that Hattons may have acquired large stocks of slow-selling lines from various manufacturers at advantageous prices. But neither of these equates to saving Hornby from bankruptcy.

Hattons' decision to shut up shop in an orderly fashion was taken after Hornby's unpopular Tier system was abolished.  We don't know if Hattons felt it had permanently lost a base of customers because of this or that most had returned.

On 12/03/2024 at 23:03, Pmorgancym said:

Acquiring 'stock' that's your product that you already sold to them a year earlier??

Did Hornby sell them the stock? I thought the Corgi Model Club just licensed the brand and the designs from Hornby and did their own sourcing. From their website "Hornby have given us the exclusive rights to re-produce some of the rarest and sought after models from their 1960’s catalogues."

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

IHornby is just a company, just a name, its not set in stone that it as a company exists to serve super detailed modellers…if it found profit in being a Bakery… then a Bakery it should become.

 

And let's not forget that the original Hornby brand owner diversified into model cars and trains from its primary business of Meccano.

From Hornby's website

Quote

The management of CMC is joining Hornby, with Guy Stainthorpe appointed as the Brand MD of Corgi.

CMC was established in 2021 as a third party partnership with Hornby, creating and selling contemporary editions of classic Corgi Models from the archives through a monthly subscription model, and has grown significantly since then.

Through the purchase of £400,000 of existing stock from CMC, which will be sold directly to Hornby customers in the future, and an additional consideration of c. £200,000, Hornby is adding c.£2M of revenue at a 15% operating margin and more than 6,000 active subscribers. A performance-related earnout has been put in place for Guy, payable based on the future profitability of both CMC and the wider Corgi business over the next three years. An earn out is payable to Jim (entrepreneur behind the club) based on profitability of CMC over 3 years from acquisition.

 

https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/rn44ojx

Interestingly, the Corgi Model Club also distributes Dinky Toys although most stocks seem to be exhausted.

https://corgimodelclub.com/pages/dinky001

Likely a coincidence, but the front web page for Corgi Premiums now looks like this. Sofa.com is a Frasers brand. 

Another update to the ModelTrainStuff.com webpage, below

(The Facebook page hasn't been updated suggesting the new owners of the website don't have access to it yet.)

1 hour ago, The Meerkat said:

i 100& agree that if Hornby went the hobby would manage quite well without them  

 

but he bad news with everything he touches or owns

Mike Ashley has stepped back from managing Frasers but he's the company's biggest investor. 

Whilst he sounds a pain to be in charge of a football club, Frasers has rescued many high street businesses that might have closed if he hadn't acquired them eg Sofa.com, Game, Gieves & Hawkes and Evans.

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Thought they'd killed it off 'once existing stocks are exhausted', maybe they found these in a corner of the warehouse / production slot already committed.

Autumn 2024 release so not manufactured yet. The track colour has also changed from red to grey. I think if a production slot had been committed, they would not have announced the range was being discontinued until after the last shipment. 

I think it's possible they've had a change of heart.

Looks like Game could become a more important outlet for Hornby. Not a scenario I would have predicted. Maybe Game are the future partner for more WonderWorks?

Share price now up to 29p.

Quote

Mike Ashley’s retail empire Frasers Group has significantly increased its stake in model railways manufacturer Hornby.

The owner of Sports Direct and House of Fraser has acquired more than 11 million shares in the Kent-based company, taking its total holdings to more than 15 million, or 8.9 per cent.

More than 70 per cent of Hornby’s shares are held by Phoenix Asset Management Partners, with Artemis Investment Management the next largest shareholder on 16.2 per cent.

The investment from Frasers Group means it is now Hornby’s third largest shareholder.

Chris Wootton, CFO of Frasers Group, said: “Frasers Group has a vision to build the planet’s most admired and compelling brand ecosystem.

“Hornby’s portfolio of unique heritage brands are already part of Game’s product offer and we look forward to exploring opportunities to further leverage our scale in retail logistics and distribution.

“This is consistent with our strategy of pursuing strategic interests to enhance value for all stakeholders.”

Olly Raeburn, CEO of Hornby, added: “Frasers Group has built a powerful ecosystem through its brand partners, scaled shared services, and distribution channels.

“We have long admired their approach to merchandising and logistics and welcome them as a supportive shareholder.

“We look forward to exploring commercial opportunities in working together to unlock the full potential of Hornby’s much loved brands.”

https://www.cityam.com/mike-ashleys-frasers-group-significantly-ups-stake-in-model-trains-maker-Hornby/

That's a very good send-off. And quite a humble comment from Richard "I am very sorry my best wasn't good enough to maintain Hattons success."

7 hours ago, 2E Sub Shed said:

If it was Mainline you were after, model shop in Swindon seemed to be able to sell new boxed Mainline well in to 2010's, I was told they bought the entire factory stock at closure, not sure if true.

Is this a reference perhaps to Replica who marketed the Kader-produced parts of the Mainline range until Kader did it itself under the Bachmann brand in 1991? They're now based in Swindon but at the time were in Lambourn, Berkshire. 

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/menusep5/menucomhist

16 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

Interesting point of view. Retailers doing deals for overstocks or suppliers clearing their warehouses of slow moving inventory?

 

Most people are of the view that Bachmann won’t be affected. When Hattons stopped being able to supply Bachmann, you would be forgiven for thinking that our Bachmann sales would have increased. They didn’t. Bachmann  appeared  to reduce the quantity of items that were manufactured. Sold out became the order of the day. Hypothetically, with the main retailer leaving the market, does that leave the likes of our shop with an increase in say PECO, Dapol, Gaugemaster demand? Money is finite so do l have to spend even less with Bachmann in order to finance the purchases from other suppliers. 
 

As Osborne Models state, ‘interesting time’s ahead’.

 I can appreciate why Bachmann might have been risk averse and reduced production run volumes; they could anticipate Hattons' customers spending more on non-Bachmann brands as these are what Hattons would promote. 

But I would have expected  a lot of Bachmann spend to have been re-directed to other big box retailers, along with non-Bachmann accessories. This reduction in sales would likely have contributed to Hattons deciding to close. 

Hornby Share price up to 21p. 

4 hours ago, Gridiron said:

 

 

The vehicle already exists  albeit as a dormant company.... 

 

 

 

 

Accounting seems to coincide with the tax year, so perhaps it could start trading from 06 Apr 2024?

 

As customers contracted with Hattons Model Railways Limited Company No 5131251 that's the relevant entity in question and it's that company's responsibility for ensuring that orders are fulfilled, even if the admin for the orders is contracted out to a third party.
 

Whether the company gets wound up is a matter for the owners and there's a long and official process for this.  It could even be renamed and be used to do something else eg write software for model shops. 

On 25/01/2024 at 23:00, andyman7 said:

However, when Palitoy themselves were shut down by the parent company General Mills, it was Dapol who were then just starting out that purchased the Airfix stock and tooling as well as the Mainline tooling that was not owned by Kader.

Just a slight correction on General Mills. It did not close down Palitoy. General Mills decided to float its toy and games division as a separate company under the name Kenner Parker in 1985. Palitoy and sister companies like Miro-Meccano  in France were rebranded as Kenner Parker too.

General Mills decided Kenner Parker should not be in the hobby sector so it sold off its hobby brands. These included Lionel Trains in the US and of course Mainline, Airfix and Meccano in Europe. 

Hattons is no big corporate and is 79% owned by one person, Richard Davies. So there wouldn't be the level of due diligence you'd see in the corporate world where the shareholders are distinct from management.

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Weird

Hattons looking for presence in US

Find a warehouse

Buy M B Klein (a similar type of business)

M B Klein goes internet only and moves to new location  (Hatton's Warehouse?)

Hatton's to close (maybe relocating core business to US?)

M B Klein closed

 

Unless a new Hattons arises from the ashes in the US using MB Klein's assets.

I'm confused.

MB Klein was web only before Hatton's purchased it. I can't see Hatton's restarting under its own name in the US as it is relatively unknown there.